Raleigh Union Station

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Isn't the high-speed rail following the eastern leg of the Wye into the station (from the North)?  With the platform pretty much along the back of Citrix?

 

SEHSR will use the western CSX leg, between 4 and 7 on the map.

[ctl]

The idea of relocating Glenwood Yard to a new site between Garner and Selma was floated already, but if I recall correctly there was opposition from NIMBYs. 

 

Maybe the east leg of the wye could go away, but it's an operational convenience to be able to turn passenger trains there.  

[kdub1]

Whenever it's relocated, the easternmost track in the wye can be removed, which will leave sites 3 and 4 available for better station facilities like platforms as well as TOD redevelopments.

 

The only drawback is that the future Eastrans project (assuming that it's still on the table) would be compromised wit the loss of that track.

[sax184]

The document of record on potential investments like Eastrans is the Capital Area MPO 2040 Metropolitan Transportation Plan. (MTP)

 

At the link below, you can see the MTP (assumed to be able to be funded, though that assumption includes local tax increases for transit and roads which have not been approved in Wake County) and the CTP (Comprehensive Transportation Plan-a sort of "wish list" that is unfunded)

 

http://www.campo-nc.us/MTP/2040-mtp-public-draft/updated-4-26-2013/2040MTPRail-PPA-and-AIT.pdf

 

You will see that the Eastrans project is not in the MTP, but is in the CTP (wishlist) bin.  CAMPO has designated several areas as "Premium Transit Study Corridors" where they are likely to compare road and rail transit alternatives over the next several years.

 

Bottom line- it is unlikely that the viability of Eastrans as a project will be a controlling variable in the wye or at the Glenwood Yard in regards to decisions about track developments.

[orulz]

I actually meant to say that the WESTERNmost track in the wye area could be removed to free up land, if only Norfolk Southern could be convinced. Sorry for the confusion. This track is actually not a part of the wye; it is just Norfolk Southern's connection to the line to Fuquay.

 

This change would have no bearing on Eastrans, although I don't think Eastrans completely makes sense exactly as proposed in 2004. That line had trains starting in Wilson, going through Raleigh, and then back out on the NCRR towards Goldsboro, and vice versa.

 

The NCRR commuter rail line (Clayton/Garner), one of the two legs of Eastrans, is a higher priority than the NS leg (Zebulon/Wendell/Knigthdale). The NS commuter rail line has some merit, though as Transitman mentions, it's not very high up on the regional priority list.

 

The CSX line (Youngsville/Franklinton/Wake Forest) also seems to have merit but, similar to the NS line, is a lower priority.

 

If I could design a commuter rail system for the Eastern triangle of 25 years from now, I would start trains at logical endpoints on each of the three lines (CSX: Franklinton; NS: Zebulon; NCRR: Selma) and continue them through downtown Raleigh and on to Durham. Each branch would run every 30 minutes at peak times, on a staggered clockface schedule, which would translate into a 10 minute frequency between Raleigh and Durham. 60 minute midday branch frequency could mean 20 minute frequency on the Raleigh-Durham spine. 

 

Transit ridership in the Raleigh-Durham corridor would have to capture 20 times as many people as the DRX bus route currently does to make this worthwhile, but given the forecasts for congestion in the I-40 corridor I think this might be realistic.

[DPK]

I'd hope they pick Site 5 as it's not in the wye, but in short walking distance for transfers from the rail station.

[Jones_]

Site 5 looks fine if the Hargett facing building is left alone...5 Star is awesome! Also site 2 is absolutely horrible...right up on Boylan Heights, destroying Moonlight Pizza...no bueno

[ctl]

Today's coverage in the N&O says the $10M grant from the feds still leaves the project $20M short -- and that doesn't include a parking deck and other items. There remains no timetable, while funding is being finalized. However, Paul Worley of NCDOT says an Amshack is no longer being considered. ("Amshack" refers to a temporary facility like Durham had for many years.)

[orulz]

^^ Read the article here.

 

The City's Tiger V application asked for $21.7 million with a 20% city match of $5.75 million. Presumably the $10 million from TIGER commits the city to at least a 20% match of $2.5 million for a total of $12.5 million of new funding. It seems likely that the city will still be willing to spend their full $5.75 million anyway for a total of $15.75 million new funding for Union station.

 

From the previously allocated $30 million, that brings us to somewhere between $42 and $46 million funding for the station.

 

The full cost of everything in Phase 1 is now estimated at $73 million; it seems like we're still $27-$31 million short of that. I'm not sure where the newspaper is getting the $20 million figure. Is there some funding source we're not aware of? (Reallocation from the Charlotte CSX/NS mainline grade separation that is reportedly dead?)

 

This fascinating Powerpoint shows the "Phase 1A" on pg. 63 that could have been built with the $30 million available, then shows a $58 million "Phase 1B" on pg. 65 that stops short of the full buildout. Phase 1B was as far as we were hoping to get after this TIGER V grant, but we got less than half the Federal funding than we asked for, so I guess something less than Phase 1B but more than Phase 1A is what this will buy.

 

Components added between Phase 1A and 1B are:

• 10,000sf partial buildout of Viaduct Building instead of temporary station
• Second station track
• Longer platform + canopy
• Concourse & tunnel connecting Viaduct Buliding to platform
• Two Grade separated driveways (instead of a single at-grade driveway.)

Given that we're at least $11 million short of what it would cost to do the above, I wonder what will be omitted. Based on the article, it sounds like partial construction on the Viaduct Building is definitely in.

 

By the way, the powerpoint I linked to above is an absolute must-read. It contains an awesome section on the history of railroads in downtown Raleigh as well as more detail about the plans, costs, and phasing of the Union Station project, especially phase 2 to accommodate HSR, than I've seen anywhere before.

[ctl]

I hear that the double crossover planned for the joint H-line/S-line at Fairgrounds has been canceled. The funding was redirected to track improvements at Boylan. I suspect this reduces the RUS project scope a little.

 

In the Powerpoint, the date of closure for the SAL station is incorrect. It says 1982 but it was actually 1985.  

Edited September 5, 2013 by ctl

[Jones_]

Not familiar with this sort of stuff, but was wondering if it's possible to pre lease any of the retail in the buildings to leverage some bonds or something....? I am now seeing that the buildings along West Street are being shown as part of the overall concept too (picture on WRAL today) ? I had been thinking they'd clean up nicely as retail with the pretty vintage canopy facing West, and maybe a rear side walk/patios can enhance the views and connections to the Station...anyway, that would only be able to leverage a million or two I was thinking but anyway, just thought I bring it up. 

[Green_man]

If this is what you are referring to....

... then I think its just a lazy job by WRAL to put up a dated site plan.  Especially since it includes the Citrix block.

[Jones_]

Oh whoops, missed that...Thanks for the heads up

[kermit]

Today's coverage in the N&O says the $10M grant from the feds still leaves the project $20M short -- and that doesn't include a parking deck and other items. There remains no timetable, while funding is being finalized. However, Paul Worley of NCDOT says an Amshack is no longer being considered. ("Amshack" refers to a temporary facility like Durham had for many years.)

TBJ reports that the most recent TIGER grant was increased by $5.5 million. No explanation given.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2013/09/16/city-of-raleigh-gets-another-55m-for.html?ana=e_trig_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2013-09-17

Edited September 17, 2013 by kermit

[ctl]

There seems to be widespread confusion over the numbers.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/17/3204154/raleigh-official-clarifies-amount.html

[orulz]

$15 million more goes to Union Station.

 

This is money reallocated from the (cancelled) Charlotte mainline grade separation project.

 

So, it looks like the full scope of the Union Station project is now funded. Hoo-ray! Further reallocation of funds from that project will allow a full-service maintenance facility to be built in Charlotte, and the fifth frequency of Piedmont service to begin by 2017.

 

Part of me is upset to see this happen, since money is being reallocated from a very unsexy but very useful nuts-and-bolts project, but gosh we need a new station, and the 5th frequency will be nice too.

[ctl]

Given how long CSX has dragged its feet on installing the three fully-funded crossovers on the A-line, I can see why NCDOT had no enthusiasm for continuing with the grade separation project in Charlotte. Of course, the 10 CSX freights that run through Charlotte daily will cause problems with timekeeping of passenger trains on NS/NCRR after the new station in Charlotte has opened.

 

Before it disappears from the NCDOT website, you can read the project description at http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/charlottemainline/

[orulz]

Greyhound is moving out of downtown. They are moving to the corner of Capital & Crabtree into the Hideaway BBQ building.

 

TBJ speculates that this move may be temporary until intercity bus facilities are available at/near Union Station, but it is a 10 year lease and Greyhound has sold their building on West Jones to Ted Reynolds, who developed Quorum Center right across the street.

[ctl]

There is Union Station and there is Union Station. One of them refers to the modestly-scoped project to replace the current station with a larger one; no room for Greyhound or anyone else. The other refers to the grand multimodal vision. I suspect Greyhound's timing of a 10-year lease will turn out to be accurate. 

[Jones_]

The Hideaway space is right across from the new shelter too. Along with the non-poster child city services moving out this way too it all adds up to a general shift of "old downtown" out to the less desired parts of town. 

[Jones_]

On a recent drive out Capital I noticed the new Greyhound terminal is well underway. Looks like a pull through loading shelter for 6 buses is topped out already. 

[Euphorius]

New updates and renderings for Union Station from the meeting today. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/27/3660026/raleigh-union-station-plans-add.html

[ctl]

The Greyhound station is now open. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2014/05/new-greyhound-bus-terminal-ready-to-open-in.html

[DPK]

The Greyhound station is now open. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2014/05/new-greyhound-bus-terminal-ready-to-open-in.html

 

Would be great if they got an up to date photo of that instead of the BBQ one.

[InitialD]

Groundbreaking for Union Station set for March 21st, 2015: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/09/09/4137189_raleigh-to-break-ground-on-union.html?rh=1

 

Most of the renderings I see are low rez so I uploaded some high rez ones: