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Kayak1

Ray Nagin

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I have recently read "The Great Deluge" by Doug Brinkley? After reading that book it is hard for me to understand how Ray Nagin got re-elected. I know I am a Yankee from Michigan but please explain. Was it a case of "You got us in this mess, you better get us out"? Please explain to an ignorant northerner.

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Well, you have to understand, 1) what went on in the New Orleans mayoral election, and 2) politics in Louisiana.

Out of the candidates running, I thought, as did many, Rob Couhig was the best choice for mayor. But it ended up with Ray Nagin and Mitch Landrieu in the runoff. The Landrieu family has a long political history in the state, Mitch's father was a previous mayor of New Orleans, his sister is the lead senator for Louisiana, and on and on. The last thing we really need in Louisiana is even more family politics, especially in New Orleans. And that had a lot to do with Landrieu not getting elected.

Ray Nagin on the other hand, isn't even a politician. He is a business man who was a general manager and vice president at Cox Communications before running for and being elected as mayor of New Orleans in 2002. Under his leadership, the city went through 4 years with no political corruption in the mayor's office, something that sadly, is a big deal in New Orleans. He brought business growth to the city, moved the economy forward, brought new development to the city, worked to improve the infrastructure, etc. And again, all without corruption on his end. Many people base their views on Ray Nagin on the last few months he was in office, after Katrina, which is when the majority of people across the nation saw him. They saw him make stupid mistakes like the "Chocolate City" speech, or failing in many situations to evacuate the city of New Orleans before Katrina. But they didn't see him in the first 3 1/2 years as mayor, when he lead the city forward, and brought it closer to getting out of the economic hole it has been in for the last 40 years. Flat out, Ray Nagin is a New Orleanian, who loves the city just as much as we do. Yea, he screwed up in Katrina, but then again, so did everyone else. We know he doesn't have problems with corruption, and we know that he has all kinds of experience with business, which will help trememdously now and beyond when we need to bring businesses, conventions, developers, and tourists back to the city. Again, we all know he screwed up in Katrina, but you can't base your opinion on him as mayor soley based on his last few months in office during his first term. It's not really a "you got us into this, you'll get us out" mentallity, but we do realize that the man lead the city closer to getting out of a hole more than it has in a very long time, and we all have confidence that he will lead the city he loves out of a different hole after Katrina, and continue to improve this great city.

Also, just a note that helped Nagin's case in running for mayor: He does have a very good relashionship with President Bush and the White House post-Katrina, and that does help very much in a post-Katrina New Orleans.

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He won because he carried the wealthy Uptown Republican vote...PERIOD. There was no way these people were going to vote for a liberal Democrat, and they carry the swing vote.

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He won because he carried the wealthy Uptown Republican vote...PERIOD. There was no way these people were going to vote for a liberal Democrat, and they carry the swing vote.

Very true. This was extremely obvious at about the 80% mark in the mayoral election, when Nagin jumped from below Landrieu, to way above him in the polls.

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One of my coworkers showed us a photo, earlier this week, of him posing with Ray Nagin. He said he was in a restaurant in New Orleans a few weeks back and saw him, so he ran over to get his picture taken with him.

It's a shame Nagin is too shallow to realize that it was obviously meant as a joke.

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Are you a Nagin supporter, Brian?

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Are you a Nagin supporter, Brian?

I most certainly hope you're joking.

Or out of your mind.

But in all fairness, I don't know enough about New Orleans politics.

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I most certainly hope you're joking.

Or out of your mind.

But in all fairness, I don't know enough about New Orleans politics.

No, I'm being serious.

I didn't think Nagin was the best man for the job in the '06 election, but I would rather have him in office right now than Mitch Landrieu.

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No, I'm being serious.

I didn't think Nagin was the best man for the job in the '06 election, but I would rather have him in office right now than Mitch Landrieu.

No, not a Nagin fan. But like I said, I know nothing about New Orleans politics... aside from what makes it on the national news.

I'd have much preferred almost anyone but Nagin or Landrieu get elected. But since I didn't have a say, all I can do is sit here in Shreveport and say these things about a city that's so far removed from my area.

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I'm not so sure about Nagin anymore. We still aren't getting strong leadership from him. Lets see what his "plan" is for the city that he announced that he was going to announce in the future at some point. :wacko: One thing that I keep clinging to is that the man is not corrupt. He really isn't. We just need him to step forward with a plan and go with it. We seem to be a rudderless ship at the moment.

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I'm not so sure about Nagin anymore. We still aren't getting strong leadership from him. Lets see what his "plan" is for the city that he announced that he was going to announce in the future at some point. :wacko: One thing that I keep clinging to is that the man is not corrupt. He really isn't. We just need him to step forward with a plan and go with it. We seem to be a rudderless ship at the moment.

You make very good points. And on the flipside, everyone in Louisiana knows about the corruption surrounding the Landrieu Clan. It really did come down to the lesser of the two evils... and Landrieu needed not win.

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You make very good points. And on the flipside, everyone in Louisiana knows about the corruption surrounding the Landrieu Clan.

I'll be fair, and point out that you DID say you know very little about New Orleans politics....but since the three members of the Landrieu family to have advanced the farthest in politics HAVE done so on either the national- or at least state-wide scene, I think it's fair for me to ask this question--Can you actually name one incidence of "corruption" in a Landrieu's career? I mean, something beyond a right-wing commentator saying "Well, of course they're corrupt...ALL liberals are corrupt!" I mean some actual scandal involving an elected member of the Landrieu family.

Oh, sure...I know the conservative pundits love to accuse Mary Landrieu of "buying" her first election to the Senate over Woody Jenkins because early on election day Jenkins was a few points ahead, and then late returns from New Orleans put her over the top, with a 100,000 vote lead in New Orleans proper. Of course, anyone who bothered to check the voter's rolls at that time in the city would have noticed that the vast preponderance of voters in Orleans Parish were registered Democrats, and that many of those who were either registered Republican or Democrats who leaned-conservative were still not very comfortable with supporting a candidate whose main allegiances were to Protestant evangelical Christian groups. In New Orleans, even a lot of the conservatives are Catholics. Jenkins cried fraud, and Trent Lott refused to seat Landrieu for 10 months. Jenkins' lawyers claimed they'd found evidence of 7,000 fraudulent votes statewide. Then their "witnesses" were questioned as part of the senate investigation...and promptly recanted. The Senate dropped the investigation. You can check almost any right-wing website and find a "Mary Landrieu corruption" story. For the most part, they go something like this...William Jefferson is a New Orleans Democrat who's liberal in policy-and he's corrupt. Marc Morial was a New Orleans Democrat who's liberal in policy-and he's corrupt. Mary Landrieu is a New Orleans Democrat who's liberal in policy (a tretch, here...a close review of her actual voting record would probably put here just to the left of center) who was supported by Morial and Jefferson...so SHE must be corrupt, too! If someone asks for a specific incidence of scandal, they first get the Landrieu/Jenkins story....and then it's pretty much down to "Well, she's a liberal, and ALL liberals are by definition corrupt!"

Mitch Landrieu corrupt? Hmmmm....well, Ray Nagin DID keep referring to a vote for Landrieu being a vote for "old time New Orleans politics", didn't he? And if Ray Nagin said it.....LOL. Seriously...when Nagin first started pumping the "old New Orleans politics" line and obliquely hinting at some sort of scandal associated with Mitch Landrieu, then backing off with a "maybe you should ask him" when pressed by reporters to explain just what he meant, a local blogger down here offered $50 to the first person who could point out an example of corruption involving Landrieu. The money went uncollected. The closest thing to a "scandal" that keeps coming up about Mitch Landrieu is spending $900,000 renovating "his" office in Baton Rouge. "His" office turns out to be the Lieutenant Governor's office...and the entire fifth floor of the Capitol Annex building, which most agree was a thorough embarassment...and the offices at the Pentagon Building. But you know....it sounds a lot better if you say he "blew almost a million dollars on his office", doesn't it?

Was their father, Moon, corrupt? You sure had a lot of New Orleanians, both Democrat and Republican (those few that there were in the '70's) who hated him. Of course, that was mostly based on the fact that he was the first New Orleans mayor in history to "open up" City Hall to the city's African-Americans, naming several to appointed posts. You can certainly find someone somewhere on the web calling him the "most corrupt mayor in the history of New Orleans". The same guy, of course, says a paragraph later that "68% of New Orleans is black" which means that they are "below the poverty line" and will vote for anyone who "gives them a cold bottle of Ripple". I think I see where he's coming from.

Anyway....I really am not the world's biggest supporter of the Landrieu family or anything, not am I particularly anti-Nagin...it just sort of rubs me the wrong way when vague charges (like "obviously corrupt") get leveled against someone without specific examples ever being produced. Makes you curious (if you're the "thinking" type, I guess) as to whether there's any basis for the charges in the first place.

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^Wow, someone took that personally. :lol:

Was Moon Landrieu not a known womanizer, and is Mary Landrieu not a corrupt politician? The latter is my personal opinion; but I very well have the right to that opinion, don't I? I admit to not knowing the first thing about Mitch, but given my views of his father and sister, he can't be any better.

If Moon Landrieu wasn't a womanizer, I apologize for saying such a thing, but I know I've heard that somewhere before. Obviously, being 26, I wasn't around during Landrieu's reign as Mayor.

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Nah, I really don't think the Landrieu's are corrupt. We can blame Huey Long, Edwin Edwards and Marc Morial for the lion's share of our reputation. Not the Landrieus.

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Nah, I really don't think the Landrieu's are corrupt. We can blame Huey Long, Edwin Edwards and Marc Morial for the lion's share of our reputation. Not the Landrieus.

I aree with Long, Edwards, and Morial, no doubt.

But I'm not fond of the Landrieus either.

I will say, however, that I was completely impressed by Mitch actually rolling up his sleeves like a man and helping find bodies after Katrina. That appeared to be very sincere and not a publicity stunt. Like I said, I was very impressed by that!

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I will say, however, that I was completely impressed by Mitch actually rolling up his sleeves like a man and helping find bodies after Katrina. That appeared to be very sincere and not a publicity stunt. Like I said, I was very impressed by that!

Well, he is a New Orleanian, and weather he is an honest politician or not really doesn't matter in a situation like that. It was his city too that was destroyed, and true New Orleanians have to much pride in this city to just sit back and do nothing to help.

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Well, he is a New Orleanian, and weather he is an honest politician or not really doesn't matter in a situation like that. It was his city too that was destroyed, and true New Orleanians have to much pride in this city to just sit back and do nothing to help.

No doubt, man. I was certainly impressed. I didn't hear about Ray Nagin doing anything like that. He was too busy trying to get votes it seemed.

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^Wow, someone took that personally. :lol:

Was Moon Landrieu not a known womanizer, and is Mary Landrieu not a corrupt politician? The latter is my personal opinion; but I very well have the right to that opinion, don't I? I admit to not knowing the first thing about Mitch, but given my views of his father and sister, he can't be any better.

If Moon Landrieu wasn't a womanizer, I apologize for saying such a thing, but I know I've heard that somewhere before. Obviously, being 26, I wasn't around during Landrieu's reign as Mayor.

LOL....no, no....nothing personal here. I don't have any particular allegience to the Landrieu family or anything...can't say that I've ever met a single member of the family that I know of. It's more that it sometimes gets a little stuck in my craw when any "group" (and I don't mean an actual organization as much as I simply mean "those who are of a like mind") which basically disagrees with someone politically is successful with converting unfounded accusations into "common knowledge" by employing the "big lie" technique of making sure the accusations get repeated over and over from a number of different places, regardless of whether or not there is any foundation in fact. It's the same manner by which we end up with all of the "urban legends" about just about any topic. You get enough emails from enough different people whose opinions you respect telling you that your cell phone number is about to go on a list open to telemarketers unless you contact a particular organization and you start to believe it, even though there may be no basis in fact. Similarly, you hear enough times from radio, TV, or internet commentators whose opinions you may respect that, for example, "Mary Landrieu is corrupt." and you might not even think to stop and ask "Wait...tell me again EXACTLY what it was that she did that warrents the label "corrupt"? Did she sell her vote in Washington on something like gambling on Indian reservations for campaign contributions and golf trips? No? That wasn't her?" I'm certainly not saying she's any more or less corrupt than anyone else in the Senate or House (well, considering what's come to light in the past year or so, and what's rumored to be on the verge of coming to light via the Abramoff investigation and others, I guess I kinda am...LOL), but I really don't think there's anything in her political past that would warrent her being referred to as the "corrupt Sen. Mary Landrieu" any more than there would be to casually refer to...oh, say...the "corrupt Sen. Pete Dominici". And I'm not implying anything about Dominici...his name just popped into my head because he's been in stories down here lately because he's said (mainly through Landrieu's [and Vitter's] efforts to get him to visit the destroyed New Orleans neighborhoods) that he's swung over in support of Louisiana getting a share of offshore oil royalty revenues to apply toward wetland restoration and hurricane protection.

As for if Moon Landrieu was a womanizer or not...I can't say one way or another. If he was, he was apparently extremely discreet, because this is the first time I've heard the charge. I can say with some confidence, for example, that he certainly wasn't living on one floor of the Mayor's mansion with his mistress while his wife and children lived on the other floor, like another recent well-known mayor of another city (New Orleans doesn't have a "mayor's mansion", but you get my drift...LOL).

And for what it's worth, the entire Landrieu clan were just recently honored by Loyola University for meritorious community involvement and service despite their variance from Vatican edicts regarding abortion. This isn't all that unusual regarding American Catholics, however, as many find themselves completely committed to what they learned as children from the New Testament (now I'm starting to sound all religious and all...LOL) about social responsibilty toward the less fortunate while at the same time finding themselves less committed to some Church doctrinal edicts. So you end up with Catholic elected officials whose belief that the Bible stories about "clothing the naked" and "feeding the hungry" and the whole "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers..." were the main precepts they should take from their religious learning are the basis for their concept of "public service". And this generally gets them the label "liberal", although there are certainly Catholic elected officials who vote their conscience, and their conscience is more in line with strict Vatican rules, putting them more in the "conservative" category. Our own Bobby Jindal would seem to be a good example. And it's certainly not limited to Catholics by a long shot...many of the Jewish faith have a long history of "progressive" voting records that would put them in the "feed the poor" category, as do many others of varying Christian traditions, other religions, along with some of no religious beliefs at all.

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No doubt, man. I was certainly impressed. I didn't hear about Ray Nagin doing anything like that. He was too busy trying to get votes it seemed.

I heard an interview with Mitch Landrieu in which he said that it wasn't nearly altruistic as his immediately jumping in a boat to go out and rescue people. He was in Baton Rouge as the storm was hitting, and they were in communication with St. Bernard Parish President Junior Rodriguez and State Rep. Nita Hutter when in the middle of the storm they lost contact, after which no one in Baton Rouge was able to establish communication with any authority in all of St. Bernard Parish. Landrieu heard that some of the Wildlife and Fisheries agents up in Baton Rouge were heading down with their boats to St. Bernard, and he asked to hitch a ride to try to re-establish some type of contact with Parish authorities. Once the boats were launched, though, he said they couldn't just motor past all the people needing help to get down to Chalmette, so they ended up doing rescue work. Of course, then he got accused of setting the whole thing up to use the footage for his mayoral campaign. LOL

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Wow!! I asked what I thought was a simple question. It did however involve politics which is always a dicey subject. Nagin to me sounds like he is full of talk and not "corrupt" so that is the reason that he got re-elected.

In "The Great Deluge" they talk about him not having any plans and asking his lawyers on Saturday if he can legally mandate an evacuatioin of the city. Isn't that something you should just know?

There had been reports about the big one coming and how the levys and the city was not prepared. These reports had come out years before Katrina. There was hurricane Pam which was run to mock a major hurricane hitting the city. It sounds like they didn't learn anything.

It is sad and unfortunate the way that things happened because it sounds like some of the devistation and deaths could have been avoided if Nagin would have had half a plan. Again, I am just a guy from Michigan who read all his info from a book.

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I heard an interview with Mitch Landrieu in which he said that it wasn't nearly altruistic as his immediately jumping in a boat to go out and rescue people. He was in Baton Rouge as the storm was hitting, and they were in communication with St. Bernard Parish President Junior Rodriguez and State Rep. Nita Hutter when in the middle of the storm they lost contact, after which no one in Baton Rouge was able to establish communication with any authority in all of St. Bernard Parish. Landrieu heard that some of the Wildlife and Fisheries agents up in Baton Rouge were heading down with their boats to St. Bernard, and he asked to hitch a ride to try to re-establish some type of contact with Parish authorities. Once the boats were launched, though, he said they couldn't just motor past all the people needing help to get down to Chalmette, so they ended up doing rescue work. Of course, then he got accused of setting the whole thing up to use the footage for his mayoral campaign. LOL

Of course things will get blown out of proportion, but I was completely impressed. It didn't come across as a publicity stunt to me at all, but rather someone who really cared enough to stop and help.

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