Sugar Tit sticks it to Greer

[Spartan]

Sewer is not mandatory if the lots are large enough for septic (assuming the soil type is right). Water is a different issue though.

[crescentmoon]

True about the larger lot size ... and I think that is most likely the right type of housing for this area. But sewer is necessary for commercial development ... and crossroad developments are appropriate. And the issue that brought this to the forefront, sewer is needed for schools.

[vicupstate]

Sewer is a necessity in many residential developments. Have you seen lot sizes these days? They are too small for septic. Also, soil conditions can mandate sewers or extra large lots. The developer may not be able to make a profit with larger lots, or may have to charge more for them. That squeezes out market-rate and working class housing. Plus the buyers of expensive lots would expect sewer to be available at a higher price.

For this area to suburbanize with any kind of density, sewers are required.

[Spartan]

Sewer is a necessity in many residential developments. Have you seen lot sizes these days? They are too small for septic. Also, soil conditions can mandate sewers or extra large lots. The developer may not be able to make a profit with larger lots, or may have to charge more for them. That squeezes out market-rate and working class housing. Plus the buyers of expensive lots would expect sewer to be available at a higher price.

For this area to suburbanize with any kind of density, sewers are required.

Good points. I would like to see densities that require sewer no matter what.

[goodbye]

Another update to this battle: Click Here.

The mud is flying back and forth and both sides are really digging in on this one. I think it is interesting, no matter what the outcome is.

[Spartan]

There is some potential "collateral damage" to the annexation issue as well. Apparantly annexation could effect electrical service too. It would determine the provider for the area (not the actual electricity).

Here is thelink.

As for Skyliner's post- I agree. This is an interesting exchange taking place. Its interestin that we haven't heard much from Reidville officials on the issue. I wonder where they stand? Since they don't really exist to be a town like most of us are familiar with, I wonder f they really want the annexation? Apparantly the land we're talking about is pretty significant in size when compared to the size of Reidville.

[crescentmoon]

I was told yesterday that there is a possibility that Spartanburg County Council will reassign the sewer rights in the area. GCPW would loose the rights while SSSD would be assigned the territory and the pump stations needed to serve the area would be subsidized by the county. I have three thoughts on that:

First, it seems that would leave them liable for any cost that GCPW has already incurred --- and I bet those could be substantial.

Second, how could the council get away with subsidizing sewer in one part of the county without offering the same to ALL parts? Such a move would likely lead to multiple groups knocking on the council doors demanding the same thing.

And third, if it happens it would be a death blow for preserving the existing rural nature of the area (which is what POAGA says is the reason they are "against Greer".) Sewer availability without zoning (which Greer offers, yet not the county) would lead to uncontrolled growth that the community would have little input on.

[Spartan]

The sewer service areas are not legally binding, so technically there is no loss. The SSSD would probably provide sewer serivce to anyone who wants it bad enough. Also remember that they arent going to provide sewer service now, but when the area needs it (though that may be sooner than we all think).

What other groups would want sewer service?

[crescentmoon]

The sewer service areas are not legally binding, so technically there is no loss. The SSSD would probably provide sewer serivce to anyone who wants it bad enough. Also remember that they arent going to provide sewer service now, but when the area needs it (though that may be sooner than we all think).

What other groups would want sewer service?

Spartan, I strongly disagree with your first conjecture. The council acted with assumed and accepted authority when they originally assigned the territory and as a result, GCPW invested in preparations to sewer the area. There would definitely be culpability for the council.

As for SSSD providing sewer, a change would allow for that because of the county subsidizing the pump station --- since SSSD has long stated they have no intention of providing a pump station for the area themselves. You may recall that they found it to be cost prohibitive. It is important to remember that sewer is not a profit maker for utilities. And it is expensive to install, especially if a pump station is involved.

[Spartan]

I have no problem if you want to disagree, but what I said was not an opinion, its a fact.

"'There's no legal backing behind [the county council] saying you will serve this area, and you will serve that area.'"

Nobody forced Greer to start running sewer lines all over the place.

Maybe you are right about SSSD, but they get money for capital projects from the County anyway, so this would not be entirely different.

[Spartan]

Some updates today. Reidville's annexation hearing is tonight, so there is a lot of coverage today...

Greer has approved the annexation of Abner Creek, which blocks Reidville from annexing too far westward. Reidville holds its annexation hearing tonight.

SHJ Article

The annexation of Sugar Tit by Reidville could potentially cost the area a $250 million, 200 job deal according to Greer. Its extremely preliminary at this point, but there are other companies that are considering the area too that total another $250 million. Thats $500 million in potential investment.

Here is the SHJ article.

This Greenville News Article exaplins that the annexation 'arch' that was designed to block Greer from annexing into the area is broken because 35 people have taken their name off of the petition, and they no longer meet the 75% threshold.

[goodbye]

There you go. Crescentmoon was right. Isn't change great?

[Spartan]

The lastest from the Herald-Journal and the Greenville News

Reidville has accepted the petition for annexation pending legal review. Greer still thinks that Reidville doesn't meet the annexation requirements. This is almost like something we'd see in Charleston.

[goodbye]

The latest on the possible major development mentioned above: A 500-acre mixed-use development bringing 2,000, possible jobs to the I-85 and highway 14 area. I assume it may go in Spartanburg County, since it seems to be closely tied to this debate.

What I don't understand though, is why some people are against Greer for no solid reason. The people who say that they don't want to develop into another "suburb" make more sense than those who are simply opposed to Greer annexation. I say if the people of Sugar Tit don't want to grow, that's fine. The people just across the county line probably wouldn't have any problems taking this type of new development.

[goodbye]

Yet another update from The Greenville News.

Still just as bitter a fight as ever.

[Spartan]

I am not convinced that we are gettin the whole story here on what each side wants. Reidville has been very quite about it, and I think there are probably more people like crescentmon out there than the papers are reporting.

I don't see why Greer can't just provide its services without annexation. That is what most places do.

[vicupstate]

I don't see why Greer can't just provide its services without annexation. That is what most places do.

Because it doesn't want to fall into the same trap as nearly every other city and town in SC. By agreeing to provide city services without city taxes, our cities are nearly all a small fraction of there true urbanized size. Sewage is not a profit center the way water is. It much more expensive to treat raw sewage than water. Without city taxes, to ofset it, sewer is a losing proposition.

If Columbia and Greenville had the same policy and enforced it years ago, they wouldn't be midgets next to Charlotte, they would be peer cities. Greer and Mayor Danner are to be commended for sticking to their guns.

The question is, does Reidville insist on staying rural or developing? Development is destined to follow sewer lines, no matter who provides it.

If Reidville wanted to stay rural, they should have opposed the school construction. Schools must have sewer. Sewer bring development. Greer can and should be the provider.

[Spartan]

While that is true, the area around Reidville is far from urban, so sewer isn't really necessary out there. The only reason they are considering it is because that school needs sewer service. Rural areas need schools too, so why should they oppose the thing to start with?

Your statement is also true for Spartanburg. If it used its sewer system as a requirement to be in the city, then the city would have significantly larger boundaries.

I don't disagree that Greer should be the provider, especially if it is a waste of County money and SSSD resources. However, SSSD operates almost entirely outside of any municipality (except Cowpens, Pacolet, and Landrum), as does Western Carolina, so I know that it can be done. Usually you have substantially higher fees for those that do not want to be in the incoporated place to offset the losses associated. Water and sewer systems do this.

[Spartan]

I had another thought about this. If this article in todays Herald-Journal is correct, then this $250 million project is potentially coming to the area. This is definately an urbanizing project. But I guarantee you that if someone wants to invest $250 million in Spartanburg County, they will find a way to get them serwer service, whether Greer does it or not. To me, that particular arguement against this annexation is a moot point now.

[g-man430]

I have been reading about this thing between Sugar Tit/Greer/Reidville for weeks now and I still don't know what the heck is going on? Would somebody please tell me?

-Are Greer and Reidville both trying to annex Sugar Tit or is it something else? I'm so confused.

[g-man430]

Nevermind, I understand it now. Why would you want to remain rural. It's kind of hard to do that in one of the most fastest growing areas in the state.

[Spartan]

Some residents of Sugar Tit are trying to annex into Reidville.

Their reason is that they don't want to incorporate into anywhere, but if it has to happen they want it to be to Reidville. But Greer's new sewer line to service a new school in that area would eventually force parts of their area to annex into Greer (because of Greer's service requirements). So, they have assembled certain properties together in such a way that it forms an arch from Reidville that effectively blocks Greer from annexing further south than that arch, where ever that is.

Greer has just annexed properties in the area that are in the part of the arch (I think) which blocks Reidville from annexing everything. But Reidville went ahead with the annexation. So in theory, Reidville's annexation is invalid, assuming everything that Greer has said about taking people off of the petition and their recent annexation pans out.

I am a little confused myself about where exactly Abner Creek is, and I am not sure where the city lines are drawn. I would love to see a map of the area. basicly it has come down to the lawyers, who have to figure this mess out.

[btoy]

I don't see why Greer can't just provide its services without annexation. That is what most places do.

The reason is that the Citizens of the City of Greer own Greer CPW.

They do provide some serives with out annexations. The way I understand it is that they provide water out side the city because State Law says yon can not use water service to entice annexations. And they provide gas and power out side the city becuase they make money on it. But they do not make money on sewer service and since the people of Greer own CPW they require annexation for service.

[vicupstate]

The reason is that the Citizens of the City of Greer own Greer CPW.

They do provide some serives with out annexations. The way I understand it is that they provide water out side the city because State Law says yon can not use water service to entice annexations. And they provide gas and power out side the city becuase they make money on it. But they do not make money on sewer service and since the people of Greer own CPW they require annexation for service.

The issue of requiring water service is a sensitive one, but I know Columbia requires a potential cutomer to sign an agreement, that they will agree to annexation if and when the city limits become contiguous. This provision is rarely enforced by Cola., and never in residential areas, but technically it could be. Greenville has made some efforts to do the same thing, so I doubt this practice is illegal, just unpopular. Also, water service is profitable without city taxes, but Sewer is generally not.

[G'ville-gal]

We are not in the city of Greer but receive city water. We are on septic.

I am not in the path of the proposed annexation.

The 250 million development appears (at least in the articles I have read)is to be outside this proposed annexation zone. If this development aquires 500 acres near the Village of Pelham say across from it near the waste treatment plant, they will ask to be annexed just like the Village at Pelham did.

What is interesting to me about this is now I wonder if the new 250 million dollar development may not be as close to the Village at Pelham as the article states but the Village at Pelham is used as a point of reference

Maybe this new development is near or in this sugar tit/reidville annexation area and the deal hinges on Greer annexing this area. It is just a thought. I have no proof of this.