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Sugar Tit sticks it to Greer

Spartan

By Spartan
in Spartanburg

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crescentmoon Whistle-Stop

crescentmoon

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<<I am a little confused myself about where exactly Abner Creek is, and I am not sure where the city lines are drawn. I would love to see a map of the area. basicly it has come down to the lawyers, who have to figure this mess out.>>

Abner Creek and Abner Creek Road are in western Spartanburg County. One end of the road actually runs through the SRHS property at the Village at Pelham (in Greer). The other end is at Hwy 101. Certain properties on Abner Creek Road have been in Greer for some time. It's a fairly long road so, others don't come close to being contiguous to Greer.

As for the two Abner Creek* properties that were just annexed into Greer, they were already contiguous to the Greer city limits (as required by law) and are nowhere close to the "existing" Reidville city limits.

* I'm pretty sure these properties don't have Abner Creek Road as an address but, they are considered in the Abner Creek community.

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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Can someone please explain to me why the city of Spartanburg has trouble annexing properties but Greer seems to be gobbleing up everything it touches.

In South Carolina, cities annex by the property owners signing a petition to join a city. The idea is that cities can't control everything if the people have to request to be annexed. But I won't go in to my opinion on that right now.

Many cities have found a way around that law. They use their municipal sewer service as leverage. They reqire people to sign an agreement stating that their property will be annexed into the city at some point in the future as a condition for service. Spartanburg and Greer have this arrangement. Greer, however, makes annexation a requirement for service, which makes them much more aggressive when it comes to annexation by its nature. So, every time they expand their sewer lines they can potentially have more land in their boundary.

Spartanburg has historically been ambivilant towards annexation. Currently, however, it is attempting to annex land on the Eastside, that uses its municipal sewer service, based on those past agreements. The City has taken a more aggressive stance towards annexation to build up its tax base, which it needs.

The key difference between the two, however, is that Greer is a suburb. It has lots of developing land (which typically has larger tracts of land) around it that needs sewer service, so it is much easier for Greer to expand.

Spartanburg is a built up city, and the municipality is largely built out (small tracts)- so no new service is needed (in the City, mind you). The City's sewer service area is also not very large. If you look at this map you can see the orange areas outside of the city limits of Spartanburg. That, plus all areas within the City limits, are the city's service area (basicly). Since SSSD already provides sewer service outside of the city it is not possible to expand like Greer does. Greer, on the other hand, does not have this limitation.

As a side note, I think that when a property is annexed into the City of Spartanburg, it becomes a part of the City's serice area. Don't hold me to that one though.

So I guess the quick answer is that Spartanburg CAN annex like Greer does, but only within that orange boundary I mentioned before, and it is trying to do that now. The trick is that in SC cities can annex areas using the 75% rule, which means that if 75% of the property owners agree to annex, the other 25% can be annexed whether they agree or not. So my understanding is that what they are trying to do is maximize their annexation area to inlcude as much land as possible. Outside of that boundary it cannot forcefully annex large areas. My guess it that it will have to be done a little bit at a time (unless of course there is some arrangement with SSSD that allows for annexation based on service).

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breed Hamlet

breed

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One thing to keep in mind about Greer's annexation strategies... while they have been successful in gobbling territory, their city boundaries are confounding to municipal staff, not to mention folks who live in the area, leading to some inefficient services. As a result, as of 2004, Greer had the highest millage rates in Greenville County.

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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Reidville went ahead with the annexation. Now Greer is going to challenge it.

Herald-Journal

Greenville News

Channel 7 - there is an image here that has a map in the background that migh tbe of the annexed area

Channel 4 that same image is here as well

Greenville News: Greer to fight; Laurens Electrical Co-op to fight back

This was interesting... Reidville will be growing regardless of the annexation with several new subdivisions going up in that area:

Greenville News: Redville growth

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crescentmoon Whistle-Stop

crescentmoon

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Interesting that Reidville is "developing," considering it has no building and codes department for building regulations and inspections ... or city streets to maintain ... will they be private streets? ... wonder if the folks who more into these new neighborhoods will be aware of this. Sounds like a shady developers paradise.

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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In the event POAGA's "Plan A" does not work" they have a Plan B: ask the SSSD to service the Abner Creek and Sugar Tit communities. I personally think this is a bad idea. Sugar Tit and Reidville could be justified, but Abner Creek is so close to existing Greer lines that it would only create confusion.

Plan B

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crescentmoon Whistle-Stop

crescentmoon

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In the event POAGA's "Plan A" does not work" they have a Plan B: ask the SSSD to service the Abner Creek and Sugar Tit communities. I personally think this is a bad idea. Sugar Tit and Reidville could be justified, but Abner Creek is so close to existing Greer lines that it would only create confusion.

Plan B

Many properties on Abner Creek Road have been in the City of Greer for years ... that's more than "close!"

Reidville's "annexation" actually included a couple of properties already in the city limits of Greer.

Ultimately, Reidville's flawed "annexation" will only serve to make money for the lawyers.

For those keeping score:

The only city attempting to annex up to their neighbor's city limits = Reidville

The only city FORCIBLY annexing property = Reidville

And they call Greer the aggressor? ?

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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Reidville has not foricbly annexed anything. Those people signed a petition on their own, and submitted it on their own. Keep in mind POAGA is the instigator here. Not Reidville.

The properties "in" Greer's limits are the ones that are being debated here, as they were just annexed last week. Greer is more vocal here, so its easy to assume that they are correct in their assertations. It could be that those properties are supposed to be in Reidville. We'll just have to wait and see.

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crescentmoon Whistle-Stop

crescentmoon

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Reidville has not foricbly annexed anything. Those people signed a petition on their own, and submitted it on their own. Keep in mind POAGA is the instigator here. Not Reidville.

The properties "in" Greer's limits are the ones that are being debated here, as they were just annexed last week. Greer is more vocal here, so its easy to assume that they are correct in their assertations. It could be that those properties are supposed to be in Reidville. We'll just have to wait and see.

Spartan, you are misinformed. The Reidville "annexation" used the 75%=25% method. From the beginning, many property owners were indeed being forced into Reidville. The properties that were recently annexed into to Greer were among those facing being forced into Reidville ... which is one reason why they requested annexation into Greer.

Your misunderstanding serves to prove my contention that the press is doing a poor job of covering this story.

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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I have not misunderstood anything. You assume that becasue I didn't say it that I dont know it. The POAGA group requested to be annexed. That is a fact. The 75% rule is legal. Some people might be forcibly annexed. But you are making Reidville out to be the aggressor of this situation, when it is not. Who's to say its not 90% that want to be annexed? You can blame that on the paper though. I wont argue that they aren't doing a poor job of reporting here. Any city in SC that wants to annex anything has used the 75% rule at one point or another, so that is a poor argument, IMO.

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crescentmoon Whistle-Stop

crescentmoon

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Spartan, I am not trying to make you mad. If my response appeared disrespectful, then I apologize. I assumed your statement was based on misinformation. I am just asking for accuracy. This is your statement I was replying to:

<<Reidville has not foricbly annexed anything.>>

I never said the 75/25 method was illegal. But clearly, it does involve force. Even IF the legitimate signatures make up 90% as you suggest, that still would mean 10% are being forcibly annexed.

I am not opposed to the 75/25 method of annexation when used as a positive tool for urban growth.

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goodbye Metropolitan Area

goodbye

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Spartan, I am not trying to make you mad. If my response appeared disrespectful, then I apologize. I assumed your statement was based on misinformation. I am just asking for accuracy. This is your statement I was replying to:

<<Reidville has not foricbly annexed anything.>>

I never said the 75/25 method was illegal. But clearly, it does involve force. Even IF the legitimate signatures make up 90% as you suggest, that still would mean 10% are being forcibly annexed.

I am not opposed to the 75/25 method of annexation when used as a positive tool for urban growth.

Which the Township of Reidville does not have in mind from the sounds of things. They have the opportunity to enforce a smart growth pattern, but current signs indicate that they are becoming yet another sprawling community without an urban core. My greatest concern regarding this vote is that it could cost the Upstate a massive development proposal. Nothing against the good people living within this neighborhood, but a large-scale, master-planned, mixed-use development as vaguely reported, would be far more appealing to many than a randomly sprawling community similar to Powdersville or Boiling Springs. So basically my hope is that Reidville will not neglect its duties to provide service and direction for its citizens in the future, and that it will avoid the trap so many other places in the Upstate have fallen into over the years - becoming a generic piece of sprawl. Fortunately, many of these places are working hard to recreate a unique and independent image for themselves. Reidville ought to consider the same since it is only just beginning to see the effects of uninhibited sprawl. :)

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