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West End Streetscape


dfwtiger

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About the gas prices, are we being serious here? Raise gas prices to pay for a competing mode of transportation? Let's see if I understand the math...

We raise gas prices to build mass transit = more Nashvillians (in theory) riding the train.

More Nashvillians riding the train = fewer cars on the road.

Fewer cars on the road = fewer gallons of gas purchased.

Fewer gallons of gas purchased = decreased revenues to pay for mass transit.

This sounds a lot like taxing cigarettes to pay for health care while at the same time trying to force people to quit smoking. Your source of revenue can't be from something you are trying to limit or eliminate. All you're doing is poisoning the ground in which you are trying to plant.

I travel for a living which includes a lot of driving. I've already cut back due to high gas prices. When that happens I either drive less or transfer that cost to my customers which could be you. Taxes are confiscatory. Tea party people, TEA PARTY!

Sorry about that, please continue. :whistling:

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You know, I didn't think of that. That could be a problem. The thing is, though, when people use the mass transportation, they will pay for tickets, which would kind of offset the gas tax they would pay. I don't know. What would you say we use?

Gas tax.

To fund rail, we need a really low gas tax. Either that, or we need to stop using non-gas taxes to pay for roads, which compete with and kill theoretically private rail systems. Level the playing field, or stop the game.

And anyway: the general interest is in mass, electric transit...both in the immediate and long term. Hold a referendum and democratically pass a small gas tax. Or, divert road money already in existence. Mint and sell a commemorative coin. Hold a bake sale. Do something. This is just getting ridiculous. We have built a public realm in which only the owners of automobiles can fully participate, and the consequences (end of cheap energy, specifically) are about to come (justly and rightly) raining down upon our consternated brows. We need a little infrastructure adjustment, and we need it now.

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I like the 'pay to play' funding that Dallas (and I am sure many others implement) in which it is a regional effort to fund the transit. The close-in communities either pay their share or they are not tied-in to the new system. The next governor should allow more local decision making on where existing TDOT funds are to be allocated on a pro-rata basis. This would allow local Metros to start planning longer-term. Does anyone know how much money has been wasted on I-840? Project slike that are a good place to start when looking for seed funding for massive rail projects. The same is true for Memphis and Knoxville.

Anyway the time is now to start planning/funding because we are 10-20 years out from seeing any results from a 'go' date.

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SSGeek, I understand your point, and have considered it. I still support a gas tax. I don't think it to be an infinite source of funding, simply a good short run solution. It would be a good source of start-up revenue, and basic funding until ridership is increased and people see mass transit as a neccesary means of travel that we can't live without. At that point funding might come from several different sources.

Seriously though, as high as gas is and as much as it fluxuates, is a 2 or 3 cent increase going to make people park their cars and scream "we need transit now!"? I honestly think people wouldn't even notice the increase.

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I respectfully disagree on a couple points. First, taxes or tax increases are almost never repealed. Two or three cents here or there doesn't seem that much but add this tax with that tax and the next tax....

After all, the government makes more profit on a gallon of gas than does "Big oil".

Second, I reject the idea that a tax increase is the answer to every dream project. Maybe the government should drop or suspend some other projects to pay for more popular ones before reaching for my wallet again. I thought it interesting that not too long ago the state budget was in serious trouble with enormous deficits on the way and so we needed to implement an income tax to survive. Then an amazing thing happened. It was defeated and the short falls disappeared.

I'm not at all opposed to Nashville having mass transit. We may indeed need it someday soon. If the demand is there, let a private company build it and operate it completely tax free. If there are not enough riders to pay for it then maybe it's not needed unless we're talking about forcing a change in people's behavior.

I don't get my next door neighbors to pay for my products that I sell. I get my customers to do that.

Again, I mean no disrespect at all but when running my business every single penny counts and more importantly, it's the principle of it all. :D

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SSGeek, good points. No disrespect taken. You are correct about taxes, upon taxes.

However, there is not a transit system in the country that is completely self sufficient (including NYC), so I don't consider a private to be a viable solution. What do you suggest to this?

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However, there is not a transit system in the country that is completely self sufficient (including NYC), so I don't consider a private to be a viable solution. What do you suggest to this?

^I know this wasn't directed to me but I'd like to chime in: I think you have to really recognize how right and true NewTowner's post was (above). If we can bring about the end of government subsidized/completely free roadways, then you'll see the return of the self-sustaining commuter/local rail system.

To accomplish that we need to abolish the gas tax alltogether and convert almost every road to a toll road, and privatize most of them in the process. The current traffic nightmare is a direct consequence of roadways being priced below the market clearing price (actually free in this case). Whenever a good is below the market clearing price there will be shortages due to over-consumption. In terms of roadways, gridlock traffic represents a "shortage" of road capacity. Economics 101, baby!! :D

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  • 2 years later...

Hah.. took me a while to dig up this old topic.. and most of it is pretty much OFF topic anyway.

But.. back on the initial subject.. we are finally getting a revamped West End streetscape of some sort.. I had no idea this was in the works?? Anyone know what it looks like?

West End improvement project underway

Over the next several months, 10 signalized intersections between Interstate 40 and Murphy Road will be reconstructed and 170 aging street lights replaced.

Work on the project will begin at 16th Avenue and progress west, to 28th Avenue.

The project is scheduled to be complete in November.

A federal grant will cover the nearly $2.5 million price tag for the new traffic signals. Metro will spend $635,000 for the new street lights

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That is great news. Welcome to the 21st Century Nashville! Yes, decades ago cities in America began using poles instead of wire for stoplights and posts instead of trees for street lights. I guess better late then never. In all seriousness, this will be a dramatic improvement for West End and was badly needed.

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There will be some underground work, especially around the intersections, along with reconstructed sidewalks and repaving, but I doubt that for $2.5 mil you'll get everything underground. I'm sure this is a probable stop gap measure and that additional work will be done to West End with future BRT in the works. I knew they would get around to this eventually and that having outdated lights and signals was just an issue of timing. Enjoy what we get; it'll be a huge improvement.

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I've seen the plans.

The project will replace the current signal support poles with black painted poles. All signals will be on mast arms and not on cable. The street lights will also have some decorative aspects. It will look less cluttered and more aesthetically pleasing.

All the utilities supplying power and communications to the signal and light poles will be buried. There are no plans to remove other overhead utilities, although there are very few of those.

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Great news. It's small stuff like this Nashville and surrounding neighborhoods can work on in these down times. Maybe one day we will not see power lines around areas such as the core, gulch, west end, north, east etc.

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  • 3 months later...

This project seems to be coming right along.. none of the stoplights have been changed yet.. but several of the intersections have been re-paved and re-painted, along with (i assume this is what they were doing) lines buried for the new stoplights, and new sidewalks on the corners. 16th-20th so far.. working on 21st now, among others.

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