Nashville International Airport Development thread

[LA_TN]

9 hours ago, NissanvilleTitans said:

I really hope we get wow airlines

I assume you noticed the STL announcement this week. A direct flight to Iceland. And then transfer to another flight to connect to destination (London, Paris, Frankfurt, etc). WOW is a low-cost carrier (like Southwest, etc)

We will have a direct flight to London on a legacy airline with first-class/business-class where there are 100s of connection options vs 20 for WOW in Iceland

BNA wins this round by KO in the first round. But, of course, it would be nice to also have WOW in the future

[UTgrad09]

Just now, AUNash said:

So ... what is driving that growth? Tourism? Business growth?

 

Everything.

Quote

Is there any study to show the growth is sustainable?

Sustainable how? And over what period? Obviously the airport has ten-figure long-term plans for growth. I think that's appropriate. Will the growth continue? Maybe not at this rate....but it's showing no signs of really slowing. The city is hitting its stride in so many different areas. It's no surprise that the airport is one of them.

[dmillsphoto]

WOW I guess can be good, I'd rather have Norwegian.

[Will]

WOW is notorious for poor on-time performance and to the point raised above connection options are very limited from Iceland. Norwegian seems to be focused on other markets ahead of BNA, including Chicago and DC.  

A Delta flight to Amsterdam would be the jam. Hoping that rumor turns out to be true.

[dmillsphoto]

15 minutes ago, Will said:

WOW is notorious for poor on-time performance and to the point raised above connection options are very limited from Iceland. Norwegian seems to be focused on other markets ahead of BNA, including Chicago and DC.  

A Delta flight to Amsterdam would be the jam. Hoping that rumor turns out to be true.

I have hard off this board that the Delta flight to Amsterdam has a higher than 50% chance, but I think some of it is contingent on the D concourse. To what extent I'm not sure.

[NashRugger]

Norwegian is on an aggressive growth plan for the US, and they already serve some airports that have less traffic than Nashville, such as Providence (PVD), Bradley (BDL) in Hartford, & Stewart (SWF) in Newburgh, NY. They begin service to Austin-Bergstrom in March of next year. WOW's business model could lend them to come to BNA earlier than Norwegian, but I said both are on aggressive US expansion. 

[MLBrumby]

Thought Concourse A was going to contain the International Arrivals facilities and Con.D will be expanded to be like B & C for domestic jet service. Did I get that completely wrong? 

No doubt, Delta will be watching the BA service to London in its decision on Amsterdam service. 

[NashRugger]

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

Thought Concourse A was going to contain the International Arrivals facilities and Con.D will be expanded to be like B & C for domestic jet service. Did I get that completely wrong? 

No doubt, Delta will be watching the BA service to London in its decision on Amsterdam service. 

It would be A because the amount of work needed to just upgrade D to jetways is going to be VERY expensive, not including the expansion down the tarmac. Also, A has the approach room on the tarmac and the spacing for planes between C & D would be a little tight for long-haul flights and Southwest's 737-800s and the MAX8 coming in October. 

I've long said on here, one bullet fired in terms on long-haul international or even transcontinental, you potentially will see more. Delta is looking to spread some flights out to reduce the crunch in Atlanta, thus you're seeing them ramp up Boston-Logan, which in turn is causing JetBlue to invest time in researching transAtlantic opportunities.

You're seeing a new push and Nashville is in a good position to reap hefty rewards for potential European and Latin American flights. Asian flights, that's still debatable.

Edited August 28, 2017 by NashRugger

[Pdt2f]

^ Do you think concourse D will primarily be used for regional jets when it's finished, if it can't really fit 738s? Any ideas of who would lease the gates?

[NashRugger]

3 hours ago, Pdt2f said:

^ Do you think concourse D will primarily be used for regional jets when it's finished, if it can't really fit 738s? Any ideas of who would lease the gates?

Oh it could do regional jets like it did when American's hub was here, because it was specifically used for that. It could handle most aircraft that come into BNA already, but backing would be difficult for longer body jets, like the United 767-400ER that came in Saturday, and potentially risk an incidental wing hit with planes at the end of C. Concourse D would likely be a carrier like JetBlue or Frontier, or American may allegedly pull up from C and use D exclusively if they want to. Mind you, Spirit wants in, but how is the biggest factor because Southwest has such a strong stake here and they, Spirit, fly to basically all the legacy carrier hubs, such as ATL, ORD, & DFW, and those airlines do not want the further competition, hence lowering prices. 

I know for a fact JetBlue is looking long-term at BNA for significant growth and potentially operate as a mid-America hub since the only hub west of here is Long Beach (LGB). 

If Delta launches a transAtlantic flight, American will likely pull the trigger as well as they still have unused gates that they currently lease. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by NashRugger

[Pdt2f]

Do you mean that American will pull the trigger and add a transatlantic flight?

It would be interesting to see what happens to American's gates if they go from C to D. Do you think southwest would try and eat up a lot of them?

Any idea when JetBlue could start to expand here? I could definitely see them adding JFK, MCO, and maybe SJU. 

[MLBrumby]

Just my limited knowledge of the air market at BNA: I think SWA would take everything they can get from AA there. They've pretty much built that place up beyond what AA had as a hub. From where I sit, and I fly AA often... SWA less so, AA has been playing defense at BNA for going on twenty years. An international flight would be a feather in their cap. Remember all, I think BA will be getting incentives. So the other airlines would be looking to drink from the same trough. 

[NashRugger]

45 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

Do you mean that American will pull the trigger and add a transatlantic flight?

It would be interesting to see what happens to American's gates if they go from C to D. Do you think southwest would try and eat up a lot of them?

Any idea when JetBlue could start to expand here? I could definitely see them adding JFK, MCO, and maybe SJU. 

No idea on JetBlue expansion, but thinking they're waiting as the terminal overhaul comes to fruition. Returning the JFK route is quite possible and adding Orlando is probable, and bringing San Juan would be a big win. 

Yes, but American needs to increase more routes from American Eagle to mainline, such as JFK, O'Hare, and also add Phoenix to the lineup before I see a European flight. The latter unless BNA ponies up incentives, which I wouldn't doubt.  

[Pdt2f]

American upgrading a few of their Miami flights to mainline seems to be a step in that direction. You work with Southwest, right? Or am I completely misremembering that?

[jmtunafish]

Isn't British Airways partnered with American?  So a BA flight to London is kind of like an AA flight since it'll be codeshared with AA and AAdvantage miles are earned on BA.

[SoundScan]

If incentives are going to be an inevitability I think you'll see more of a push for direct trans-Pacific access before another flight to Europe.

[NashRugger]

3 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

Isn't British Airways partnered with American?  So a BA flight to London is kind of like an AA flight since it'll be codeshared with AA and AAdvantage miles are earned on BA.

Correct, under the Oneworld alliance along with Qantas, Japan Airlines, and several others. They'd do it if the capacity is nearly completely full every time for the outbound to LHR from here. That's why I said they'll wait to see what Delta does, most likely.

I did work for Southwest until April, left the company for a better work-life balance. 

While incentives could entice, BNA would be the only non-major hub airport to have nonstop service to Asia on the eastern side of the country. 

[MLBrumby]

1 hour ago, SoundScan said:

If incentives are going to be an inevitability I think you'll see more of a push for direct trans-Pacific access before another flight to Europe.

I agree. In fact, I have a colleague who works closely with the Gov's office, and they've made no secret about their desire to subsidize a Pacific flight... when the time's right, of course. That International arrivals operation will need to be up and running like a Swiss watch for any other int'l flights. I think AA knows they're behind the curve for any International flights out of BNA. They may proffer some Central/South American destination... or Canadian even. Speaking of, does anyone have a feel for Canadian airlines' plans for Nashville vis-a-vis a southern hub? 

Edited August 29, 2017 by MLBrumby

[LA_TN]

On 8/29/2017 at 9:42 AM, NashRugger said:

...

While incentives could entice, BNA would be the only non-major hub airport to have nonstop service to Asia on the eastern side of the country. 

But I doubt there are any non-major hubs in the eastern U.S. that have the Japanese ties to match Nashville

On 8/29/2017 at 10:38 AM, MLBrumby said:

I agree. In fact, I have a colleague who works closely with the Gov's office, and they've made no secret about their desire to subsidize a Pacific flight... when the time's right, of course. That International arrivals operation will need to be up and running like a Swiss watch for any other int'l flights. I think AA knows they're behind the curve for any International flights out of BNA. They may proffer some Central/South American destination... or Canadian even. Speaking of, does anyone have a feel for Canadian airlines' plans for Nashville vis-a-vis a southern hub? 

There have been JAL rumors for some time. Still hoping. For soon. I think we are all confident that any needed incentives will occur

The obvious downside to BNA is the lack of connecting flights on AA/OneWorld. It will be a challenge to fill the BA flight or a potential JAL flight without some feeder flights

As for Delta offloading some routes to BNA, it would be nice!! A 777 to Nagoya would be sweet!

[Flatrock]

7 hours ago, LA_TN said:

As for Delta offloading some routes to BNA, it would be nice!! A 777 to Nagoya would be sweet!

Narita?

[LA_TN]

17 hours ago, Flatrock said:

Narita?

NRT (Narita) is in Tokyo and is the obvious first choice. ~40 million passengers, 2 runways

HND (Haneda) is also in Tokyo and would be the second choice. ~80 million passengers, 4 runways. HND is close to downtown Tokyo

NGO (Nagoya) is centrally located in Japan and would be the third choice. ~10 million passengers, 1 runway. NGO offloaded pressure from NRT/HND and is almost entirely an international connection hub to most of eastern Asia (Hong Kong, Bangkok, Shanghai, Seoul, Manila, etc) and is served by Delta, United, etc

Also, Shinkansen (bullet train) to Tokyo is 1.5 hours - to Tokyo station in the heart of downtown. Thus, nearly negates travel time from NRT or HND

Edited September 1, 2017 by LA_TN

[Pdt2f]

If JAL starts a Nashville flight I'd have to believe that AA would mainline and expand a little. A JAL and BA flight would provide too much opportunity for connections not to. I could see them adding PHX and mainlining ORD, JFK, DCA, and LGA. Maybe even PHL. 

[jmtunafish]

9 hours ago, LA_TN said:

NRT (Narita) is in Tokyo and is the obvious first choice. ~80 million passengers, 4 runways

HND (Haneda) is also in Tokyo and would be the second choice. ~40 million passengers, 2 runways. HND is close to downtown Tokyo

NGO (Nagoya) is centrally located in Japan and would be the third choice. ~10 million passengers, 1 runway. NGO offloaded pressure from NRT/HND and is almost entirely an international connection hub to most of eastern Asia (Hong Kong, Bangkok, Shanghai, Seoul, Manila, etc) and is served by Delta, United, etc

Also, Shinkansen (bullet train) to Tokyo is 1.5 hours - to Tokyo station in the heart of downtown. Thus, nearly negates travel time from NRT or HND

You got it backwards.  Haneda has 80 million passengers and 4 runways.  Narita has 40 million passengers and 2 runways; Narita was supposed to have 5, but there was such massive protests over Narita's construction that the government gave up after just 2 runways were built.  Despite being the smaller airport and farther from the city, Narita is the more popular destination for long-haul international flights as it was built precisely for that.  Haneda, the older of the two, became primarily domestic after Narita was built in the 1970s, but now the Japanese government is encouraging more international flights into Haneda and built a new international terminal there in 2010.  Even some US airlines now fly into Haneda:  American (LAX), Delta (LAX and MSP), and United (SFO).  With Tokyo hosting the 2020 Olympics, it's likely there will be even more long-haul international flights into Haneda.

[Flatrock]

2 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

the Japanese government is encouraging more international flights into Haneda and built a new international terminal there in 2010.

I lived in Japan for 3 years on a business gig and flew in/out if Narita about a hundred times. Talk about a pain in the azz. I lived in Kanagawa Prefecture about 30 miles southwest of Tokyo proper...Narita is on the opposite side of town. The record for my longest taxi/train airport trek was 7 hours door to door from my apartment to the airport...about 70 miles. Haneda was mucho convenient, comparably. Since Nissan's world HQ is in Yokohama (part of Tokyo megalopolis),  Bridgestone HQ is in Tokyo...and Calsonic in Saitama  (another Tokyo exurb)...seems much more likely we'd nail a flight to one of the Tokyo airports - rather than Nagoya (Toyota HQ). In addition to the business travel clients, I think Nashville could develop a bona fide tourism stream to/from Japan. 

[LA_TN]

6 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

You got it backwards.  Haneda has 80 million passengers and 4 runways.  Narita has 40 million passengers and 2 runways; Narita was supposed to have 5, but there was such massive protests over Narita's construction that the government gave up after just 2 runways were built.  Despite being the smaller airport and farther from the city, Narita is the more popular destination for long-haul international flights as it was built precisely for that.  Haneda, the older of the two, became primarily domestic after Narita was built in the 1970s, but now the Japanese government is encouraging more international flights into Haneda and built a new international terminal there in 2010.  Even some US airlines now fly into Haneda:  American (LAX), Delta (LAX and MSP), and United (SFO).  With Tokyo hosting the 2020 Olympics, it's likely there will be even more long-haul international flights into Haneda.

Thanks for catching that, my error.

And correct, HND is getting more international flights now. To me, there is not a huge difference between NGO and NRT, but obviously NRT is closer to Tokyo with more connections than NGO