The Valley traffic thread

[colin]

Toll HOVs? Houston is going to be doing it, why not in the Valley?

Some Ariz. motorists giving cool reception to toll lane ideas

Why not in the Valley? Because that wasn't their intention and it shouldn't be, IMHO. I say make the freeways all toll during peak hours and build up the rail infrastructure. Force 'em on to the trains!

[MJLO]

Group wants a group on SanTan freeway route

It cuts thru South Mountain, and apparently in order for a mountain preserve to have a freeway going thru it, There needs to be a resident vote.

I wonder if there are just people out there saying, "hey they are breaking rules, that gives me something to do".

They are eventually going to finish this freeway one way or another, but the residents of the area will do anything to make it difficult. What do you guys think? I'm thinking about starting a thread called the "soapbox". Where we can all post and air our concerns about the preservation of the desert, drinking water, environment ect...... We seem to have alot of concerns for it, as we should. I think I'd just like to channel it into a single discussion.

[convulso]

I'm thinking about starting a thread called the "soapbox". Where we can all post and air our concerns about the preservation of the desert, drinking water, environment ect...... We seem to have alot of concerns for it, as we should. I think I'd just like to channel it into a single discussion.

[markusparkus]

Group wants a group on SanTan freeway route

It cuts thru South Mountain, and apparently in order for a mountain preserve to have a freeway going thru it, There needs to be a resident vote.

I wonder if there are just people out there saying, "hey they are breaking rules, that gives me something to do".

They are eventually going to finish this freeway one way or another, but the residents of the area will do anything to make it difficult. What do you guys think? I'm thinking about starting a thread called the "soapbox". Where we can all post and air our concerns about the preservation of the desert, drinking water, environment ect...... We seem to have alot of concerns for it, as we should. I think I'd just like to channel it into a single discussion.

[MJLO]

ridership may not be super high at first. One thing I can say, is that the bussing system in Phoenix is farely near capacity, and the routes that light rail travels, would be the busiest bus routes. So there is a market here for it, all be it a small one. What very well could happen, and probabally will happen is Infill. It has already started, and the light rail isn't even done. What we could see happening, is that kind of auto free lifestyle downtown. Live in midtown, hop a train for work in downtown, or in Tempe/ Vice versa. One thing I can say for sure is that LRT is designed for the less densely populated areas, and doesn't require near as much ridership as HRT. If Salt Lake City has LRT, and can support it, there is no way it can't be successful here.

[colin]

Or in a place even more car-centric like Dallas.

I think the majority of commuters you'll see riding it initially will be those who currently use express buses, which are typically Downtown workers who would rather not deal with the commute. And that's why it's important to get this thing into as many suburban areas as possible. It's all about making the two modes about the same in trouble and cost.

From what I've seen, I don't really believe that Phoenix traffic is bad enough to the point where Downtown commuters are going to get out of their cars. At least some will though.

[MJLO]

Trust me, I have days where I would. There are days when i'm on my way to my folks house in the east valley, and every single way to get there is blocked with construction detours, or snowbird accidents.

[colin]

Transportation dept. to propose Calif.-style freeways in Phoenix

As if Phoenix wasn't already looking enough like LA...

[MJLO]

the local/express lane thing works real well in Detroit, I think it could do wonders here, but we wouldn't see anything until 2020 i'd wager. That's one thing about all of this planning you don't see results for until ever. I probabally won't live here anymore by the time they work the kinks out of this one.

[MJLO]

Phoenix number six on rude drivers list!

I HAD to post this! That cracks me up .

[traal]

Phoenix was number two last year. Has Phoenix improved, or have the other cities gotten worse?

[colin]

No change. The ambiguity of these ratings leaves the potential for baseless shifts like this wide open.

[convulso]

^ yup. it's only a year.

[MJLO]

the ambiguity of these things leave it wide open for one year a city to have the worst ranking, and the next year the best.

[traal]

Tempe pushes for rail commuter lines

But even with the South Mountain Freeway, transportation planners say the state can't keep up with rapid growth coming from the city of Maricopa and other parts of Pinal County.

"The most logical thing to look at immediately are commuter rail options," [Tempe Mayor Hugh] Hallman said.

[colin]

The LA - Vegas thing certainly makes sense, but Amtrak already serves that route. Conversely, there is no alternative between Tucson and Phoenix, since Phoenix remains the largest American city without rail service.

The whole issue is mentioned in the article: the infrastructure. The rail lines between the two cities no longer exist or are already over-used, and routing it through the East Valley (which makes the most sense to me) would require running a rail line through the Gila River Indian Reservation (it'd be funny to see how long that takes to even start).

I-10 backs up quite a bit south of town at rush hour. Essentially, from Tucson, you never want to try to catch a flight at Sky Harbor departing around 10am. Or, if you do, you should leave before 6am.

[traal]

New routes considered to ease I-17 congestion

The gist of the article is, they're thinking of extending the 51 (Piestawa Peak Parkway) north to Cordes Junction, or building a highway from the 303 west of the 17 north to the Arizona 69.

If some kind of disaster hit Phoenix, how long would it take everyone to get out, in comparison to other metropolitan areas in the country? I'd say the outbound roads would be packed for at least a week, even assuming any accidents are quickly moved to the shoulders.

[colin]

Tucson, Phoenix among cities where crashes are least likely

Despite what anyone who actually drives in Phoenix believes, Allstate ranked Phoenix the safest city in the country among cities 1,000,000+. There's been a lot of speculation as to why Phoenix is always so high in these rankings yet there are clearly wrecks everywhere. I think it's either the wrecks are occurring mostly in the suburbs, or the people involved live in the suburbs and the stats are somehow based on where they live.

I don't know though.

Tucson is #9 of cities 500,000 - 1,000,000.

[traal]

Reservation option still open for freeway

To summarize, the "Gila River Indian Community remains open to allowing the South Mountain Freeway to be built on the reservation", the Williams Gateway Freeway which is scheduled for construction in 2016-2020 will be designed the Arizona 802, and the I-10 will get lanes "dedicated to traffic passing through the Valley".

I think ADOT could make a little extra spending money if they would also allow toll payers to get into and out of the dedicated lanes at convenient points within the valley.

[colin]

Wow, that 802 freeway sounds cool. Keep going with the traditional East Valley solution: build more freeways. But I guess they do need infrastructure.

There was another mentioned a long time ago that would bypass I-10 West along the Gila River from about where the 202/South Mountain is supposed to hit I-10 to near Buckeye. Not sure what happened to that one.

[traal]

There was another mentioned a long time ago that would bypass I-10 West along the Gila River from about where the 202/South Mountain is supposed to hit I-10 to near Buckeye. Not sure what happened to that one.

[MJLO]

There is no doubt that there needs more network of roads around here. The most dense cities with the most traveled HRT, still have a more extensive freeway network than the valley. What looked silly is that SR74 from I-17 to US 60 near wickenburg, would that be a freeway? seems kinda silly building a freeway to empty on to the highway. Are there ever going to be any plans to make transit from here to Vegas more easy? That is without hopping on a USAirways flight.

[traal]

So Phoenix had (in 2003) America's 8th[1] most expensive commute. Houston (another sprawling metropolis) is #1. The report notes that Phoenix's lack of a commuter train system is part of the reason.

[1] Actually, the full report (pdf) says Phoenix is #9 out of 28 metropolitan areas surveyed.

Another interesting report I found on transact.org was about the safety records of different forms of transportation. Out of every 100 million miles traveled in 2001, there's an average of .75 fatalities on public transit, 1.3 in passenger cars and trucks, 7.3 on commercial airlines (normally between 0 and 1.2), and 20.1 pedestrian fatalities.

...the most dangerous places to walk are metropolitan areas marked by newer, low-density developments, where wide, high-speed arterial streets offer few sidewalks or crosswalks. The most dangerous metropolitan area for walking in 2002/2003 was Orlando, followed by Tampa, West Palm Beach, Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, Memphis, Atlanta, Greensboro, NC, Houston, Jacksonville, FL, and Phoenix.

[colin]

Wow, every single one of the dangerous cities listed is in the Sun Belt. Certainly not surprised that Florida has several cities on that list. I assume that includes biking as well.

It's funny though, because I was on the phone with my dad in Houston last night and he was complaining about how much he has to spend on his commute. "Well, dad, I didn't tell you to live 30 miles outside the city and 20 miles from your job."

Maybe it's just me, but it always seems as though people in Phoenix work on the opposite side of the Valley from where they live. Of course, Houston's actually a lot more spread out than Phoenix and, even when you don't live on the opposite side of town, commutes are typically over 10 miles.

[MJLO]

Wow, every single one of the dangerous cities listed is in the Sun Belt.