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Pittsburgh's Feature on Charlotte


redjeep77

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The article says one in five people here work in the financing industry. That includes other banks like First Citizens and BB&T, along with other financial institutions like Decision One, EquiFirst, First Franklin, etc. It's a large industry. The 32k you people keep referencing is only the number employed by the combination of BofA and Wachovia.

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All that great talk finished up by saying "It's too small a town." That caught me a little off guard.

When I read that, I got the impression that it was related to the way the two banking giants must share the same town, but don't want to. In other words, it was a remark similar to "this town ain't big enough for the both of us." It certainly doesn't sound like they meant to disparage Charlotte, or at least I hope he didn't mean it. In any case, the description of Charlotte's progress was very nice, and Charlotte is only getting bigger (by the day). If they DID mean it the way you took it, they shouldn't have, because Pittsburgh isn't THAT much larger than Charlotte. Pittsburgh has what, 2 some odd million people? Charlotte has 1.5 in MSA and over 2 million in CSA? That's not a large difference. Pittsburgh is shrinking, or at least has been for 20 years.

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When I read that, I got the impression that it was related to the way the two banking giants must share the same town, but don't want to. In other words, it was a remark similar to "this town ain't big enough for the both of us." It certainly doesn't sound like they meant to disparage Charlotte, or at least I hope he didn't mean it. In any case, the description of Charlotte's progress was very nice, and Charlotte is only getting bigger (by the day). If they DID mean it the way you took it, they shouldn't have, because Pittsburgh isn't THAT much larger than Charlotte. Pittsburgh has what, 2 some odd million people? Charlotte has 1.5 in MSA and over 2 million in CSA? That's not a large difference. Pittsburgh is shrinking, or at least has been for 20 years.

Yea, i reread the article, it makes sense that way and goes in context too. I guess I was up way past my bedtime at that point to do any critical thinking.

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Yea, i reread the article, it makes sense that way and goes in context too. I guess I was up way past my bedtime at that point to do any critical thinking.

Well, I can definately see how you might interpret it that way. I had to read it a few times before I decided, and I'm still not sure 100%. He did say in the first part of the article (or perhaps the other one) that it was a "once sleepy city." I'm telling myself he meant it the other way anyway. :P

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I absolutely cannot believe that it is Charlotte being described from some of the comments made:

The first time 30-year-old Jennifer Linsenmayer and her husband James, 35, moved to Charlotte, Mrs. Linsenmayer moved back after nine months. "I hated it," she said. "I hated the people, I hated where we were living. It seemed like this big party town."

"That's all the city is about -- bankers," said Mr. Spain.

Mrs. Linsenmayer..said she was happy but laments the focus in Charlotte "on work and on fun and not so much on family..."

Charlotte a big party town? ALL about bankers? Not family-oriented? :blink:

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I agree. The 2nd two installments of this series were pretty lame. One gets the impression that everyone working here are mindless worker drones for the two banks and there is nothing else here but that. The whole premise behind the article is that Pittsburgh failures are really due to places such as Charlotte that have basically one industry, in this case banking, that is doing really well.

Of course this isn't true as the 32K jobs operated by the two firms are not that significant in the economic growth of the entire area. For example, there is not one mention of Duke Energy, also in downtown which is the largest energy company in the USA. (Including its subsidiaries that it operates under different names) Duke was already very large back when NCNB and FU were just NC based banks and has played a big role in the growth of this city. Charlotte's history is more than just 20 years.

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I agree. The 2nd two installments of this series were pretty lame. One gets the impression that everyone working here are mindless worker drones for the two banks and there is nothing else here but that. The whole premise behind the article is that Pittsburgh failures are really due to places such as Charlotte that have basically one industry, in this case banking, that is doing really well.

Of course this isn't true as the 32K jobs operated by the two firms are not that significant in the economic growth of the entire area. For example, there is not one mention of Duke Energy, also in downtown which is the largest energy company in the USA. (Including its subsidiaries that it operates under different names) Duke was already very large back when NCNB and FU were just NC based banks and has played a big role in the growth of this city. Charlotte's history is more than just 20 years.

It is typical journalism at its finest. Shallow, trite and unsupported by any thorough statistical investigation. The one thing I agree with is the statement about the cars. I'm amazed by the number of people with high-end cars around here, that is starkly different than Pittsburgh. Also, Pittsburgh's a great city, but their biggest problem is one of attitude. Businesses are viewed as inherently evil entities that make rich people richer, so they tax the living daylights out of them, and anyone who tries too hard to be successful is shunned as being a sellout and having no soul. They're unmatched on the class envy scale. This makes a very unfavorable climate for new and existing businesses, which is a shame because they've got an amazing number of fantastic schools and universities. It's just that everyone who graduates moves somewhere else.

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I finally got innured to seeing BMW after BMW, Mercedes, Rovers, Maseratis, and Bentleys all over South Charlotte. It can be headache inducing :wacko:

Funny that a banking town would evidence so many poor decisions about money. Cars are pretty much the worst thing to spend your money on if you're going to be extravagant. Those are $100,000 plus cars. I'm always wondering what these people are thinking. I know they can't possibly all be wealthy enough that this level of spending doesn't put some cramp in their budget.

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I think the cars in the $100K+ realm belong to folks in the top-tier of their respective fields... Corporate titans, professional sports people, etc. For them, a $2000.00/mo car payment (if they even carry a note) is nothing. I don't think a middle manager at one of the banks is behind the wheel of a Bentley worrying whether or not he made a sound investment.

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I think the cars in the $100K+ realm belong to folks in the top-tier of their respective fields... Corporate titans, professional sports people, etc. For them, a $2000.00/mo car payment (if they even carry a note) is nothing. I don't think a middle manager at one of the banks is behind the wheel of a Bentley worrying whether or not he made a sound investment.

It just seems that there's way too many of them compared to the number of top tier folks. I guarantee you that many of them stretched more than a bit. The idea that someone would borrow money to buy such a car speaks volumes about whether they really could afford it. In my book, anything as wasteful as a six-figure car, you should be able to buy it with cash and not blink an eye for it to be justified. Otherwise, just buy a fine "inexpensive" $60,000 car and spare yourself the pinch.

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I'm a Carnegie Mellon student from the Carolinas, and I can tell you that Pittsburgh is TERRIFIED of Charlotte. Everyone here does their internships in NYC and Charlotte, and no one sticks around to work at PNC when they graduate. I'm baffled that the Gazette is running these praising articles instead of trying to scare students into staying in Pittsburgh... maybe then the city could afford to plow my street.

Counterpoint: I'm from Pittsburgh and just finished undergrad and grad work in the Carolinas. I passed up jobs in Charlotte to move back up here. Terrified is certainly not the word I'd use. Obsessed, more likely. Charlotte's growth is an envy of most northern cities. Terrified? no, despite the Post-gazette's interest in Charlotte and USair, we don't even have much in common.

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.... Otherwise, just buy a fine "inexpensive" $60,000 car and spare yourself the pinch.

Actually most of the Mercedes-Benzs on the road are less than this price. They are a pretty good deal if you get one and drive it until it falls apart which is a very long time if it is maintained.

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Counterpoint: I'm from Pittsburgh and just finished undergrad and grad work in the Carolinas. I passed up jobs in Charlotte to move back up here. Terrified is certainly not the word I'd use. Obsessed, more likely. Charlotte's growth is an envy of most northern cities. Terrified? no, despite the Post-gazette's interest in Charlotte and USair, we don't even have much in common.

Indeed, one of the big items missed by this article is that Charlotte is home to a lot of high tech steel manufacturing. It's companies like Nucor Steel, based here in Charlotte, that put the hurt on traditional steel making companies that was once the big industry in Pittsburgh.

Likewise, the USAir hub died in Pittsburgh because of the low cost operations of the Charlotte hub.

The author of that article however was too fixated on the banks to take much notice of this these much more significant relationships between Charlotte and Pittsburgh. It was a very lightweight story, which while disappointing is no longer uncommon for what passes for journalism these days. It's obvious the paper did not do its homework on this "feature".

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Actually most of the Mercedes-Benzs on the road are less than this price. They are a pretty good deal if you get one and drive it until it falls apart which is a very long time if it is maintained.

Being a car buff, I can spot the ones that are over $100,000. There are a surprising number of them. The interest alone from that kind of outlay would pay for the ongoing lease of a brand new Toyota every three years for perpetuity. I think it is really hard to justify, but if that's what people want to spend their money on, then the most I can do is chuckle a bit and sigh. Most of those people are paying for status, they don't need a 450 horsepower engines and all the fancy gadgets.

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Being a car buff, I can spot the ones that are over $100,000. There are a surprising number of them. The interest alone from that kind of outlay would pay for the ongoing lease of a brand new Toyota every three years for perpetuity. I think it is really hard to justify, but if that's what people want to spend their money on, then the most I can do is chuckle a bit and sigh. Most of those people are paying for status, they don't need a 450 horsepower engines and all the fancy gadgets.

Chances are, if you are in a $100,000 Mercedes Benz, you are not paying that much interest. I would wager that the average Mercedes Benz owner driving a $100,000 or above car is probably paying less of a car note than the average Camry owner. That is, of course, if they are not a person living above their means.

Not to defend Mercedes Benz, but if you are ever in the misfortune of having an accident in one, you will understand that they are worth every dime. I love the fact that an auto can raise my seat to an optimal position, close my sunroof and side windows, put my steering wheel into a less evasive position, tighten my seatbelts and brake for me....all in milliseconds.

BTW, I enjoyed the articles........

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Chances are, if you are in a $100,000 Mercedes Benz, you are not paying that much interest. I would wager that the average Mercedes Benz owner driving a $100,000 or above car is probably paying less of a car note than the average Camry owner. That is, of course, if they are not a person living above their means.

Not to defend Mercedes Benz, but if you are ever in the misfortune of having an accident in one, you will understand that they are worth every dime. I love the fact that an auto can raise my seat to an optimal position, close my sunroof and side windows, put my steering wheel into a less evasive position, tighten my seatbelts and brake for me....all in milliseconds.

BTW, I enjoyed the articles........

It's not Mercedes Benz in particular I'm maligning, just anyone foolish enough to drop $100,000 on a car. I know they're great cars, but I think there's a diminishing rate of return much past the $30K to $40K range.

I do also think that people frequently borrow to buy the $100K cars. Like you, I used to think that once you got to a certain level, one would be entirely self-financed. Now, I'm convinced that overreaching is just as common at high income levels as at median income levels. I've also known enough car salespeople to know that in the majority of cases, regardless of cost, people borrow to buy the car that's out of their reach. It's the human condition. Some people are frugal and find a way to save and live below their means at $50K, others will spend every dime and then $1 more. It's the great equalizer.

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I understand what you are saying but I was saying that most do not finance the entire amount of their automobiles. The people I know who are driving, say a 2007 S550, put down 75 to 80% of the cost of the car. They are financing the rest because they feel a need to "keep a credit history." Half will pay it off in a year anyway. This also takes place with multi-million dollar homes as well. Most people of true means are not financing 95, 90 or even 75% of the purchase amount. If they are, I am surprised because that is not a sound business decision....especially on auto which are a depreciating assest. Can you imagine how foolish someone would look if they are financing their Phantom for 90% or the purchase amount?

I think the ones who are stretching are driving the lesser models.

I would also hope that someone buying a $100,000 automobile is not themselves making $120,000. That is indeed foolish. If you are netting $25,000+ a month then what is a $1000.00 car note?

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Indeed, one of the big items missed by this article is that Charlotte is home to a lot of high tech steel manufacturing. It's companies like Nucor Steel, based here in Charlotte, that put the hurt on traditional steel making companies that was once the big industry in Pittsburgh.

Likewise, the USAir hub died in Pittsburgh because of the low cost operations of the Charlotte hub.

The author of that article however was too fixated on the banks to take much notice of this these much more significant relationships between Charlotte and Pittsburgh. It was a very lightweight story, which while disappointing is no longer uncommon for what passes for journalism these days. It's obvious the paper did not do its homework on this "feature".

Amen Metro. Nucor is twice as large as US steel asnd they totally omitted that one. Pittsburgh is noted for their steel industry and they just tip toed all around that issue. I thought this article was shallow in that it only focused on banking and danced around other mega firms (ie Tiaa Creff, Microsoft, Lowe's ,Family Dollar, Nucor) the list goes on and on. Not to mention that 90% of all NASCAR teams are headquartered here, which is the largest sport in the US (in terms of dollars).

Outside of banking we are tied for fifth in the nation for Firtune 500 firms HQ's(including the obvious two that are banks). Plus we are a leading Distribution and Manufactoring Hub. Actually we are ranked as the sixth largest city for distribution. I also noticed the blurb about not family oriented.

Are you kidding me?!! I think it might be too family oriented.

A2

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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06179/701578-28.stm

The first time 30-year-old Jennifer Linsenmayer and her husband James, 35, moved to Charlotte, Mrs. Linsenmayer moved back after nine months. "I hated it," she said. "I hated the people, I hated where we were living. It seemed like this big party town."

Mrs. Linsenmayer, who has a new baby daughter, said she was happy but laments the focus in Charlotte "on work and on fun and not so much on family. ... We are here because of the opportunities, but we desperately miss the culture Pittsburgh gives us. There are some cool things in Charlotte, but it is just not home."

This is amusing. So are her comments about Charlotte on MP3 on that last article.

To that I say "If you don't like the city, move and find your happiness elsewhere."

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This is amusing. So are her comments about Charlotte on MP3 on that last article.

To that I say "If you don't like the city, move and find your happiness elsewhere."

One thing about Pittsburgh is very few people leave, so the majority (if not all) of her immediate and extended family still lived in Pittsburgh. Hence her perception about Charlotte as not being a "family" town. I was surprised when I moved down here how unsettling it was to no longer have at least one family member less a half a mile a way anywhere in the entire city. No support network for raising kids either. Here, everyone has nannies or daycare. Back home you had grandma and grandpa who always wanted to watch the kids. So, for a Pittsburgh transplant it probably did not seem very friendly to her family.

What's the quote about Charlotte I usually hear...is it "It's a nice place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit"?

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