July Forum Meet Wrap Up

[doormanpoet]

I did not officially count, but we had a nice group today with 3 new members, Doug, Jennna and PTurbo (Paul).I am guessing 15 enjoyed coffee and fellowship.

David was with us from MDHA and although he told us he was leaving in a week, he gave us some insightful information on how MDHA works, what the historic districts were ,and how the aquisition of these surface parking lots for development is not an easy task. My dreams for endless towers in downtown on surface parkig lots may stay a dream! David gave the opinion of which I agreed in applause that Nashville has not been pro skyscraper in the past.

The Westin (and honky tonks) was the better part of the discussion and how Anne Roberts thought the idea of a tower that close to Broadway turned her stomach. I mentioned it seemed like politics and I thought it was ridiculous the future of Nashville rested upon her gastro intestinal fortitude. It seems the Nashville Historical Commission does not have logic in it's decisions on what properties should be saved and which are allowed to be destroyed. (Sorry Anne if you read this. Take a Tums, they work.)

West End Summit came up as usual, and of course I mentioned my disdain for it while Smeagols praised it! Oh the fun of urban discussion!

Lexy and Cassie mentioned the razing of a civil war mansion destroyed by a developer in Murfreesboro. We were all disappointed that could not be saved.

We went to the Encore site on our walk and we noticed caissons were going to be coming out of the ground sometime this fall as the holes for the footers were being excavated.

The Schermerhorn looked beautiful and the Hampton Inn Suites is well on it's way. We speculated on the Monroe Carrell property and then Doug and Jenna had to go. We ended up at the Segway Dealership on 3rd Avenue South and we got a tour along with a demonstration on the product. We actually tried them out. Dave did not want to let go as he rode the Segway around the room with the glee of a child riding their first bike!

Please feel free to ad your comments! Thanks to all for a wondeful meet.

See, we can have fun without William!

John the Honky Tonk Doorman

[Hankster]

Sounds like loads of fun as unusal. I wish I could have been there. Maybe by the time the next forum meet in held, we will know something more definitive on the WES and Velocity projects. I plan on being there and giving everyone specifics on a forum meet in Chattanooga the following week.

[Skyscrapergeek]

As John said it was a really good meet today. One VERY interesting thing David said was that he thought the Bass, Berry & Simms project might be the battlefield for the war versus good and evil in determining the height of buildings in SoBro. (That is my description not his. Obviously tall is good, short is evil. ) And all along I thought Armageddon was to be fought on the plains of northern Israel. Anyway, he said the plan for this building may be "considerably taller" than the current allowance. Tall is totally going to win. Why? HIGH ground of course.

Now if I could just decide how I'm going to spend my next $5,000.00. A new Segway or reserving a condo in Signature Tower.

[it's just dave]

I had a great time. As Ron (smeaglosfree) said, "almost old enough to be on the Historic Register" (hehe, thanks Ron), but the doorman still gives me credit for child-like giddiness. Ah, bliss is good.

I've come to appreciate these get togethers with our new friends more than ever. Looking to doubling it up in August.

Let's save our pennies, a Segway tour could be in our future.

[Hankster]

Let's save our pennies, a Segway tour could be in our future.

Hey Dave, what's it like riding on one of those things?

[it's just dave]

I think we all agreed that would be a piece of cake after getting used to letting a machine know what you're thinking. The balance, a first is a little tricky, but if I remember back a couple of hundred years, not even close to learning to ride a bike. Much easier. All it takes is a bit of trust.

I could kill a good exercise regime...you'd never leave home without it.

An interesting thing about them is that by greenway standards, they're not considered motorized vehicles, so in most states, they're greenway friendly. That's a big plus.

Mark, the man who owns the dealership, told us most often on the tours, they concentrate on the Bicentennial Mall area and the Cumberland Greenway all the way to Riverfront Park. I might have to do that.

[smeagolsfree]

Fun as always, and fun catching John talking out of both ends. But that is his way of stirring the pot. I love it!!!!

Dave is right in the fact that I may join him on the register of historical places. But he will be there first. I may have misspoke though. Dave is going to be on the national register of hysterical places. I think I am already there.

David with the MDHA made a neat comment about the proposed Bass Berry building in Sobro. He said that they wanted to build it considerably higher than the 225 or so feet allowed there. I wonder if any one has gotten a rendering of that building. Another comment I got out of him was the fact that Gateway partners has got a plan for the 12th and Demonbreun property. Maybe some of us could dig around and see what we can uncover. This is the property that Universal/TDS tires is on. There are about 3 acres there. If this has something going on it soon along with the Rhythm Lofts and the W, then Demonbreun is going to be a hot bed of activity over the next couple of years and expand the Gateway to the CBD and even things out for brother John.

[ATLBrain]

Sounds like you guys had a great time. Maybe my sched will allow me to make one in the future.

Regarding the BBS tower. Who is the purported developer? Also, did David say anything about the chances for the Westin? Hasn't it already been put before planning the first time?

The only thing I remember about Ann Roberts was that several buildings were demolished when I lived in Nash... and she appeared to be completely blindsided by it. It seems that the Historical Commission isn't ahead of "the curve". Maybe she and her group don't do the things necessary to educate property owners and would-be developers before the horse gets out of the barn... or they proceed with their plans. Also, she might need to learn that the carrot can be much more effective than the stick. Have I used enough metaphors?

[Skyscrapergeek]

Brain, David said Westin isn't dead but from what he and others are hearing, it may be on life support. Not very encouraging.

[Hankster]

David with the MDHA made a neat comment about the proposed Bass Berry building in Sobro. He said that they wanted to build it considerably higher than the 225 or so feet allowed there. I wonder if any one has gotten a rendering of that building. Another comment I got out of him was the fact that Gateway partners has got a plan for the 12th and Demonbreun property. Maybe some of us could dig around and see what we can uncover. This is the property that Universal/TDS tires is on. There are about 3 acres there. If this has something going on it soon along with the Rhythm Lofts and the W, then Demonbreun is going to be a hot bed of activity over the next couple of years and expand the Gateway to the CBD and even things out for brother John.

I assume the Bass Berry building in SoBro is the office building rumored to be about 45 stories. If that's true, it could be taller that the Batman building. Do you think there's any chance of getting a skyplane variance that high in SoBro? I think it may be impossible now, but as a true lover of skyscrapers, I'd love to see it.

I think before long brother John will realize that the amount of development going into downtown Nashville is way more than can be contained in the central business district by itself. It's inevitable that the development move into to other areas simply because of the sheer amount of development coupled with the lack of approriate building sites in the Central Business District. I hope those involved in granting the skyplane variance for the Bass Berry building will take that into account. Major office building expansion may have to take place in places like SoBro, the Gulch, and even mid-town (especially points close to I-40).

[hayesmw]

I assume the Bass Berry building in SoBro is the office building rumored to be about 45 stories. If that's true, it could be taller that the Batman building. Do you think there's any chance of getting a skyplane variance that high in SoBro? I think it may be impossible now, but as a true lover of skyscrapers, I'd love to see it.

I think before long brother John will realize that the amount of development going into downtown Nashville is way more than can be contained in the central business district by itself. It's inevitable that the development move into to other areas simply because of the sheer amount of development coupled with the lack of approriate building sites in the Central Business District. I hope those involved in granting the skyplane variance for the Bass Berry building will take that into account. Major office building expansion may have to take place in places like SoBro, the Gulch, and even mid-town (especially points close to I-40).

Barry Cos. out of Atlanta is the developer.

Less than 25 stories, around 255' or 265 is the goal.

You won't find many office buildings in the US or southeast in particular 45 stories tall. That would be 800k +/- SF. Way too big at this time for this market.

[Hankster]

Barry Cos. out of Atlanta is the developer.

Less than 25 stories, around 255' or 265 is the goal.

You won't find many office buildings in the US or southeast in particular 45 stories tall. That would be 800k +/- SF. Way too big at this time for this market.

Up to 25 stories sounds a lot more resonable to me. If it's about 255 to 265 ft and all office, that would equate to no more than 20 stories. I found the rumors of 45 stories that have been floating around pretty hard to believe.

[smeagolsfree]

Barry Cos. out of Atlanta is the developer.

Less than 25 stories, around 255' or 265 is the goal.

You won't find many office buildings in the US or southeast in particular 45 stories tall. That would be 800k +/- SF. Way too big at this time for this market.

Thanks for the info Michael. Its great to get some insider info as we can here and you have an inside track. Do you have any info on the Gateway Partners development @ 12th and Demonbreun?? I am real curious about what they have in store there.

[doormanpoet]

Unless its NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston or maybe Dallas, I doubt there will be much office tower development anywhere else. My prediction is that most tower development is going to be hotels and condos. If you go to SSP, there is a thread there with the listing of all buildings over 295 feet (actually 300 I don't know why they chose 295) under construction starting in 2006, and 90% of them are residential units. 90 in Chicago alone. Keep in mind that Suntrust Bank and the Sheraton are 299 feet and the BOA Building is 292 feet, so this BBS tower wont even be that tall. The Cumberland is 236 feet @24 stories.

The rumoured Hyatt on the Monroe Carell property, is just a rumour. Sources I have in the hotel industry state Hyatt is downsizing, not adding properties. Remember for Signature to be 1047 feet and 65 stories, Tony needs a hotel. He will sell the condo's, but can he get a hotel?

With all due respect to my forumer friends who support WES, Can Palmer really fill a 500,000 square foot office tower?

[pturbo]

It was cool putting some faces to screen names. I'll try to make the walking tour next time.

And "Yes", Palmer can find a way to fill up the office space. He will sell it to a leasing company and then it will be their problem.

[cdkoellein]

Glad to have made it to the discussion on Saturday morning. I enjoy sharing conversation with other folks who are interested in urban development in Nashville.

Point of clarification about the Westin project: I want to be sure that everyone knows that I have an infinite amount of respect for Ann Roberts and her opinions. She is one of the sharpest folks I know. Her thoughts on the Westin project are logical and represent a well-formed point of view. Of course, not everyone will agree with her position about the project, but I hope that nothing I said about the facts of the review process would be miscontrued. I have nothing but admiration for Ann and hope my conversation reflected that.

Also, I do not think Nashville, when it comes to the downtown core, has not been supportive of tall buildings in the past. On the contrary, there are several highrises approved in the CBD now. I do think we have not had adequate opportunity to wrestle with all of the design issues associated with skyscrapers, their locations, and their contributions to our skyline.

I shared no information on Saturday that was not already public record or otherwise widely known. There is clearly much to be excited about in downtown Nashville right now, and I will look forward to watching the cranes with the rest of you.

[it's just dave]

And we're happy to have you too, cdk. You add such new dimensions to the discussions. I'm sure I represent the rest of us when I say that I hope you'll continue to join us when possible. Thanks for being there.

[smeagolsfree]

Great to have met a few new people and welcome to the forum.

[hayesmw]

Thanks for the info Michael. Its great to get some insider info as we can here and you have an inside track. Do you have any info on the Gateway Partners development @ 12th and Demonbreun?? I am real curious about what they have in store there.

Noting concrete. Just a few rumors. Those developers and architects are all friends, but I have not had the chance to ask the question. I'd assume office and residential.

[doormanpoet]

Welcome CDK! Enjoyed your comments. As you can tell, we are all passionate about the built environment. I may form a human shield around the WES site to force them to build in the CBD! I may buy Anne Roberts a new BMW to change her mind! What can I do for you to change your mind on Signature Tower?

[cdkoellein]

Welcome CDK! Enjoyed your comments. As you can tell, we are all passionate about the built environment. I may form a human shield around the WES site to force them to build in the CBD! I may buy Anne Roberts a new BMW to change her mind! What can I do for you to change your mind on Signature Tower?

You will find that once my mind is made up, it is generally sealed shut. Hard to change it. I am in the market for a new car, however.... There is much to like about Signature Tower, and I will be glad to see it going up. I am rooting for a future downtown that rises to meet Signature's aspirations and helps to provide the skyline with a new, taller layer of balance.