Raleigh Union Station

[Tenkai]

10 minutes ago, Merthecat said:

This area is going to be amazing when Union Station and The Dillon are completed.

& Morgan Street Food Hall.

[RALNATIVE]

Today the N&O ran a very good article on the Union Station development progress:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article149587754.html

 

 

[Jones_]

10 hours ago, RALNATIVE said:

Today the N&O ran a very good article on the Union Station development progress:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article149587754.html

 

 

THIS is what caught my eye in the article 

"Between Union Station and Citrix, GoTriangle hopes to redevelop an old warehouse into a mixed-use tower that serves as a bus station on the ground floor, according to Jeff Mann, GoTriangle’s general manager. The idea is to create a “multi-modal” campus, he said."

I know 'tower' could be like 6 stories, but it's the first I've heard of any renewed push to do anything there. Several immediate thoughts:

- I hope we don't have a just a big bus platform facing West street and that the busses are routed behind some street facing retail like Moore Square

- Speaking of Moore Square, I assume this would separate GoTriangle from GoRaleigh for a very long time since Moore Square transit center was just beautifully redone.

- How would Go-xxx deal with this, since integrating your busses is sort of a bare minimum in future coordinating of coordinating transit modes. I am fresh off a trip to Philly and they have a near perfectly connected system of busses, trolleys, light rail, regional rail, and airport. As a visitor I had it figured out in no time and for my rapidly aging brain that's saying something. Anyway I'd hope they at least put in a free trolley for transfer holders..or free for all as part of a different R-Line route. 

- Please don't touch the building Five Star is in. 

I anxiously await further info especially rough timelines

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Jones_

[Trent Y]

I caught that as well @Jones_

Another similar sized Dillon "like" project would be amazing in that spot. I believe something was mentioned in the article about developing that within the next 36 months. Maybe by the time the Dillon and Union station are completed we'll get a rendering?

[InitialD]

The roof for this plaza area looks really huge up close:

 

[staffer]

RUS status update for legislative committee meeting October 2 in Raleigh (meeting is open to public)

 

http://ncleg.net/documentsites/committees/house2017-187/2017-2019%20Biennium/2017-10-02_Meeting/RaleighUnionStation.pdf

http://ncleg.net/gascripts/DocumentSites/browseDocSite.asp?nID=363&sFolderName=\2017-2019

agenda: http://ncleg.net/documentsites/committees/house2017-187/2017-2019 Biennium/2017-10-02_Meeting/Agenda_2017-10-02.pdf

 

 

[ctl]

It's noteworthy to see how the definition of "Phase II" of RUS has changed. In the 2012 application for federal TIGER money, Phase II was described as the high-speed rail platform, two commuter rail platforms (one adjacent to the Phase I platform, the other on the east leg of the wye between Martin and Hargett), and the concourses to connect those platforms with the station. The 2012 application says "subsequent phases" would include "a bus hub for local, regional and commercial buses, expanded parking facilities, accommodations for taxis, rental car accommodations, connections to light rail providing access to downtown Cary through downtown Raleigh and up to Triangle Town Center, expanded bike facilities, and private development in a series of mixed-use towers for residential and office purposes."

Fast-forward five and a half years. The Southeast High Speed Rail project is moribund. Light rail is off the agenda for the foreseeable future, and commuter rail was postponed while Wake County improves bus service.  Accordingly, in this presentation Phase II has been redefined to mean the bus station, parking, and related structure. Note also that Greyhound apparently has no plans to return to downtown. Intercity bus was part of the original RUS vision. The new Phase II is an intra-city or perhaps an intra-Triangle bus station, not an inter-city station. 

I'm not criticizing the evolution, but don't confuse the new Phase II with the old Phase II.

Edited September 30, 2017 by ctl

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Maybe looking at the “Phase II” site as a duplicate of the Dilion? Demolish and reuse the brick siding, dig down a little, add enough space for buses, and build mixed use on top?

[orulz]

Looks like whatever plan is built here counts on the Hargett grade crossing staying there forever, which sucks. Railroad crossings, particularly slow and busy ones, are death to bus on-time performance. As a frequent rider of the GoTriangle 300 I run into this all the time at Cary Station.

I do see that they are not planning on running buses over the tracks here, so trains won't directly affect bus schedules, but nonetheless, the lack of transit access directly from the west means that this station is more of a detour for whatever bus routes will serve it, rather than being right on the line, which boils down to slower buses.

I was kind of hoping to see the buses here on an upper level, where they could connect to a bridge over the tracks and go THROUGH the station from west to east. This sort of thing WAS included in the original multimodal station study from 2003 or so. Probably dropped in the name of expediency and/or cost.

Count this as sigh #2381 over Union Station not being designed as a real optimized passenger and transit facility. Oh well.

[InitialD]

Kinda wish we could get Megabus to stop in Raleigh as well as Durham. Also, getting off topic but with the mention of Greyhound, I really hope these capital blvd plans include sidewalks. The number of people walking on the shoulder of Capital has spiked since Greyhound moved.

[staffer]

went to the legislative meeting this afternoon. Mayor Nancy spoke 5 minutes, then Roberta Fox and Tom Eatman.  Fox and Eatman never used the phrase "Phase II", and never mentioned SEHSR.  They called phase II "RUS BUS" repeatedly.  It will have 6 or 8 bus bays and will allow the 30% expansion of bus service in the Wake Transit Plan as being the second downtown Bus Hub.  No mention of shuttles between RUS BUS and Moore Square (pardon me "GoRaleigh Station").  The West Street extension under the tracks (design funded by the referendum on the ballot next week) got a brief mention as apparently there will be a West Street BRT route originating at RUS BUS that doesn't require passengers to cross either an active street or RR tracks if they board at RUS BUS. Not sure where it goes after leaving RUS. Western Blvd ? S Wilmington St? New Bern Ave ?

[ctl]

Megabus doesn't load its routes with lots of intermediate stops like Greyhound and Trailways tended to. Their route through Durham hugs I-85, and I doubt they'd want to incur the delay of running that one through Raleigh. On the other hand, they have added a route that runs I-20/I-95 out of Atlanta, serving  Fayetteville. Instead of running I-95 straight from Fayetteville to Richmond, perhaps they could be persuaded to run up I-40 from Benson, stop in Raleigh, and then take  "Future I-87" back to I-95 at Rocky Mount. 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

The NCDOT Rail Division hosted a tour of Union Station this past Monday, October 2. There are some great photos in the link.

[ctl]

I wonder if those stairways are where the escalators were dropped to save money. No doubt there's an elevator somewhere. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by ctl

[Merthecat]

I cannot wait to see the finished product.  This station already looks incredible. 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

If I remember correctly, isn’t the grand opening for this so-called “Union Station” to take place in February 2018?

[ctl]

I don't recall seeing an official announcement, but I think that's the approximate timeframe.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Can someone please remind me of the number of train tracks that are supposed to be “around” the “wye” near Union Station? One on the curve going/bearing left as you approach downtown from the west? And then one more on to the right of the new Union Station? I thought that they would have two around that new platform? One just to the left and one to the right of the new platform? So if you add the newly refurbished one that again curves to the left, then we would have a grand total of three tracks?

I forgot, there is one more track coming east from the Goldsboro area, which brings us to three currently and four in the future?

Edited December 9, 2017 by DwnTwnRaleighGuy
Remembered an east-west train track

[ctl]

Suppose you're on a train headed east (compass direction) from NC State. There are two main tracks between Boylan and Cary. In the new layout at Boylan, a single track diverges to the northeast. This is one leg of the wye. (It was two tracks until early this year.) 

Suppose you're on a train headed northwest (compass direction) from Garner. There is one main track. Just before the Cabarrus St crossing, a single track diverges to the north and runs along the east side of the new station. This is the second leg of the wye. It is, and has always been, a single track.

The trackage past the existing Amtrak station is single track, aside from a siding just before you get to Boylan (this siding is used to access the "Prison" freight yard). This forms the third and final leg of the wye. Eventually there will be three tracks at this point... two for the station and a third for freight. The third track will be relocated to the south a bit after the existing station is demolished. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by ctl

[staffer]

22 hours ago, ctl said:

Suppose you're on a train headed east (compass direction) from NC State. There are two main tracks between Boylan and Cary. In the new layout at Boylan, a single track diverges to the northeast. This is one leg of the wye. (It was two tracks until early this year.) 

Suppose you're on a train headed northwest (compass direction) from Garner. There is one main track. Just before the Cabarrus St crossing, a single track diverges to the north and runs along the east side of the new station. This is the second leg of the wye. It is, and has always been, a single track.

The trackage past the existing Amtrak station is single track, aside from a siding just before you get to Boylan (this siding is used to access the "Prison" freight yard). This forms the third and final leg of the wye. Eventually there will be three tracks at this point... two for the station and a third for freight. The third track will be relocated to the south a bit after the existing station is demolished. 

coming from the prison there are TWO tracks going northeast -- first the NS track (which meets the CSX track at Southern Junction and crosses the mainline at a diamond and heads to Fuquay and points further south) and then the CSX track which wyes with the track that runs on the east side of the news station.

[ctl]

3 hours ago, staffer said:

coming from the prison there are TWO tracks going northeast -- first the NS track (which meets the CSX track at Southern Junction and crosses the mainline at a diamond and heads to Fuquay and points further south) and then the CSX track which wyes with the track that runs on the east side of the news station.

Yes but that "original NS" track is not part of the operational wye which DwnTwnRaleighGuy asked about. Well, technically it could be if you were willing to make a more complicated move in dark territory.

By the way, prior to the mid-1970s that original NS track had a connection to the SAL for entry into the 1890 Raleigh Union Station. After Southern Railway acquired the original NS, the connecting track was realigned for the Southern yard lead into the prison.  

[Green_man]

A bit off topic... a residential developer is working on a rezoning application for 1500 Carson St. in Five Points (wants a mix of townhomes and single-family homes on the site), but my question is... does selling this land indicate any major shift for Norfolk Southern or hint at any future plans?  (Could they abandon some rail lines to consolidate all rail traffic to the opposite CSX side of Capital???)

[staffer]

Saw a post this morning on a Facebook rail group that completion had been pushed back to May 2018, blame assigned to major error in grading for station tracks.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, staffer said:

blame assigned to major error in grading for station tracks.

Can you link to the post please?

[staffer]

28 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Can you link to the post please?

It's in the "Carolina Rails" closed FB group I'm in

Here's a link to the group to join:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/171718566220486/