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BarGal

Red Wings May Build New Rink West of Woodward

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I was reading in this week's Crain's (June 19, 2006) about one of the long rumored possible sites to build a new rink would be on this area. It's 15.4 acres and the Ilitch Family already owes 8.9 acres of it. (However, Chris Ilitch says it would be too expensive to buy up the rest.)

When I first saw the map I panicked because I thought that the GAR Building was in that area, but after researching some, I found it is just outside of the proposed area.

Any how, could you imagine the traffic on I-75 if they build it there? It's horrible when there's a Lions' or Tigers' game. Can you imagine what it'd be like if any of the games should fall on the same day at or near the same time?

WingsProposedSite-WestofWoodward.jpg

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I still think that cutting off Cass Avenue by building a stadium there is stupid. Why do they need so much land? So they can surround the stadium with surface lots? Watch...they'll want to set the stadium back from Grand River, and then put in a few surface lots right on Grand River so that they can make the stadium look more suburban and totally out of context.

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http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=850279

Funny, I just posted regarding that exact same area about a new arena on LetsGoWings.com. I am convinced one could fit an arena in that space between Grand River and Cass, although it would be a tight fit. There could be a garage build over Clifford, with some possible type of tram (think Interstate Traveler...) connecting it with the rest of Foxtown & the Comerica lots.

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Has anyone ever been to the Arena District in Columbus, OH? That is how we should be planning an area for a new rink. Not by gobbling up all the surface streets and some of the buildings that could be preserved if we did. We can get more creative than this, in my opinion.

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I like your ideas in general agdomain. It actually isn't that tight of a fit:

Look for my posts here:

"atdetroit . net /forum/messages/62684/64187.html"

(For some reason, the url is getting corrupted by the forum. Take out the spaces in order to get the real URL.)

And here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20328

Whip out a couple of instances of Google Maps and check it out.

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There is no reason that a hockey arena needs as much land as Ford Field or Comerica Park. That is just ridiculous. The city should demand that they require at least part of the parking to be put underground. There are two many superblocks in, or going up, on downtown's north end along the freeway (i.e. MGM Grand, this proposed arena, Comerica Park, and Ford Field). This isn't some suburb, is it?

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Perhaps they will build the arena. I remember back when Mr. I was going to include it into his new Tiger Stadium plan on the West side(according to the papers), nothing happened except a rise in real estate prices. I actually remember when he was going to build a winter wonderland and build the Hard Rock before Hard Rock came to town too and it made big news! I actually dislike Joe Louis Arena and hope he fronts all the money to build an arena but like others have said, too much land and surface parking won't be something I'd like to see. It would be a shame to see Downtown Detroit turn into some kind of suburban style, isolated island. Aww, what do I know :) You know, Mr. I and family are geniuses as far as building value out of rumor through the media. Maybe it'll all happen and we can reverse the trend of thousands fleeing the city every year as pointed out in the latest census estimates. 887,000 now, and I find that even a little high. Get ready to salute Grand Rapids as the biggest city in Michigan. Some of that is tongue in cheek. I respect you all.

Peace to you and Peace to Detroit!

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I always thought the best spot would be to build it between Clifford and Park Ave and Montcalm and Elizabeth.

wingsarena.jpg

If that isn't large enough, they could cut across Clifford to Cass, but I would hate to cut up Clifford.

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I like your ideas in general agdomain. It actually isn't that tight of a fit:

Look for my posts here:

"atdetroit . net /forum/messages/62684/64187.html"

(For some reason, the url is getting corrupted by the forum. Take out the spaces in order to get the real URL.)

And here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20328

Whip out a couple of instances of Google Maps and check it out.

Oh yeah, I definitely get what you're saying. Actually, if you look on Google Maps, you could see that JLA probably fits in that footstep rather easily. As far as the "tight fit" is concerned, I would like to see how a new arena in that space could deal with all of the extra amenities (i.e. parking, etc.). If they did "form fit" the new rink for that area (i.e. putting up walls on Gd River, Cass, etc, and not setting it back from the roads), it would have so much more of that "Detroit style" and alot more class to come with it. Plus, we wouldn't have that sprawlburg-type arena with a mile of parking in all directions.

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Oh yeah, I definitely get what you're saying. Actually, if you look on Google Maps, you could see that JLA probably fits in that footstep rather easily. As far as the "tight fit" is concerned, I would like to see how a new arena in that space could deal with all of the extra amenities (i.e. parking, etc.). If they did "form fit" the new rink for that area (i.e. putting up walls on Gd River, Cass, etc, and not setting it back from the roads), it would have so much more of that "Detroit style" and alot more class to come with it. Plus, we wouldn't have that sprawlburg-type arena with a mile of parking in all directions.

What's wrong with this:

parking_lot.jpg

:rofl:

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^ The sad thing is, that probably wouldn't be enough parking for Ilitch! LOL!

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I would not touch anything around the Park Avenue District unless it can be guaranteed that none of the streets would be affected and that no (if not few) buildings would have to be demolished.

There is plenty of space in Detroit in prime locations to build an arena. Why is it insisted upon that we have to destroy something in order to make it half-work? Heck, I'd rather put it out in front of the Eddystone/Harborlight lining Woodward.

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I would not touch anything around the Park Avenue District unless it can be guaranteed that none of the streets would be affected and that no (if not few) buildings would have to be demolished.

There is plenty of space in Detroit in prime locations to build an arena. Why is it insisted upon that we have to destroy something in order to make it half-work? Heck, I'd rather put it out in front of the Eddystone/Harborlight lining Woodward.

I agree with you.

But look at the oblique posted above in this thread, and check out my link to previous discussion before.

(http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20328)

A new arena can fit into the 2-block space shown in that picture. It can work around the Iodent Building and the existing fire station. BTW - Go to http://local.live.com/ to look at other similar pictures.

One block of a little-used street and 3 small buildings in rough shape would have to be lost (or moved). Those are negative impacts, but not compared to what might happpen. Loosing a block of Columbia isn't like loosing part of Cass or Clifford

There really aren't too many other decent places to put it...especially when you consider Olympia's business concerns.

If you have better ideas, I'm curious to hear them.

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Personally, I think MGM, Comerica, and Ford Field have already damaged the street layout enough that fitting it in behind Foxtown wouldn't make much of a difference if they closed off another street or two.

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Columbia is the easiest street to close as it isn't a through street in any sense of the world. It doesn't connect to Woodward anymore and all that would be left is a small stretch between Cass and Clifford.

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WingsProposedSite-WestofWoodward.jpg

Here's an aerial of the area. There really isn't much left in there any more...it appears that it may already be a lot of surface lots. I do think that the Chin Tiki (where Eminen shot scene for movie "8 Mile"), would be one of the casualties.

ProposedWestofWoodwardSite.jpg

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Marvin Chin had no interest in reopening the place himself anyway. He was doing renovations, but it would've been leased to someone else. The real death knell to the Chin Tiki was when he sold the parking lot next door to the Macedonian Parking Cartel.

Btw, I was invited inside the Chin Tiki recently...what a cool place!

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...Btw, I was invited inside the Chin Tiki recently...what a cool place!

I've never been inside the Chin Tiki myself...waaay back in the day, a lot of the teachers and vice principals from Cass Tech used to go there for "lunch."

I used to hang out at Busy Betty Grill, it used to be a couple of buildings north of the Chin Tiki (it was demolished a couple of years ago). Or if Betty was sick or on vacation, we'd go to Chris & Carl's that used to be across the street from the Chin Tiki or Peggy's a burger joint that was on the corner of Cass and the service drive. That's where a lot of the high school kids hung out.

All of these places were in that triangular area that's rumored as a proposed site for for the Wings' new stadium.

Oh Allan, I caught those pics in your Flickr album, great timing there on your part.

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Actually, the biggest casualities would be shutting down Cass and/or Clifford, but that doesn't necessarily have to happen if the city demands creative designs in parking and the actual structure if this really is where it's going to go.

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BarGal, the Chin Tiki will be open for the last time during the Motor City Tiki event during the weekend of July 22nd. Mark your calendar!

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The city will hear my voice louder than they will ever desire, if the GAR ends up as a nightclub or something else like that.

As for the arena, what about the stretch where the donovan/sanders buildings were located. I know it is not ideal, but it would serve as a reason to add more housing/businesses further along woodward towards the cultural center. It also would not disturb the street grid.

I could even see a cap on 75 that would connect hockeytown cafe and the arena via a park with a sports theme which could perhaps include monuments to Detroits great sports legends. Personally, the name "arena district" appeals to me much more than "foxtown".

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A little off topic, but I've always like central Detroit's "towns" as it's different than many cities. Every city has an arena/stadia(um) district or a this-or-that district. Heck, Lansing is seeking a grant to create a "Stadium District." lol It's so generic.

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As a side: You can look up property through the city of Detroit's website(they've actually updated recently, well 2005 last we checked.) Taxes, value, comparisons from buy to sell date, etc. Chin Tiki is there. Seems the value went through the roof when Eminem and crew came in and did their thing with 8 Mile. Mr. Chin just cashed checks as far as we can see. Mr. "I" cashes the ultimate check around those parts in any large land deal. The state of Michigan also has an interesting website describing who owned what and when in that area.

Peace

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As a side: You can look up property through the city of Detroit's website...The state of Michigan also has an interesting website describing who owned what and when in that area...

Would it be possible to post links to those sites here? I'd like to check them out.

Thanks.

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