UNC Charlotte Football

[NLP]

We plan on asking the students if they are willing to support an increase in fees. Since they'll pay for the bulk of the initial start-up, obviously they have the right to voice their opinion.

We're still getting 10 pledges a day with very, very limited exposure. We haven't directly targeted our core fan base yet (that's coming) and more is in store to target potential fans across the area. Another area we have not gauged interest from are the area businesses that might want to support Charlotte 49er Football. We're also (and this is the most important part) not going away. We know this won't get done in a year. We're in this for the long haul.

As for the remark about more talk than work, right now we're more work than talk. But our work has resulted in more talk, andmore pledges.

I will say though that I agree with you monsoon about improving facilities for undergrads and getting more of them to live on campus (with the increase in crime just off campus, it's for their own good!) I will also say again that this is not mutally exclusive from football. The Athletic Department has it made. They can watch us do the work and show them if the money and the interest is there. In the internet age, I think we're doing a great thing. This isn't sword-wavering where a bunch of people are asking for someone's head on a silver platter. I hope we can get the support of all of you, but at a minimum I hope you appreciate the way we're trying to do this. It's actually pretty fun.

[Miesian Corners]

UNC Charlotte was founded in 1949, Coastal was 1954. I guess I don't understand why a smaller school would be better suited for football? And I'm not suggesting that Myrtle Beach or Conway residents would be the ones going to Coastal for a game, I'm suggesting alumni and students would.

The UNC system has no real plans for further on campus housing...anywhere. I'll paraphrase what the ex chancellor of NC State said when questioned by the City of Raleigh over student housing: we are in the business of education, NOT housing...we'll leave that up to the private sector. Of course, she had no issue with athletics at NC State because it brings in $$$$$$$.

RL, I'm not most students. And I assure you I don't talk more than I think (but thanks for the vote of confidence in my abilities). I'm a 41-year old who both works full-time and attends school full-time. I have a mortgage, pay my own tuition, buy my own books, and study my butt off. But I also realize what the average 18 to 21 year old American college student craves when they go to a university. They want an education, a community, and fun. Even those that attend Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Cornell, Notre Dame, UCLA, USC (the one in California), Northwestern, Boston College, etc. embrace the athletic traditions of their schools, regardless of how well teams perform or what the academic standards are. My best friend went to Northwestern (female, and graduated sprite laude). Brainiac that she is, she never missed a football game and the team SUCKED! She went because it was fun and it took her mind (temporarily) off the stress she faced in the classroom.

Collegiate sports bring in LOTS of money. Sales of collegiate sporstwear alone brings in millions. Currently, there is no reason for alum of UNC Charlotte to ever return to campus after graduating. Ask that of the alums of Chapel Hill, NC State, Appalachian, Wake Forest, Duke, NC A & T, NC Central, Wofford, Presbyterian, Furman, Johnson C Smith, The Citadel, Western Carolina, East Carolina, or Clemson. The fact that alums are once again on the campus of their alma mater brings fiscal and physical needs to their attention. People by nature are far more apt to give when they can visualize what needs are, rather than when they get a letter begging for money.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Miesian Corners

[AuLukey]

The UNC system has no real plans for further on campus housing...anywhere. I'll paraphrase what the ex chancellor of NC State said when questioned by the City of Raleigh over student housing: we are in the business of education, NOT housing...we'll leave that up to the private sector. Of course, she had no issue with athletics at NC State because it brings in $$$$$$$.

I can't vouge for the rest of the UNC system, but I do know that Charlotte has it in its master plan to tear down the high rises and build newer, shorter dorms along the soon-to-be-built front section of the campus loop. That portion of the loop is set to be built along with the new front entrance in December/January. Maybe by replacing, it isn't exactly adding housing. Also, they are wrapping up the Greek Village; while this in itself is minimal in the 'housing' department, it does clear up a lot of room in some of the dorms for non-greek students.

Do also whole-heartedly agree with your last statement as well.

[Skyline49er]

In agreement with Metro, Coastal, while enjoying success is still a much smaller student body than UNCC. And oddly enough it is still mostly a commuter campus. The Chants while technically is apart from the USC campus is still enjoying its old affiliation with the system. The word 'Chanticleer' even means "a fighting chicken" from Chaucers Canterbury tales. However, I like to think that if UNCC were to get a football program it would aspire to a higher status than playing teams such as Wofford and Georgia Southern. The simple fact of the matter is that it all boils down to the numbers. And the numbers are that football programs initially are a huge drain on a schools finances and even in the long run there is slight chances for the program to operate in the black. I to am on campus most days and hear the football talk. But as with most college students, they talk more than they think. Are they willing to see their student fees increase for the team? Are they willing for potential increases in tuition? And are they willing to watch a struggling team for the first decade? fanciful thoughts rarely lead to rash decisions...sorry to be a buzz kill ya'll.

I would be willing to watch a struggling team for the first two decades, if it meant waking up on a saturday, tailgating with friends and going to watch a football game. That is just how I am. I grew up on football and it is a part of my life. I would love to see those green helmets with the Niner logo on it.

I can't vouge for the rest of the UNC system, but I do know that Charlotte has it in its master plan to tear down the high rises and build newer, shorter dorms along the soon-to-be-built front section of the campus loop. That portion of the loop is set to be built along with the new front entrance in December/January. Maybe by replacing, it isn't exactly adding housing. Also, they are wrapping up the Greek Village; while this in itself is minimal in the 'housing' department, it does clear up a lot of room in some of the dorms for non-greek students.

Do also whole-heartedly agree with your last statement as well.

Aussie, Do you know why the new front entrance has been pushed back to December/January? I thought they were going to start construction back in July.

[AuLukey]

Aussie, Do you know why the new front entrance has been pushed back to December/January? I thought they were going to start construction back in July.

The decision was made back in June to hold off on construction, here's a post from the UNCC Construction thread:

I came across this article on NinerOnline.com that talks about all construction on campus.

[url=http://www.nineronline.com/media/storage/paper971/news/2006/07/25/News/Constructing.Unccs.New.Image-2087449-page2.shtml

It states also that construction on the new entrance will not begin til the beginning of 07' because of funding issues. The student union construction is slated to begin by years end.

EDIT: Old link fixed

Edited September 22, 2006 by aussie luke

[Skyline49er]

^^^Thanks Aussie, I must have missed that back in June.

One more question, is the Student Union still on schedule for later this year?

[NcSc74]

1977 to be precise - UNCC came within one shot of making it to the finals but eventually lost to the other cinderella team that year, Marquette.

I don't think we need football at UNCC. We have enough lousy college FB teams in this state as it is.

I know right. It looks like Wake is the best one we have now. At least they are competitve with most DIV 1 teams. For the life of me I don't understand what the problem is. UNC has the boosters, stadium, training facilities respected school etc...on top of all of that there is ample talent in NC to be one of the better teams in the nation . We just can't keep them in state. I have had it with the current crop of coaches at all of these teams. I say clean house and get someone who is a straight a@@hole and get these guys to play some ball. I'm not sure if you even follow college football but it is a major sore spot with me. I have to eat a piece of humble pie when this time of year rolls around. The amount of ragging I take at work is unbelieveable.

[AuLukey]

^^^Thanks Aussie, I must have missed that back in June.

One more question, is the Student Union still on schedule for later this year?

The article in my old post clears up pretty much all the happenings on campus but as far as I've heard, another article that is a decent read about the new growth is on nineronline this past week. Here is a little part I picked up on though:

Additional parking planned to go over the old track is still waiting to break ground. The student union construction deadlines have been continously delayed. Though we are not blaming our administration for uncontrollable elements (contractors included), they are responsible for the future of our campus. These additions will help eliminate problems.

[AuLukey]

Also, I'd like anyone who questions what college students crave, to look up polls about such things. Here are two related to this topic from NinerOnline.com:

What are you most excited about this year?

Will UNCC ever get a football team?

These polls are taken by students interested enough to read about their school on the internet. I say that fairly represents the students which actually care about the school itself, rather than the ones that just go there and go home.

[monsoon]

Ahh yes. That would jive with the the post made in the coffee house section of UrbanPlanet that stated that only 18% of college bound kids end up with a degree.

[dubone]

The $1.8b is the number for the proceeds of the "Carolina First" giving campaign. Much of that money is for direct expenditure, such as to match funds with the Y2000 Bond money to build higher quality buildings, fund scholarships and professorships, etc. Only $.73b of that $1.8b was used to increase the endowment, with a goal of $.8b. Here is the breakdown of the money (which shows that they have in the last 7 years DOUBLED the value of their endowment to $1.49b by this campaign): http://carolinafirst.unc.edu/factfinders/progress_report.pdf

Perhaps metro's sentiments are common among UNCC grads, that they are done with the school after the educational transaction. I know that is far from the culture among UNC grads. They consider it a lifelong mission to give back to the school, support the athletics, and ingrain it in every infant that they should covet to go there.

It still keeps coming back to money for me. UNCC had a recent fundraising campaign. They pursued $100m in the "It Takes A Gift" campaign and were really excited to have surpassed it to take in $116m. Contrast that to UNC's "Carolina First" campaign which was $1.8b and changed to $2b due to success. That campaign has made far more than UNCC's campaign in 2006 alone.

This isn't a vs thing. This is simply that I often hear comments on what is built in Chapel Hill and why can't that be built in Charlotte. But look at the billions of dollars in private giving that goes into Chapel Hill from its alumni.

Bringing it back to the point, football is almost always a reason for alumni to return to their alma mater and maintain a connection. It would not be for metro. It would not be for many people. (Even I have never gone back to Chapel Hill for football, but rather basketball). But it is conventional wisdom that football programs keep alumni involved and giving back to the university. But metro might also be right, that football is just a small factor in alumni giving.

Maybe the non-giving culture is both the reason that football hasn't come to UNCC, and perhaps wouldn't even work well to change it. But in my view, something must change to get giving to quadruple. I'm not joking, I think UNCC should be actively pursuing an endowment of at least $500m. The interest proceeds from a $100m endowment are not going to cover much at a university as big as UNCC.

So, I know this is just a slight tangent from the football discussion, but, to me, it is highly relevant. The UNC-Chapel Hill fundraising campaign was at $1,840m when we discussed it 2 weeks ago. It is now at $1,858m. Almost $18m were raised in two weeks or so.

This type of private fundraising would be unheard of at UNCC. But it is so crucial to the future of the school to have higher giving rates. I think it is a serious problem that many UNCC grads are disconnected and indifferent about the school after graduation. Yet, I see that all the time. I have no clue as to whether football would help the private fundraising at UNCC. It is likely just a chicken-egg scenario, where private funds can't be found for football which many perceive to be needed to get more private funds.

I know that I have North Carolina stuff all over my house, my car, and my wardrobe.

[Durhamite]

I know that I have North Carolina stuff all over my house, my car, and my wardrobe (a good 1/3 of my clothes are light blue... it's sad).

That my friend is sad ! My sister is a UNC grad and lives in DC. She doesn't recognize the difference between an inning (baseball) and a quarter (football). But, she'll attend homecoming from time to time, just to reconnect with old friends. I attended NC A&T and most of the homegrown guys there are HUGE UNC fans (basketball of course, but align with the sports program in general).

NC A&T homecoming is termed the greatest show of earth, just go to Greensboro that weekend (Oct 22 this year), the entire city is engrossed. NC A&T is the Black equivalent of UNC in the state in terms of recognition. In other words, people who never attended the school identify with the university on some level and they know homecoming captures the best concerts, parties, etc. I've met people from VA, SC and etc. who annually attend due to the magnitude of the event. There are many UNCG (no football) alumni who come back that weekend and consider that their homecoming.

When I worked in the RTP and now my gig in North Raleigh, there are UNC fans who never attending college but have successful careers and adopted the university. They donate to scholarships, etc. UNC Chapel Hill hill is an anomaly considering the success of the basketball program but NC State and Duke garner much of the same respect across the state and country.

When I lived in Denver, CO, I longed to meet someone from home. At my fitness center, I would see UNC gear everywhere. I approached several people thinking someone was from home, but UNC gear is the "in thing" and at worst, it generated conversation even though most people couldn't pinpoint NC on a map.

UNCC needs football, no matter the cost, PERIOD!

[monsoon]

But it is so crucial to the future of the school to have higher giving rates. ....

Exactly where is UNCC failing in its role of providing a good inexpensive education to it's students, that it requires football to save it from certain demise?

[Miesian Corners]

Exactly where is UNCC failing in its role of providing a good inexpensive education to it's students, that it requires football to save it from certain demise?

It's not failing them, but an expanded athetic program that inludes football would certainly help UNC Charlotte bring in more alum dollars. As has been stated before, there is no reason for an alumnus of UNCC to ever return to the campus. Compare that to those who attended UNC, Wake Forest, NC State, Duke and A&T who attend homecoming, the big game with arch rival team X, et al. When former students go back to their alma mater, they get to see first hand what the needs of the school are. They are reconnected to their past and (some) think about what legacy they can leave. They are more likely to give because they are actually on the campus.

To put in in perspecitve, the high school I went to has, like every high school in the Carolinas, a football team. Since the county school system is nearly bankrupt, it was the team's booster club that purchased new computers for the school's only computer lab. That is the difference athletics can make.

[rockhilljames]

I went to USC (South Carolina, not that West Coast school that came later). In 2004, the year I was able to find numbers for, the athletics department paid $6.3 milliion dollars in student-athelete scholarships and donated $4.5 million to the University for endowments and academics. That's actually pretty typical. That doesn't even count what the atheletics club and boosters donate to the University each year.

While not the only money maker the department has, the football program is far and away the biggest source of revenue the department has.

I'm not saying that UNCC would have that type of program right off the bat, but it would improve the quality of life for the student body, add another activity to the community, encourage a broader connection with the Charlotte community, and eventually be a money generator for the campus.

I don't see any downsides to it myself. Plus the level of high school football in the region (Charlotte and upstate SC) is so high that they would be able to recruit and be competitive early. Coastal Carolina is a good example of this.

[jednc]

That's the most intelligent arguement that's been made yet on this topic. You are dead on with all the points you make.

[Vern9r]

For anyone who lives in the area, we are going to be hanging out at the University Picasso's on Saturday, September 30th from 11:30 on. We're going to have t-shirts and a limited number of car decals for those who wish to help. If you need any info, visit Deleted- Read the rules If you can't make it, let others know where we'll be. Thanks.

[kickazzz2000]

Here is an article that shows another way that school spirit tends to bring people together: NETWORKING!

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15645321.htm

[Miesian Corners]

Here is an article that shows another way that school spirit tends to bring people together: NETWORKING!

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/15645321.htm

Amusing. The Big 10 is an athletic conference.

I especially found this paragraph of the article interesting, "Last year, when Swiacki decided to start his own marketing firm, Competitive Edge, he noticed that it helped break the ice whenever he spotted someone with a University of Wisconsin coffee mug or a University of Illinois diploma on the wall.His contacts always bonded over their shared Big Ten heritage -- the conference is best known for powerhouse football (my emphasis). Even heated rivalries, such as the one between Ohio State and Michigan, melt away when alumni connect in Charlotte, Swiacki said.They network using their school's athletic conference."

Edited October 1, 2006 by Miesian Corners

[monsoon]

^Sort of seems irrelevant to putting football at UNCC however as it doesn't seem likely it would join the "Big 11" anytime in the foreseeable future even if they manage to get a football team there, which isn't going to happen.

[MZT]

It seems appropriate that a city the size of Charlotte and a large university like UNCC should be able to support college football, especially if Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, and Greensboro can. Heck, the colleges in these cities were probably very small, when they began their programs.

I'll probably never "get" why this matters so much to people, though. I've had tinnitus since being a teenager. Cheering, whistling crowds cause unpleasant sensations in my head... So I never gave any thought to attending the games while I was at NC State. (Although loud music at rock concerts can be OK. It's the audience reactions, that are the problem.)

Edited October 1, 2006 by MZT

[AuLukey]

Coming to you live from Gainesville, FL here. I now share a completely different light on the impact college football has on a community. I came down here to visit my friend who treated me to the Florida-Alabama game this week. Let me tell you, I've been to plenty'a Panthers games and they don't even hold a candle to the level of excitement and community involved with college football games.

I now realize that the size of a city makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. Gainesville: Population 100,000, the game I just went to Saturday while visiting a friend hosted 90,000 people. Swallow those numbers.

The city has been alive the entire time I've been here. Gainesville lives, eats, and breathes football from Thursday until Sunday. Talking to my friends here about the subject of the costs of a football team, they pointed out a few facts that I had never previously considered as I haven't gotten the chance to regularly go to college football games due to the fact that UCharlotte doesn't have one. To call it an economy driver is to say the very least. EVERY business in the city was packed. Yards and empty lots a mile away became parking areas where people were paying 25+ bucks a pop to park. For anybody with a house in the UC area, fit ten cars in your yard and you've got a cool 250 bucks for five hours of your time. Along with this, some alumni pay millions of dollars in donations for specific seats and stadium-side parking. There are also some alumni that buy a house around the stadium just to use for parking their RV.

In light of this observation, I believe that if they do someday build a stadium for UNCC, they should not build it directly on campus. They should build it a little further down N Tryon towards uptown and the city should pay to put up a network of roadways around it; or just build the stadium near to uptown. The reason I say this is because these games produce a lot more foot traffic than I had previously expected. I mean the fact that BOA Stadium hosts 50,000 while Ben Hill Memorial hosts 90,000 should at least tell you something.

Yes, granted Florida football is celebrating its 100 year this season; it is obviously an investment for the future. I mean, if we were to ever establish any kind of citywide pride in this college, athletics is really the only way. Communities don't gather for spelling bees at Harvard or Yale. Yes, education is important, but that's not how you build a community. And not to brag on Florida, but it is the shining example of how you can have good programs in multiple sports. They are nationally ranked in at least four different sports programs.

If education was the only important aspect to college, then why are these millionaire alumni paying all this money to park at the stadium? It's certainly not to utilize the school's library.

[monsoon]

..... Communities don't gather for spelling bees at Harvard or Yale. Yes, education is important, but that's not how you build a community. .....

I think that pretty much sums up what is wrong about this argument. Nobody has proven that UNCC is failing at what it does in any way, nobody has proven the alumni are not proud of that school, nobody has proven the city isn't supporting UNCC, and nobody has proven the majority of people are intersted in football. The football boosters my have deluded themselves into believing this, but belief does not mean proof.

Question, do you want UNCC to become like Harvard & Yale,...... or hold your breath...... the University of Florida? Well, I can tell you how most people would answer. Aussie Luke, if UNCC is such a dullard school, exactly why are you attending the place?

[dubone]

Harvard and Yale have football programs. It is the basis for their label the "Ivy League".

Frankly, UNCC will never be like Harvard or Yale if it cannot dramatically increase its endowment. The money is what has afforded the ivy league schools the resources to hire the brightest minds in all fields, created the best research facilities, etc.

I don't care if UNCC has football or not. But in my view, something needs to be done to try to dramatically increase giving rates.

I don't think UNCC will be taken seriously nationally until it develops its endowment, and uses the money to break away from the pack of thousands of other state-supported schools.

It is great for what most people use it for, a low cost undergraduate education. And if that is all UNCC wants to be, then that is perfectly fine. Thousands of other schools are content with that, too. But I know many circles that look down on the school, primarily because of the low skill level of specific graduates they have worked with. Higher competion in selection is important for weeding out those people that bring shame on the university. But higher competition won't come if the university is what it is now, a low cost teaching university with very little money to spend over and above the very spartan state subsidy.

Football isn't the answer, but I think many people feel that it is part of the answer for increasing alumni giving rates, and bringing more applicants.

[monsoon]

..... But I know many circles that look down on the school, primarily because of the low skill level of specific graduates they have worked with. .....

Given that you went to UNC, I am not surprised at a remark such as that. The only consistant criticism of UNCC that I have ever heard has come from graduates of UNC and NC State. If UNCC is doing so poorly in giving people an education, they would not be growing at the rate they are and one day it will be larger than the two former schools I just mentioned. I have worked with graduates from UNC, NC State, etc that make me wonder how they even made it into school, much less graduated. However I hold the student responsible for this and not the school that provided the education.