UNC Charlotte Football

[monsoon]

While it "could" do these things, the vote demonstrates the the probability of it doing so is fairly low and it would take a huge amount of money to find out for certain. As you said college is about education and UNCC needs to devote it's very scarce resources and political capital in Raleigh towards building more education infrastructure. The pursuit of a football team would be an unnecessary distraction from that effort and would cast some doubt on the credibility of the people running the school.

[AuLukey]

I'm not disagreeing at you that people had a long and easier time to vote in comparison to an election, but I find it ironic that you're comparing a hypothetical college football team to the fate of our nation.

[monsoon]

^uhh, read again. I only responded to those that did do this. It's is unfortunate however that so much effort did go into this endeavor instead of a project that might go towards addressing some of the issues of this nation.

[AuLukey]

Ok, so I know this debate is long been dead and debating it really isn't going to go very far until further information is put out there by the football panel later this year, but I just thought I would let everybody know about the results of the latest campus elections that just finished yesterday on campus from the same semester, only a couple months later.

(numbers rounded)

21000 students

8170 voted in the football poll

1700 voted in the campus presidential election.

Both polls were well advertised and just as accessible online (from the same exact website.) Nearly five times as many students submitted votes in the football poll as did in the campus elections. Just thought I'd put that information out there.

[jednc]

Ok, so I know this debate is long been dead and debating it really isn't going to go very far until further information is put out there by the football panel later this year, but I just thought I would let everybody know about the results of the latest campus elections that just finished yesterday on campus from the same semester, only a couple months later.

(numbers rounded)

21000 students

8170 voted in the football poll

1700 voted in the campus presidential election.

Both polls were well advertised and just as accessible online (from the same exact website.) Nearly five times as many students submitted votes in the football poll as did in the campus elections. Just thought I'd put that information out there.

Clearly because only 8.1% of the students bothered to vote, the results are invalid. All newly elected officials should be informed immediately they are not eligible for office.

Furthermore, because fully 91.9% of the students didn't vote, this CLEARLY says they do not want a student government on campus. They do not want to pay for this SGA to exist and having one does nothing to further campus spirit or the educational mission the University should be concerned with.

We all can only conclude that 91.9% of students not voting sends a clear message that they disagree with having an SGA, certainly not that they just didn't vote for any of a million reasons.

[monsoon]

^Maybe you can, but a comparison to an election is irrelevant. It's just another spin by the supporters of football to somehow put a positive face on the rather dismal showing of who might support football at UNCC. And I realize you were trying to be sarcastic, but that just proves, as it has many times, that you don't have much interest in discussing the topics here in a serious manner.

[AuLukey]

Not to get off topic, but he was pretty much just restating what you said before about the football poll. And, as much as I'm sure I will catch grief for this, I completely agree. If you can say that if x% did vote for one election, it means something, than you most certainly can conclude the same about another poll. I'm sure that anyone can manipulate results of any poll or election in whatever direction they please. The point merely is, that if you are going to put down the idea of football because not EVERYBODY voted, then you can say the same about any government election no matter what it is for. Thus, the statement made by jednc can only be irrelevant if the very same statements about the football poll are too. This, therefore, takes us back to the point in this thread before the football poll ever occurred. Now we're all even and we can drop the relevance of the number of people who voted in the football poll as somehow arguable.

[monsoon]

^Not really.

They had a multi-week online poll to ask how many people would support football enough to pay for it themselves and attend games. Out of almost 22,000 students, they got about 4,500 who said they would. i.e. at best. only 20% care enough about it to answer an online poll about it. That fact isn't disputable.

I would contend that if you can't do better than 20% of the students, then it isn't worth pursuing.

[Justadude]

As evidenced by my contributions to this thread many weeks ago, I do not support the idea of UNCC football...

...however, to be fair, many of those 22,000 students are untraditional and therefore not likely to vote in any poll concerning campus life. I know many people who are technically students at the university and have no interest whatsoever in whether it has a football team. These people are adult, commuting, non-daytime students; several take classes online and are totally disconnected from the campus.

So really, the pool of students whose opinion matters is much smaller than 22,000. I would be more interested in the opinions of those living on campus and in the apartments immediately surrounding campus, since they will be the target audience for a football program.

[monsoon]

^It matters because one of the main reasons given by football supporters, it's been stated in this thread, is that it would create a huge social atmosphere at UNCC which would draw people to the school on the weekends. I completely agree with you that for most of the people going to that school, who are actually going for an education, this would not be the case.

The election has proved there isn't much interest at UNCC for football. So what do the supporters do? Spin the results instead of accepting the results of the vote. I guess that is a typical and expected response these days.

[Durhamite]

^It matters because one of the main reasons given by football supporters, it's been stated in this thread, is that it would create a huge social atmosphere at UNCC which would draw people to the school on the weekends. I completely agree with you that for most of the people going to that school, who are actually going for an education, this would not be the case.

The election has proved there isn't much interest at UNCC for football. So what do the supporters do? Spin the results instead of accepting the results of the vote. I guess that is a typical and expected response these days.

Don't Harvard, Yale and Princeton have football programs? Isn't it possible to enjoy football and study? Sort of like walking and talking at the same time? One of the best aspects of football is homecoming. It is truly the only event that many former students would ever attend after leaving a particular university.

If football keeps you from attaining an education, that's a personal problem, not a football problem!

[monsoon]

^Read above. UNCC does not have the resources of Harvard, Yale, etc. It needs to focus everything it has on building new facilities for education and not get lost on the distraction of building a football stadium.

[cltheel.sdl]

^Read above. UNCC does not have the resources of Harvard, Yale, etc. It needs to focus everything it has on building new facilities for education and not get lost on the distraction of building a football stadium.

The revenue from a football program could help boost building for education at UNCC. I don't think it would take anything away.

[fortyniner]

Obviously, from my handle on this board, I support UNCC. I feel like the football detractors are adament in their anti-football stance. I think football at the future University of Charlotte is overdue. The reasoning for opposing it is stated to be lack of support in the number of students voting or some perceived detraction in academics, but I suspect it is just school rivalry that is behind it. Just as the City of Charlotte needs to build its infrastructure for the major city it is becoming, the University needs to build the infrastructure for broad-based (read All Sports) fan support for what will always be the largest university in N.C.'s most urban city. No one is going to change anyone else's mind on this forum regarding Charlotte football, but there are many of us who support adding the sport. Maybe it's irrational exhuberance, but Go Niners!

[monsoon]

School Rivalry? For the record, I am a graduate of UNCC.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The revenue from a football program could help boost building for education at UNCC. I don't think it would take anything away.

There's little chance that it would run profitably, few school's do but for accounting tricks.

Starting a new football program would certainly pull focus away from creating new and improving existing academic programs; it is impossible that it wouldn't.

[Durhamite]

There's little chance that it would run profitably, few school's do but for accounting tricks.

Starting a new football program would certainly pull focus away from creating new and improving existing academic programs; it is impossible that it wouldn't.

For the record, school is about MUCH more than academics. It's the center focus, but give me a BREAK! Most students could care less about history courses, but it's a part of many cirriculums. I mean, does a student with a GPA of 2.8 going to be less successful than a student who graduates with a 3.5? Or is it more important to do interns or co-ops during college (um...networking and understanding the REAL demands of a REAL JOB)?

The university experience is UNIQUE and the total focus should not be devoted to just adding classrooms. Why build a new student center, I've personally wasted many a day in the student union/center but it was a good place to meet people, relax, etc.

Improving programs and academics are GREAT, but having worked in BIG, BAD corporate America for many years, you'll never be able to convince me that football is going to ruin anyone's education.

There's a limited percentage of the student body that is totally focused on high GPAs and pursuing graduate degrees. Most just want the pain to end after 4 years and go from there.

[fortyniner]

School Rivalry? For the record, I am a graduate of UNCC.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one issue. I did live in Birmingham from 1998 thru 2004, and I can tell you they had a lot of problems with football. The funding for their football comes from the U of Alabama and they were on double/not-so-secret probation in 2002 or 2003 at UAB. The vast majority of Birmingham's population are rabid Alabama Crimson Tide fans (only 1 hour away). I think UNCC could experience some of the same problems initially, but Step One is to get a team. Some steps down the road, it's being in position to get into a decent conference with good rivalries. I think it could do wonders not just for the students, but for Charlotteans in general, who by the time Steps 2, 3, or 4 are taken, won't be the same Charlotteans we know. It's just that for my whole life, it's been "maybe in 20 years..." It's another building block in this enterprise called Charlotte that we all want the best for. I don't think this will be a detriment to the university. There will always be something else looking for a higher priority, whether it be LRT, law school, med school, or whatever. Just glad to be back in the QC and will always support projects that make this city special.

[AuLukey]

Ok, so let's assume the worst case scenario: if a football team is created, it will take the focus away from academics on the student level. However, look at schools that have football teams. Are students at Duke, NC State, Chapel Hill, Appalachian, and Clemson distracted by football over the greater good of their academic experience? Maybe some are, but I would bet that compared to the number of students at those schools, maybe half of one percent are negatively effected by the presence of college sports. Thus, I can't see this being an actual issue. Yes, they should focus on their studies, but I don't think having football will change that.

That said, if a football team is created, the focus on academic facilities is not likely to change if the team starts off in a already existing stadium (through increased student fees) and the school raises funds for a new stadium through donations and increased student fees--a la student union. These funds would not have any effect on the building funds that go into things like dorms, classrooms, and other necessary facilities. Like the new student union, baseball stadium upgrades, and proposed fitness center, students, alumni, and members of the community are helping to pay for such facilities. The building fund is not effected in the slightest by these with possibly the exception of infrastructure improvements. So, if indeed the stadium is built by the same sort of money that these other buildings are, the school will not lose focus on its master plan. If the school plans on reaching the forecast 35,000 student body, it is going to have to stay on track with its current plan. While having a football team and stadium may divert the focus of the student body ever so slightly, it will not have a negative effect on UNCC.

[monsoon]

^You are giving statistics that are based on opinion and a desire for the school to play a sport that most people are not interested in.

UNCC does not need football to succeed and nobody has provided any proof that it would improve 'anything' at the school yet it's certain it would divert important resources away from education. I think it's great that UNCC may very well be one of the largest schools in the state in a few years and it got there without having to use a gimmick like football to get there.

[Justadude]

For the record, school is about MUCH more than academics. It's the center focus, but give me a BREAK! Most students could care less about history courses, but it's a part of many cirriculums.

Curricula.

The quality of one's education comes across subtly, even in "BIG, BAD corporate America". It's worth the investment.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Justadude

[AuLukey]

^You are giving statistics that are based on opinion and a desire for the school to play a sport that most people are not interested in.

UNCC does not need football to succeed and nobody has provided any proof that it would improve 'anything' at the school yet it's certain it would divert important resources away from education.

What statistics did I give? All of those facts are based off of what the school has already decided about football thus far. Not my own opinion of what I think will happen.

Exactly what important resources would be diverted away from education if school funds aren't being used to support the team?

[BobbyDav]

Bill Friday, who was president of the UNC system for 30 years, says that UNCC couldn't afford football and shouldn't have a team even if they could because they lack a fan base. I don't know how true that is, but when it comes to UNC schools you pretty much need the Friday stamp of aproval to do anything. As long as he's against it I doubt much will happen, unless someone else with whole lot of money or power in the state could spearhead the program. Unfortunately for football fans, all the big UNCC alumns probably have season tickets to the Panthers and would rather see the school's academics improve.

[rockhilljames]

This whole debate is silly. If Elon, Coastal Carolina, SC State, Davidson (wow, the football program really hurts Davidson's academic reputation, doesn't it?!), and Furman can all afford football teams and somehow avoid having the football program implode their academic standings than UNCC can have one.

All it boils down to is the desire of the alumni and current students to pursue it and the Trustees to have the political will to start it. Once the football program starts it would be a success. I don't ever see the program getting to the level of an NC State, Clemson, USC, or Georgia Tech, but it could be a major player at the I-AA level, and I sure as heck could be wrong about that.

[monsoon]

^Is that the debate is silly or rather the people who disagree with you that you are calling silly? The points for not having a program at UNCC have been well covered in this thread and to simply dismiss them as "silly" because tiny schools in comparison choose to waste resources on football isn't a very convincing argument.