Charlotte Convention Center

[Madison Parkitect]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I hope this convention is HUGE.  I saw the sign on the convention center and surely this will fill up some hotel rooms.  I had a friend in Charleston who retired from the largest paving company in the Lowcountry.   The convention is  booking rooms in 9 hotels which is great. 

https://nationalpavementexpo.com/

There's an entire convention about pavement? Can't wait to attend the "Asphalt: Trending A Little More Black Or A Little Less Black?" roundtable.

[Mgelbach]

1 hour ago, Madison Parkitect said:

There's an entire convention about pavement? Can't wait to attend the "Asphalt: Trending A Little More Black Or A Little Less Black?" roundtable.

I'm sure you're kidding , but I bet there's a ton of companies with new machines and guidance systems for laying asphalt coming.

[Madison Parkitect]

30 minutes ago, Mgelbach said:

I'm sure you're kidding , but I bet there's a ton of companies with new machines and guidance systems for laying asphalt coming.

You're probably right, I bet there's interesting stuff going on with automatic/AI-powered machine guidance. Probably pretty consistent innovation with materials too.

[RANYC]

Just returned from an Alternative Investments Conference in Miami Beach...Fund Investors, Fund Managers, Fund Service Providers.  Attendees were very eager to be out and about, and there were tons of spin-off dinners and drink outings as well.  I left thinking that times could be really good for the convention business, especially with so many people working remotely.  Good chance to go over what's trending and consider the industry's direction of travel.  Anyone innovating needs to come together with other minds...at least periodically.  Just can't imagine an innovative, frontier-seeking, creative and impactful profession of any real scale being done in constant physical isolation, only reachable by screen.

[704Dimitri]

Overview. 

[Guest]

Why did they not cover the other side of the bridge? They put it up then took it right back down a year ago, so strange 

[CLT2014]

Charlotte losing the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in 2023 as our space is too small and demand for the convention soared to requiring 400,000+ square feet of meeting space for 15,000 attendees. Charlotte has 280,000 square feet of exhibit space. Charlotte was originally selected in 2016 prior to convention attendance growing significantly over the years. 

Looks like it is headed to New Orleans where the convention center has 1.1 million square feet of exhibit space.  To put things into perspective on how massive the New Orleans Convention Center is... in Charlotte it would stretch from the current Convention Center location at Stonewall/College all the way to the Levine Museum of the New South at 7th / College (a little more than half the width of Uptown). 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article260620227.html

Edited April 21, 2022 by CLT2014

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Is Charlotte’s 280k including the most recent expansion? Potential convention hotel on Duke center would help add more exhibit space. Sounds like losing this caliber of an event will sting a bit but may also show that conventions are coming back stronger than ever and may provide some insights to the city about future expansion/hotel plans. 

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Is Charlotte’s 280k including the most recent expansion? Potential convention hotel on Duke center would help add more exhibit space. Sounds like losing this caliber of an event will sting a bit but may also show that conventions are coming back stronger than ever and may provide some insights to the city about future expansion/hotel plans. 

Event planners want it to be continuous event space. A convention hotel could add some additional ballrooms, but planners sometimes hate breaking up their events with lots of walking to "other areas." The energy doesn't flow and you can end up with reject / dead spaces. To be competitive with the top venues in Chicago, Orlando, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Anaheim, et... we would need to start from scratch or demolish a significant portion of Uptown for convention space to keep adding on at the scale required.

[Norm2]

23 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Event planners want it to be continuous event space. A convention hotel could add some additional ballrooms, but planners sometimes hate breaking up their events with lots of walking to "other areas." The energy doesn't flow and you can end up with reject / dead spaces. To be competitive with the top venues in Chicago, Orlando, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Anaheim, et... we would need to start from scratch or demolish a significant portion of Uptown for convention space to keep adding on at the scale required.

Depending on the convention, you can spread out a convention over several hotels in addition to convention space.  DragonCon is a great example of this.

[kayman]

I have  yet to understand why the Charlotte Convention Center isn't around 1M+ square feet. Charlotte is a major business city and you want it to host larger conventions. Oh yeah it cash go vertical as well as horizontal with its expansion to achieve that size goal. 

[Madison Parkitect]

10 minutes ago, kayman said:

I have  yet to understand why the Charlotte Convention Center isn't around 1M+ square feet. Charlotte is a major business city and you want it to host larger conventions. Oh yeah it cash go vertical as well as horizontal with its expansion to achieve that size goal. 

All the exhibition space is underground so they can't really expand it.

[kayman]

14 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

All the exhibition space is underground so they can't really expand it.

They are going to have to reconfigure things because 258K sq footage of exhibition space is too small for a region of 3M+.  I don't understand how not why their small minded thinking was at work with the Charlotte Convention Center development. We're bigger than Nashville yet its convention center is bigger. It should've been 1M+ square footage in mind when they built this in the 2000s. This is why we are beleaguered and always behind because nobody thinks bigger when it comes to imagining things that are tied to major cities. 

[CLT2014]

12 minutes ago, kayman said:

They are going to have to reconfigure things because 258K sq footage of exhibition space is too small for a region of 3M+.  I don't understand how not why their small minded thinking was at work with the Charlotte Convention Center development. We're bigger than Nashville yet its convention center is bigger. It should've been 1M+ square footage in mind when they built this in the 2000s. This is why we are beleaguered and always behind because nobody thinks bigger when it comes to imagining things that are tied to major cities. 

The Nashville Convention Center's exhibit hall isn't that much bigger (350,000 square feet) and would not have been able to accommodate the Southern Baptist Convention either. They aren't landing major conventions despite opening in 2013 (whereas Charlotte's opened all the way back in 1995 when the entire county had less than 600,000 people).

In order to reach exhibit space of 1 million square feet... Charlotte would need to completely start from scratch by either demolishing the existing structure or finding new land to build a brand new convention center. You need 1 million square feet on one level with access to a loading dock to compete with New Orleans, Anaheim, Chicago, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, et.... If Charlotte stacked exhibit space on the current building... there is no reasonable method to add the massive / strong elevated roadways to get trucks up to a Level 3 and Level 4 exhibit hall with the current small footprint. The recent expansion to add more meeting space would also making stacking prohibitive. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by CLT2014

[Madison Parkitect]

32 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The Nashville Convention Center's exhibit hall isn't that much bigger (350,000 square feet) and would not have been able to accommodate the Southern Baptist Convention either. They aren't landing major conventions despite opening in 2013 (whereas Charlotte's opened all the way back in 1995 when the entire county had less than 600,000 people).

In order to reach exhibit space of 1 million square feet... Charlotte would need to completely start from scratch by either demolishing the existing structure or finding new land to build a brand new convention center. You need 1 million square feet on one level with access to a loading dock to compete with New Orleans, Anaheim, Chicago, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, et.... If Charlotte stacked exhibit space on the current building... there is no reasonable method to add the massive / strong elevated roadways to get trucks up to a Level 3 and Level 4 exhibit hall with the current small footprint. The recent expansion to add more meeting space would also making stacking prohibitive. 

Exactly right, there's no way to expand their exhibition space in the current location. They can add all the new ballrooms they want on top but they're stuck with what they have for contiguous exhibition space. I saw @CLT Developmenton Twitter propose that a new convention center become part of the new stadium/entertainment district and I think that's the smart play. Sell off the current site and build a new one coupled with the stadium and a big hotel.

[Blakcatfan]

46 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The Nashville Convention Center's exhibit hall isn't that much bigger (350,000 square feet) and would not have been able to accommodate the Southern Baptist Convention either. They aren't landing major conventions despite opening in 2013 (whereas Charlotte's opened all the way back in 1995 when the entire county had less than 600,000 people).

In order to reach exhibit space of 1 million square feet... Charlotte would need to completely start from scratch by either demolishing the existing structure or finding new land to build a brand new convention center. You need 1 million square feet on one level with access to a loading dock to compete with New Orleans, Anaheim, Chicago, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, et.... If Charlotte stacked exhibit space on the current building... there is no reasonable method to add the massive / strong elevated roadways to get trucks up to a Level 3 and Level 4 exhibit hall with the current small footprint. The recent expansion to add more meeting space would also making stacking prohibitive. 

I was just in Nashville a few weeks ago, and after seeing how large Music City Center was I had to look it up.  They list 350,000 SF of Exhibit hall space, but that's just one contiguous space.  They have a 570,000 square foot ballroom, and 900,000 square feet of breakout space.   I don't know how it's configured inside, but the building's footprint takes up 6 city blocks, and is 4 or 5 stores tall.  

I don't like saying this, as I am a CLT fan 100%, but we're a AA team in the world of conventions.  Given the location and monetary situation, I don't know how they would fix it.

[ruraljuror]

20 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The Nashville Convention Center's exhibit hall isn't that much bigger (350,000 square feet) and would not have been able to accommodate the Southern Baptist Convention either. T

Nashville hosted this convention last year, unless I'm confusing denominations.

https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/largest-sbc-gathering-in-25-years-spurred-by-first-time-messengers-geographical-proximity-to-nashville/

I'm not in the convention hosting business, but in the early years after our new convention center opened, the excuse typically tossed around for missing out on huge conventions was almost always pinned on lack of hotel capacity (which they've been working to correct since) as opposed to convention hall square footage.

[CLT2014]

19 minutes ago, Blakcatfan said:

I was just in Nashville a few weeks ago, and after seeing how large Music City Center was I had to look it up.  They list 350,000 SF of Exhibit hall space, but that's just one contiguous space.  They have a 570,000 square foot ballroom, and 900,000 square feet of breakout space.   I don't know how it's configured inside, but the building's footprint takes up 6 city blocks, and is 4 or 5 stores tall.  

I don't like saying this, as I am a CLT fan 100%, but we're a AA team in the world of conventions.  Given the location and monetary situation, I don't know how they would fix it.

Right. They are still on a second tier though because many events want larger exhibit hall space that is continuous. Sadly, that leaves us in the third tier of convention centers. Nashville's exhibition hall is 350,000 square feet and the largest single ballroom available is only 57,500 square feet. They can fit the SBC, but aren't landing top trade shows.  Lots of breakout space is great for some events, or hosting many small events, but Music City Center also cannot accommodate the largest trade shows or events that require continuous space.

Here is a sample image of the Southern Baptist Convention. Anybody that can't fit all these people in one space was out of the running (poor us). Hence they went to New Orleans that has over 1 million square feet of continuous exhibit space. I truly think if we want to compete for the top conventions.... we need to start from scratch. The existing facility layout doesn't work.

Edited April 22, 2022 by CLT2014

[Norm2]

The best solution for a new convention center is to definitely build up. IMO, a sprawling convention center with blank walls taking up many city blocks is a waste of space. Built a 10 story convention center with retail on the ground floor. It may not work for the Southern Baptists, but it will work for many other conventions.

[CLT2014]

12 minutes ago, ruraljuror said:

Nashville hosted this convention last year, unless I'm confusing denominations.

https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/largest-sbc-gathering-in-25-years-spurred-by-first-time-messengers-geographical-proximity-to-nashville/

I'm not in the convention hosting business, but in the early years after our new convention center opened, the excuse typically tossed around for missing out on huge conventions was almost always pinned on lack of hotel capacity (which they've been working to correct since) as opposed to convention hall square footage.

I think Nashville being too small was why they realized Charlotte definitely won't work any longer. The convention was packed in Nashville... often standing room only, chairs up to the wall in the exhibit hall, lines out the door in the grand foyer, not enough food venues so they had to bring in food trucks, et... Nashville did their best to accommodate and pull it off, but the SBC probably won't return and stick with larger venues going forward. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by CLT2014

[ruraljuror]

2 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I think Nashville being too small was why they realized Charlotte definitely won't work any longer. The convention was packed in Nashville... often standing room only, chairs up to the wall in the exhibit hall, lines out the door in the grand foyer, not enough food venues so they had to bring in food trucks, et... Nashville did their best to accommodate and pull it off, but the SBC probably won't return and stick with larger venues going forward. 

That makes sense. Being too small for the biggest crowd in attendance in 25 years is a double-edged sword, I guess. It's like the old joke about the place that's so crowded nobody goes there anymore.

I have heard it was a mess down there, though I think a lot of the food issues were more COVID capacity related than actual capacity. But you're definitely right in your post above that the way the square footage is subdivided has kept a lot of the giant trade shows from coming to town, from what I've heard at least.

[Madison Parkitect]

23 minutes ago, norm21499 said:

The best solution for a new convention center is to definitely build up. IMO, a sprawling convention center with blank walls taking up many city blocks is a waste of space. Built a 10 story convention center with retail on the ground floor. It may not work for the Southern Baptists, but it will work for many other conventions.

How do you get direct loading dock access to those upper floors though?

[jthomas]

Here’s an out of the box idea to solve several UP fantasies at once: replace 277 with a continuous below-grade exhibition space. Maintain the street grid, and develop the space above with a mix of ballroom/meeting space, hotels, and park/plaza area. This puts the convention center in a prime location, without killing multiple city blocks like most convention centers do.

[ertley]

Since someone's suggested building somewhere else, an alternative proposal would be to build a new convention center where the Panthers training facility is. The city owns the land, which theoretically is going to be vacated, eventually, as well as the parcel adjoining continuing along the rail line to Tryon that runs behind the Johnson & Wales parcel. The J&W parcel seems, to me, to house only relatively small dormitories, so if the city could work with them to find land equally close by for building new dorms--maybe even some of the parcels on the other side of the tracks attached to the Gateway project?--and buy them out, the city would have a contiguous two block parcel immediately adjacent to Gateway Station with direct Amtrak service and connection to the airport, within easy walking distance to the current (and future?) NFL stadium and baseball stadium and only five blocks from the literal Center City. Seems like a dream location to me, and if building a hotel is part of the city's plan for the Gateway district, supersize it!

That developable parcel in the Knights stadium block would also make a pretty place for a hotel close by Gateway and a new convention center. 

[Mid South NC]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Right. They are still on a second tier though because many events want larger exhibit hall space that is continuous. Sadly, that leaves us in the third tier of convention centers. Nashville's exhibition hall is 350,000 square feet and the largest single ballroom available is only 57,500 square feet. They can fit the SBC, but aren't landing top trade shows.  Lots of breakout space is great for some events, or hosting many small events, but Music City Center also cannot accommodate the largest trade shows or events that require continuous space.

Here is a sample image of the Southern Baptist Convention. Anybody that can't fit all these people in one space was out of the running (poor us). Hence they went to New Orleans that has over 1 million square feet of continuous exhibit space. I truly think if we want to compete for the top conventions.... we need to start from scratch. The existing facility layout doesn't work.

If Charlotte, Nashville or any other city want to see how to accommodate large conventions then they need only to look to High Point.

High Point lol's at 500,000 sq. Feet of space for conventions. They require 12 million square feet of space. 
 

"Twice each year High Point Market International Home Furnishings Market hosts 2000 exhibitors, 80-100,000 attendees, from 100 countries and over 12 million square feet of exhibits, every April October for two weeks each that a Duke U  study showed contributed $6.7 billion to the local/Triad economy." 
 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Mid South NC