UNC Charlotte Football

[dubone]

I'm only responding to the implication that there is no room for improvement at UNCC. I work with many people that I am shocked about their low level of skills, invariably from UNCC.

I admit, though, there are also many idiots at UNC due to county quotas. There are also, obviously, smart people from UNCC, and a number of good programs, so I'm not disparaging anyone's degree. But I believe there is room for improvement and that private money is the primary answer.

It's not my school though, so do as you please. I will, however, continue to judge the school by its output.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I agree with dubone that there is certainly room for improvement. As a student I see much room for improvement on several fronts. On the quality of students, I have friends here that are quite smart, but many shouldn't be attending college.

Admissions standards need to be significantly tightened. I'm convinced doing that would bring about better school spirit, lower dropout rates, and higher giving rates, at little cost. The school should continue to pursue new graduate programs, and develop its current undergraduate offerings.

Other fronts that need improvement are facilities, academic programs, and reputation. Facilities is a matter of money, quality of academic programs is probably a matter of money as well, and reputation can be improved by working on the other fronts while raising admissions standards

UC-Irvine is about the same age as UNC Charlotte, has no football team, has a good academic reputation, and contributes much to its region. I think that is model we should strive towards. Unless I’m missing something, UC is probably the system UNC should look to.

Edited October 2, 2006 by moonshield

[monsoon]

Indeed. UC-Irvine is a nationally known school as well. UNCC's biggest issue isn't the giving by its alumni, but rather a state university system that still treats it as second class, and my guess is the reason behind it is that it is located in Charlotte. We all know the bias against state institutions that are located in this city.

[DanRNC]

The student quality across the UNC system is rather poor including UNC and NCSU. The UNC undergrads that stand out for the most part are out-of-state students who have to jump through hoops to get in to UNC. I am TAing an undergrad pharm class at Duke and have been blown away by the intellect of these students-too bad most of these kids will leave NC.

[dubone]

And for the record, I was an out of state student at UNC and I stayed in NC. I have long been a critic of UNC'S low standards for rural counties, as they have quotas that favor poor and rural counties. This, however, results in those students dropping out due to their inability to handle the rigor. I met a few of those my freshman year.

I'm also a proponent of increasing the out of state to instate ratios to be like Virginia, which has 33% out of state students. Not only does it increase the competitiveness of spots, which helps everyone excel their best, but it exposes in state students to more ways of thinking.

In general, I will say that it is a major problem in our society to consider all schools equal for fear of upsetting others. Without classification and stratification, there ends up being little respect for programs and schools that work very hard to improve academics.

[AuLukey]

Well met, to answer your blatant attack of my opinion, football is not the answer, stop using that, nobody said it was THE answer. It's a step, one of many the school still has yet to undertake. Even small things like building the new entrance in front of the school is a step. That, for example, helps the community recognize the university as an integral peace of our city. The new entrance compared to the current is a step to show the school has a little more pride in itself.

You went around the entire fact of it being an economic generator. My argument is less to get the school on the "popularity map" and more on what people wear. If the school shows no pride in itself, and academics is not surpassing CH, NCSU, or Duke any time this century, nobody will be running around in our colors. And no, before you say that is childish, it's not the actual fact that people wear our school, but that they care about it. That alumni give millions of dollars to park at UF says enough to me about what motivates alumni. You can't get excited about academics, I mean, it just doesn't have that appeal, and the alumni don't get any rewards. Woo, we built a new alumni house, big deal. I don't think they will increase donations. It will make the school look a little nicer to returning alumni, but I doubt it will have an impact on how much they give, because frankly, most people want something in return. Chapel Hill, do some alumni not buy season tickets to basketball games but pay way more than the actual price of the tickets to get them?

Do I want Charlotte to become UF? Hah, that's an understatement. Their academics ARE better than Charlotte's, maybe even NCSU's too (not trying to offend any patrons, just stating an observation.)

Why do I go to Charlotte? Well, I'm pretty sure I stated this earlier on, but the reason is because my parents bribed me to stay in state, and convinced me life would be easier if I went to Charlotte (for cheaper tuition) and could just drive up to Concord whenever I wanted free food and/or laundry. I now realize it was a mistake and I actually hold it against them.

I still love UNCC, but do I really care if that's where I graduate from? Why? Nobody outside of students, some alumni, and faculty actually care about the school. Saying you go to Charlotte right now says about as much as saying you went to Appalachian (again, no offense.) And yes, I'm aware I just went against nearly everything I've just said, but my trip down to Florida opened up my eyes to what is actually out there. Charlotte's a great school and I hope I can finish my B.A. there and not have to hassle with transfer losses, and that is the specific reason I am still there. If you are comparing drop out rates, you may want to look at transfer rates too. A lot of my friends from freshmen year transferred elsewhere. The majority of my new friends that have transferred to Charlotte from other schools have transferred from local community colleges.

Charlotte's reputation will continue to build regardless of football, thus, a degree with its name on it may someday become just as big of a deal as one with "at Chapel Hill" written on it. That is my other motivating factor to stay at Charlotte. While it isn't an icon now, it may someday become one. I'd like to help it get there. Building towards a future is a much bigger accomplishment than riding on your throne.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Honestly, if the stands aren't sold out every game for a basketball team that consistently makes the NCAA tourney with 20+ win seasons, I don't see how a football team that will be terrible for years, will attract this following you speak of. Everytime I see Duke or UNCCH football on TV, I see lots of empty seats (and sometimes more fans for the other team).

People don't wear UNCCH and Duke gear because of the football team! They wear the gear because they are proud of the school, and the basketball programs. (I must comment that lots of Duke and UNCCH gear is worn by people that didn't go to the school, I'm not quite sure why any would do that). Strengthening admission standards would help on the pride issue, as many students wouldn't view the school as their last resort or safety school. Strengthening standards would be less expensive and have far reaching effects.

Football just seems like a flippant waste of resources.

--

There is much to be excited about in coming years. Personally, I'm very excited about the uptown campus, the LRT to campus, and the new CRI. That stuff is a great move in the right direction. Getting the city and the university on the same page will only bring tremendous benefits. Charlotte needs to develop its fledgling high-tech and research industries more than it needs another sports team. Taking away administrative focus from the core goals of the university can only result in poor implementation of the primary foci of the institution. I may be wrong on what the core goals are, but I would think that they would be: excellent academics, top-flight research, and regional economic development.

Edited October 2, 2006 by moonshield

[cinco]

^ well put, and while i can see the other side of the coin i couldn't agree more with your post.

[monsoon]

..... I may be wrong on what the core goals are, but I would think that they would be: excellent academics, top-flight research, and regional economic development.

I don't think you are wrong at all.

[Miesian Corners]

Honestly, if the stands aren't sold out every game for a basketball team that consistently makes the NCAA tourney with 20+ win seasons, I don't see how a football team that will be terrible for years, will attract this following you speak of. Everytime I see Duke or UNCCH football on TV, I see lots of empty seats (and sometimes more fans for the other team).

People don't wear UNCCH and Duke gear because of the football team! They wear the gear because they are proud of the school, and the basketball programs. (I must comment that lots of Duke and UNCCH gear is worn by people that didn't go to the school, I'm not quite sure why any would do that). Strengthening admission standards would help on the pride issue, as many students wouldn't view the school as their last resort or safety school. Strengthening standards would be less expensive and have far reaching effects.

Football just seems like a flippant waste of resources.

There is much to be excited about in coming years. Personally, I'm very excited about the uptown campus, the LRT to campus, and the new CRI. That stuff is a great move in the right direction. Getting the city and the university on the same page will only bring tremendous benefits. Charlotte needs to develop its fledgling high-tech and research industries more than it needs another sports team. Taking away administrative focus from the core goals of the university can only result in poor implementation of the primary foci of the institution. I may be wrong on what the core goals are, but I would think that they would be: excellent academics, top-flight research, and regional economic development.

Where'd you go to school, Moon?

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I attend UNC Charlotte.

Edited October 3, 2006 by moonshield

[dubone]

Moonshield, I think you are starting to sway me a bit on the original question of the thread.

But I think there is another question that underlies this whole pursuit. How does the university drive increased participation, interest, and money from its alumni? I only have a casual observation of this, but I have heard it repeated by many many people that this is the case among UNCC's alumni.

I agree that the uptown campus will have much more impact on many of its core goals than football could ever. I also agree that the state bonds for building up the campus will have a pervasive effect.

To me, though, it always comes back to endowment and private operational giving. I cannot think of a greater tangeable impediment to academics than a shortage of funds, and those funds will never sufficiently come through politicians at the state level.

Why is it that the uptown museums can plan for an endowment of $80m for 4 little museums, whereas UNCC only has $100m. My mind just can get around that. It is so paltry for a university of 20k+ students! No wonder people keep complaining about the legislature, it is practically their only source of funds.

I have a hunch that football would be a net benefit, but if there are other ways to build up the primary mission of the school and funds to support that mission, then I'm MORE for those. I'd just like to see some tall goals, rather that just hearing everyone blame it on Raleigh. Why is no one trying to raise half a billion by 2015, or a 2020 plan to raise a billion dollars? At least start trying. Instead, they just finished their goal of $100m. These days, that doesn't buy you much.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Dubone, I agree with you. Ambitious goals are needed, and $100 million simply isn't enough. Raising money for public institutions isn't something I know too much about, but athletics doesn't look like the winning direction. As I mentioned in my last post, the basketball program is evidence of that. Fans don't even support the winner.

Most of my points revolve around future alumni: bringing admission standards to appropriate levels, and developing programs should create an alumni base that feels their school provided them with an advantage and something that they can feel proud to have attended.

Football may provide a net positive, but such an undertaking isn't something the administration needs to focus on when projects like the CRI and building strong academic programs should be the primary focus.

Maybe it's just a matter of not having enough alumni in the grave as you suggested earlier. hehe

I wrote a long post, but didn't like how it sounded. I'm too tired to provide a coherent post, I need my rest. I'll probably be back tomorrow morning.

Edited October 3, 2006 by moonshield

[monsoon]

Why is it that the uptown museums can plan for an endowment of $80m for 4 little museums, whereas UNCC only has $100m. My mind just can get around that. It is so paltry for a university of 20k+ students! No wonder people keep complaining about the legislature, it is practically their only source of funds.

I note these 4 museums managed this without having to have a football team. This just further proves there is no requirement that giving is hinged on college sports, and I have yet to see any proof posted there where that might be the case for UNCC. I have also yet to see anyone post proof that a person can't get a good education at UNCC. I am not sure there is a problem here that needs to be fixed.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Indeed. I've decided I have little more to say, but I will end in saying the alumni giving will increase while pride increases, that means expanding programs, strengthening standards, and improving reputation, and that public-private partnerships will probably increase with the CRI.

I will have to wait and see what effects the Uptown campus and the CRI have before commenting further.

[cinco]

Indeed. I've decided I have little more to say, but I will end in saying the alumni giving will increase while pride increases, that means expanding programs, strengthening standards, and improving reputation, and that public-private partnerships will probably increase with the CRI.

I will have to wait and see what effects the Uptown campus and the CRI have before commenting further.

i agree. however, a posted concern i see in this thread alot... is the fact that football (particularly homecoming) gives the alumni a reason to go back to the school for pride & fellowship. not only do the alum enjoy that, but i'm sure it is an (un)conscience factor that plays a part in their contributions. it seems there is a disconnect without some sort of pilgrimage back to the source of pride.

as it stands now - what @ uncc, is pulling back it's alumni for a similar reunion... what, other than sports could provide this sort of pride?

uncc is set in a strange enviornment... there are no quaint downtowns, mom & pop shops, or even a real sense of community.... uncc doesn't even have that to offer alumni. it would be nice if the focus of bettering the schools pride were on educational aspects, community, and connectivity. LTR to UC will be of great service to the university.

i understand the power of sports, that brings people together.... but, when i think about it in terms of what makes a school great... it just seems counter intuitive. i just wish, there were something other than sports that rallied the troops as much. i would love to see a school like uncc, buck the national trend... to forge a new path by embracing some of the examples given by moonshield (& others). JMO.

[jimmyhat49er]

Why do we need a football team???

We feel a football team is the only way UNC Charlotte will be able to take the next step and become a university where students proudly wear their 49er apparel and return to campus every year after graduation to attend a football game and visit with friends and reconnect with their university. Currently many students attend UNC Charlotte because they couldn't get into UNC, NC State or Clemson or decided UNC Charlotte was a better fit academically; but they maintain their allegiances to those schools and even wear those schools

[cinco]

edit - to the max.

Edited October 3, 2006 by cinco

[monsoon]

Why do we need a football team???......

I deleted your first post here as you don't get to insult the other people on this forum because you disagree with their opinion. If you have some facts to point out why they may be incorrect in what they have stated then by all means present them but otherwise until you establish yourself here, be careful in how you address the other members of this site.

With the rest of your post, you have re-stated every argument that has already been made in for football in this thread, and I will say again, nobody has provided any tangible proof there is a problem here that needs to be fixed. Just because other large schools have football teams isn't a reason for there to be one at UNCC. If the supporters of football want to raise the money on their own for football then please have at it, but don't ask the taxpayers to support it unless there is a cost justification that will support the case for doing so. That has not been produced either. We have too many other needs in this city, to waste tax money, IMO, on a football team at UNCC.

[AuLukey]

jimmyhat, while I do have to agree (obviously) with many of your points, I wouldn't go as far as saying that football is the only way to gather support. Look at Duke and Carolina, their football programs are horrible and nobody goes to their games, however, schools that have nationally ranked programs get millions more in contributions than schools who can't win a game. That is nearly a given. The turn-around for UNCC would be to have an excellent basketball season again, maybe a final four appearance, and then basketball could have nearly the same effect. However, the likelyhood of Charlotte continuing its ranked appearances as it has (fairly) consistently done over the last decade is about as likely as the Bobcats making the playoffs this year.

I do believe that the football homecoming game IS a major reason why a lot of alumni come back. Even at schools where the football teams aren't any good, many alumni come back to visit old friends and celebrate their school spirit.

My only point on here is the theory of making steps towards a goal. Community and alumni pride takes many things, not just athletics, education or size. It's a combination of those things combined with the attitude a person leaves a school with. If we could just get people wearing green apparel instead of blue, red, orange, etc, that would also be a step towards campus pride.

I hope the public won't have to pocket the football program, nor do I think the UNC system would even let them start one up if that were the case; Charlotte's football program has to come from donations in order to be successful. Let's hope that happens.

[jimmyhat49er]

jimmyhat, while I do have to agree (obviously) with many of your points, I wouldn't go as far as saying that football is the only way to gather support. Look at Duke and Carolina, their football programs are horrible and nobody goes to their games, however, schools that have nationally ranked programs get millions more in contributions than schools who can't win a game. That is nearly a given. The turn-around for UNCC would be to have an excellent basketball season again, maybe a final four appearance, and then basketball could have nearly the same effect. However, the likelyhood of Charlotte continuing its ranked appearances as it has (fairly) consistently done over the last decade is about as likely as the Bobcats making the playoffs this year.

Don't let recent failure fool you, Duke has had plenty of success in football historically including being the last NC school to win a ACC championship. And while Carolina has not been very successful under Bunting and maybe they don't sell out every game, they do get at least 50,000 there for every game and that isn't to shabby. The fact is without football our strong basketball program is eroding by the year. Because we lacked football our best option was the A-10 when the conference re-alignment occured, if we had football we would be in the Big East right now. Re-alignment will happen again in the next 15 years and without football we will be left out in the cold once again. It will take a miracle to reach the final 4 while in the A-10, recruits want to play big games on TV and that doesn't happen very much in the A-10. Think about the disadvantage our coaches have now with fall recruits. At other schools recruits are visiting during big football games and experiencing a real college atmosphere, when the visit Charlotte in the fall on weekends they are visiting a ghost town. It is a tribute to what incredible coaches we have that we have the success that we do.

I hope the public won't have to pocket the football program, nor do I think the UNC system would even let them start one up if that were the case; Charlotte's football program has to come from donations in order to be successful. Let's hope that happens.

The most we would get as far as public assistance would be infrastructure such as roads, but other than that no tax money can be used. It will have to come from student fees and private funding.

[jimmyhat49er]

Anybody see the guy on Fox Got Game talking about football??

Edited October 16, 2006 by jimmyhat49er

[monsoon]

Anybody see the guy on Fox Got Game talking about football??

Funny that he doesn't know the difference between Winthrop and Wingate or even that there is college football right in downtown Charlotte via JC Smith University. If people are so hell bent on attending college football games, I don't see why there isn't more support for the team that we do have right in downtown. Their stadium is right off I-77 directly across from 4th Ward.

[jednc]

Funny that he doesn't know the difference between Winthrop and Wingate or even that there is college football right in downtown Charlotte via JC Smith University. If people are so hell bent on attending college football games, I don't see why there isn't more support for the team that we do have right in downtown. Their stadium is right off I-77 directly across from 4th Ward.

Really? You don't understand that? Hmmm...I think the rest of us do.

[AuLukey]

Really? You don't understand that? Hmmm...I think the rest of us do.

Heh, sadly, I have to second that point.

Drive ten miles away from the campus and ask people where JCSU is located. I'd be surprised if even 50% knew it was in Charlotte, let alone where the school is.