The one thing

[jcrc]

out of the two, annexation and re-route 84 and 91, which one is more realistic? Or are we sepculating on coulda woulda shoulda. I think there is a slim chance of re-routing the highways if property value in Hartford increased a lot so that economic gains out weight the cost. Annexation on the other hand is an impossible dream.

[HartfordTycoon]

out of the two, annexation and re-route 84 and 91, which one is more realistic? Or are we sepculating on coulda woulda shoulda. I think there is a slim chance of re-routing the highways if property value in Hartford increased a lot so that economic gains out weight the cost. Annexation on the other hand is an impossible dream.

I don't think it's impossible if you look 25-50 years into the future. Who knows they may be ready for it by then. Taking the highways out of some of the prime neighborhoods would be nice though and it's something we could focus on now if we wanted to.

[robm324]

out of the two, annexation and re-route 84 and 91, which one is more realistic? Or are we sepculating on coulda woulda shoulda. I think there is a slim chance of re-routing the highways if property value in Hartford increased a lot so that economic gains out weight the cost. Annexation on the other hand is an impossible dream.

Probably both have a slim-to-none chance of happening. Having said that, If downtown continues to grow, and stuff like a new Civic Center and an increased number of residential/office buildings are built, that might push the edge's of the present downtown beyond 84, and show that burying the highway is a good idea. I'm just saying with that scenario it is a better chance of that happening than the annexation of W. or E. Hartford. Pigs will fly before that happens in my opinion.

[SOCOM]

I'm just saying with that scenario it is a better chance of that happening than the annexation of W. or E. Hartford. Pigs will fly before that happens in my opinion.

I think there's hope for E. Hartford over the next 10-20 years. Rentschler Field and the massive development surrounding it is only going to connect Hartford and E. Hartford even more. Throw in the obvious that E. Hartford isn't nearly as rich as W. Hartford, and who knows, the people might just go for it. It'd be interesting to take a poll on E. Hartford residents to see how many would support a merger with Hartford.

[drc72]

I think there's hope for E. Hartford over the next 10-20 years. Rentschler Field and the massive development surrounding it is only going to connect Hartford and E. Hartford even more. Throw in the obvious that E. Hartford isn't nearly as rich as W. Hartford, and who knows, the people might just go for it. It'd be interesting to take a poll on E. Hartford residents to see how many would support a merger with Hartford.

Annexation of West Hartford would flow much better into Hartford, but as others have said pigs will fly. East Hartford has a remote chance of possibly coming into Hartford city proper someday. East Hartford could bring Hartford much closer to the 200,000 mark and surpass Providence in population.

[Luca Brasi]

I'm not convinced rerouting I-84 in Hartford would be the cure all we think it would be. Back in the 1950's everyone thought that highways would bring everyone INTO downtown by making the drive much easier. I guess no one considered that the interstate system was a two way street. For a project as big as rerouting 84, I'd rather see the money put into developing areas like west of 84 and north of downtown to bridge the highway. When 84 was "bridged" downtown in the early 90's with park space, it was engineered to be able to hold a highrise.

And speaking of highway projects, did anyone see what happened in Boston yesterday regarding the Big Dig? A large segment of concrete collapsed in a tunnel and fell onto a passing car crushing someone causing further investigation into a project that has been nothing short of a catastrophy to taxpayers. It's suspected that a contractor used substandard, not freshly mixed concrete. That's great. Who is going to feel safe driving through this tunneled highway? Years late, billions over budget and now that the end is near, the tunnel leaks like a sieve and now this. What will this tunnel be like when its 10.. 20... 50 years old? What a nightmare.

[jcrc]

My understanding is that I84 is suppose to be a beltway that loops around Hartford, not some monstrosity that cuts the city in half and creates wasted spaces and abandon buildings in its path which is what we have today.

[jcrc]

West Hartford was originally part of Hartford. When Noah Webster was alive is was the western district of Hartford.

And the city of Hartford allowed the wealthest part of the city to flew the coop? Well that was a major intercourse up the wazoo Hartford got.

[HartfordTycoon]

And the city of Hartford allowed the wealthest part of the city to flew the coop? Well that was a major intercourse Hartford got.

Well in that time Hartford was what mattered and they would not have cared about what happened in West Hartford as much. The way I understand it they only split Hartford up for convenience. People in the Western and Eastern Divisions did not want to have to come to Hartford for everything as far as city hall related services. So they set up their own town halls and suceeded. Hindsight is 20/20, surely it did not seem like a big deal at the time as it was probably not a significant loss of population. This also was a time when Hartford was amongst the richest cities in the U.S.

[jcrc]

Well in that time Hartford was what mattered and they would not have cared about what happened in West Hartford as much. The way I understand it they only split Hartford up for convenience. People in the Western and Eastern Divisions did not want to have to come to Hartford for everything as far as city hall related services. So they set up their own town halls and suceeded. Hindsight is 20/20, surely it did not seem like a big deal at the time as it was probably not a significant loss of population. This also was a time when Hartford was amongst the richest cities in the U.S.

So laziness was Hartford's undoing? I can't imagine New York City will allow Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, or Staten Island leave the city because the City Hall is in Manhattan. A lot of decisions made by Hartford didn't seem like a big deal, but now they are hurting Hartford big time. Building I84 to cut across the city wasn't a big deal. Tearing down Front Street neighborhood wasn't a big deal. Letting W and E Hartford go wasn't a big deal. Knocking down yet another building for yet another parking lot wasn't a big deal. But they are. These are the mistakes that turned Hartford from the richest city in the US to one of the poorest. I just hope whoever runs the city and the state learn from these mistakes.

[drc72]

So laziness was Hartford's undoing? I can't imagine New York City will allow Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, or Staten Island leave the city because the City Hall is in Manhattan. A lot of decisions made by Hartford didn't seem like a big deal, but now they are hurting Hartford big time. Building I84 to cut across the city wasn't a big deal. Tearing down Front Street neighborhood wasn't a big deal. Letting W and E Hartford go wasn't a big deal. Knocking down yet another building for yet another parking lot wasn't a big deal. But they are. These are the mistakes that turned Hartford from the richest city in the US to one of the poorest. I just hope whoever runs the city and the state learn from these mistakes.

I agree 100% with this statement!!!! Hartford can't continue to make mistakes like this.

[runawayjim]

relocation of 91 could be the best idea and is not completely unrealistic. highways are re-routed fairly often. just don't bury them... or at the very least, learn from boston's mistakes.

opening up hartford to the waterfront would be huge for the city and could attract many more people in and help boost your population to closer to that of providence. i don't see any reason why there needs to be competition or statements like "that would give us more people than providence". the providence area is one of the most densely populated in the country, the areas just outside of hartford aren't quite as dense as those surrounding providence. although i have heard suggestions that providence annex pawtucket and north providence. while you might increase hartford's population by annexation, you will probably decrease your density. providence, as jerry said, is only 1 sq mi larger than hartford.

we're increasing access to our waterfront by relocating 195, which will be good for us. hartford should consider the same thing with 91. the only thing is it would make it a bit more difficult to get downtown from 91, but that can be fixed with some good signage.

[blink55184]

the only thing is it would make it a bit more difficult to get downtown from 91, but that can be fixed with some good signage.

I don't think it'd be that bad.

Coming from the south, just a left handed exit connecting to the founders bridge.

Coming from the north, just a right handed exit connecting to the founders bridge.

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't think it'd be that bad.

Coming from the south, just a left handed exit connecting to the founders bridge.

Coming from the north, just a right handed exit connecting to the founders bridge.

But where are we suggesting moving it to, the East Hartford side? I'm having trouble picturing it.

[uconn99]

But where are we suggesting moving it to, the East Hartford side? I'm having trouble picturing it.

I say burry them both. You could begin to burry I-91 after the Charter Oak exit and bring it back up around the Meadows area North of downtown. You could still use all the exisiting exits on 91 and the interchange with 84 would be underground.

On the 84 side, you could start to bury it right after you get over the river from East Hartford. You would have to have it be above ground I would think until about the current location of the tunnel since 91 would also be underground.

84 could come back up to the surface after Capitol ave.

[runawayjim]

I say burry them both. You could begin to burry I-91 after the Charter Oak exit and bring it back up around the Meadows area North of downtown. You could still use all the exisiting exits on 91 and the interchange with 84 would be underground.

On the 84 side, you could start to bury it right after you get over the river from East Hartford. You would have to have it be above ground I would think until about the current location of the tunnel since 91 would also be underground.

84 could come back up to the surface after Capitol ave.

as long as this does not happen.

it would work great and free a lot of land...

[HartfordTycoon]

as long as this does not happen.

it would work great and free a lot of land...

OK, I could go along with that. Just bury the small sections that go through the middle of town and leave the rest alone. I don't want "Mini Big Dig."

[drc72]

as long as this does not happen.

it would work great and free a lot of land...

The big dig is just one huge disaster. The taxpayers are really getting screwed on that deal.

[runawayjim]

I big dig is just one huge disaster. The taxpayers are really getting screwed on that deal.

exactly... hartford cannot afford to allow that to happen.

[blink55184]

How bout keep 91 above ground, on the East Hartford side-

This would also create the need for atleast 2 more bridges, which help the skyline in my opinion-- maybe make the charter oak wider, containing 91, or right along the charter oak, then along the riverfront somehow of east hartford, and back across the river after the park near the meadows...

All of this would weaken the need for 291 a little though

[drc72]

How bout keep 91 above ground, on the East Hartford side-

This would also create the need for atleast 2 more bridges, which help the skyline in my opinion-- maybe make the charter oak wider, containing 91, or right along the charter oak, then along the riverfront somehow of east hartford, and back across the river after the park near the meadows...

All of this would weaken the need for 291 a little though

If this where to happen, it sounds like it would be at least 20 years away from completing. I could be wrong though.

[runawayjim]

All of this would weaken the need for 291 a little though

that depends on how far east it goes and how far north it goes before it crosses the river (i'm not too sure where 291 hits 84 and 91).

If this where to happen, it sounds like it would be at least 20 years away from completing. I could be wrong though.

burying it would take even longer... but major highway projects take some time... look at the I-95 stuff in teh new haven area... projected end date is in like 2012 or 2015 or something... and it started like 5 years ago.

[robm324]

I think moving the highway to East Hartford would be a bigger mess...more likely to work downtown. If you move it to East Hartford you are looking at a lot of eminent domain issues, not to mention that Goodwin College is going to be building on a lot of property on the East Hartford riverfront. Where would the highway cross back into the west side of the river? You could possibly say it would stay east all the way to where the highway presently crosses the Dexter Coffin in East Windsor, but then what about the Route 20 Bradley Connector and the 291 interchange. I think moving keeping 91 in Hartford and moving it underground makes the most sense. If I had my pick, I would say that the moving 84 underground is more important that any issues with 91. Riverfront recapture, while not completely restoring the waterfront, did a pretty good job of giving the waterfront back to the city. I still think that 84 creates an unnatural barrier to downtown that is more of a detractor.

[drc72]

that depends on how far east it goes and how far north it goes before it crosses the river (i'm not too sure where 291 hits 84 and 91).

burying it would take even longer... but major highway projects take some time... look at the I-95 stuff in teh new haven area... projected end date is in like 2012 or 2015 or something... and it started like 5 years ago.

I95 will be a neverending cause. They need to revamp that whole highway in CT.

[runawayjim]

I95 will be a neverending cause. They need to revamp that whole highway in CT.

that's a discussion for another thread altogether...

but highway moves and major work take a lot of time because people need to still be able to use them. i won't use the big dig as an example... but even the 195 relocation in providence has been going on for at least a few years now... and i think someone said it won't be done for at least another 4 years, or was it 10?