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Nashville International Airport Development thread


Lexy

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Other notes:
1) Runway extension 2L/20R vs. #5 (4th parallel) runway - the issue with #5 is the distance to the terminal. That's a lot of time and gas to burn on taxiways and the airlines will refuse to use #5. The extension to 2L/20R should be the higher priority because that runway has already been upgraded to support heavy planes, but it desperately needs the extension or else all heavy craft will be forced to the crosswind runway. But heavy planes and air traffic will remain a fantasy for BNA, at this rate ...

2) 2L/20R extension - the impact on the area will be minor because the airport authority has been purchasing those properties for years, when they became available. The J&M factory, metro offices will be the only real impact. It would be cool to have a tunnel in town (even if it is on Murf. Pk). New tourist attraction for some!!!

3) terminal expansion - I have heard so many rumors and proposals over the last X years ... most likely for short-term is extending concourse A and then reopen concourse D. Long-term, who knows. the terminal was built too close to 2C/20C, which eliminates expansion to B (and C). One proposal is to place Donelson Pike in a tunnel (like Murf. Rd will be in the future) and build a remote terminal E and/or F where av services are

4) On-site hotel. Think Westin. Needed 5 years ago. And shopping options

5) Need people-movers. Need people-movers. Need people-movers

6) kudos to BNA for making the airport feel like Music City USA

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13 hours ago, titanhog said:

Any chance they'll ever decide this airport property doesn't work anymore and build an airport somewhere else?  (no...I have no clue where that would be)

Nope, that isn't even a possibility within the next 3-5 decades. There is way too much money and investment already there, and has been for over 50 years. 

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20 hours ago, NashRugger said:

Nope, that isn't even a possibility within the next 3-5 decades. There is way too much money and investment already there, and has been for over 50 years. 

Also, compared to a lot of cities, we have an ample amount of airport land. I can't imagine the cost in finding several thousand contiguous, relatively flat acres within 25 miles of Nashville.

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9 minutes ago, Will said:

Strange that a 5th runway is even in the conversation given that many larger, busier airports get it done with just 3 (2 in LHR).

The positioning of runways is much more important than just the number. While LHR only has two, they are placed such that operations on one don't restrict operations on the other. (Of course their terminal situation is a mess.)

For simultaneous takeoffs and landings under instrument flight rules parallel runway centerlines must be spaced 4,300 feet apart. (Visual flight rules only need 700 feet of spacing but these operations are obviously limited by weather and daylight).

BNA's current configuration only allows for dual simultaneous under IFR, on 2R/20L and either 2C/20C or 2L/20R, and then only for smaller jets and when crosswinds aren't prohibitive (where operations switch to 13/31). In other words, out of four runways, only one or two can be used at once, which puts a hard cap on movements (due to aircraft spacing rules) regardless of how traffic is handled. This is common among airports with older field configurations, even busy ones; DFW, for example, has seven runways but can only handle dual simultaneous (though they can assign two runways for landing and two for takeoffs, which helps).

The fifth runway for BNA, with an exception from the FAA for its 3,500-foot spacing from 2R/20L, would allow triple simultaneous, and the extension of 2L/20R would throw large jets in the mix as well. (Like LHR, whether the taxiway and terminal layout would support this is another matter.)

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2 hours ago, UTgrad09 said:

Also, compared to a lot of cities, we have an ample amount of airport land. I can't imagine the cost in finding several thousand contiguous, relatively flat acres within 25 miles of Nashville.

There isn't. The flattest areas are pretty much Murfreesboro area, northern Bedford County and between Mt. Juliet & Lebanon are areas where minimal grading would be required for a new airport. 

 

Needless to say, BNA has ample land and can be flexible for the indefinite future. 

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11 minutes ago, Will said:

So with the current config, what's the largest aircraft BNA can accommodate for regular operations?

They can accommodate the Boeing 747, and did so as a United charter a few months back, all the way up to the gate. The Airbus A380 can't be because BNA doesn't have a double deck gate that can allow for the two-level boarding and deplaning, but the longest runway, the crosswind, is sufficient.

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A few years ago before I moved to Houston from Nashville. A United 777 made an emergency landing from Chicago heading to Miami were one of the Pilots became ill and they had to land the plane at BNA and dock for a few hours. They had to fly a pilot from Dallas to Nashville to continue the trip to Miami. The video is on youtube. Look under 777 at BNA and it will come up.

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4 hours ago, Will said:

So with the current config, what's the largest aircraft BNA can accommodate for regular operations?

Literally anything except the A380. Even military giants like the C-5 and B-1 have landed at BNA before, and previously there were chartered 747 passenger, and regularly scheduled 747 cargo flights.

Good comments on the layout of the runways above, too. Prune hit the nail on the head. The problem is spacing, which is about as good at BNA as it will get anywhere in middle Tennessee because of terrain constraints. Dual runway operations do happen, with simultaneous or near-simultaneous landings happening fairly regularly. Currently, the airfield itself isn't the limiting factor. It has plenty of capacity. It's the terminal, which was designed mainly as a pass-through terminal for the American hub, not end and start point for the number of passengers it is currently seeing. Of course, in the late 80s, would ANYONE have forseen this being an issue here?

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Currently, only the crosswind runway 13/31 can support the A380. 2L/20R would also be able to support the A380 if/when the extension is completed.

As for spacing, dual landings, etc. as pointed out above, all 3 parallel runways can and are used in a stagger pattern, but 2C gets a lot of flights landing from the north while dual landings come from the south. That has been an asset to BNA

Even with 3x the current volume, adding another runway is just a ridiculous waste of money. And, as I mentioned before, airlines will REFUSE to use it due to the distance from the terminal.

Also, BNA is currently upgrading/replacing the boarding bridges, but no gates will be configured to support double-deckers

BNA just can't handle any (serious) international flights until baggage claim and terminal changes are complete. And those are 2 HUGE challenges for the BNA terminal layout. And no plans for any serious upgrades have surfaced publicly that will address either of these needs

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9 hours ago, titanhog said:

So what's the major thing that needs to be done to the terminal to get it ready for the future?

I don't think any one thing cane done to get ready for the future…this is a somewhat simplistic list, but I would say all of these things in tandem need to be developed over the next five years:
 

- Enlarged TSA security area with quicker flow rates.

- Adding 8 more gates along Concourse D, and at least 3 more along Concourse A.  Several have to be for international flights/big-boy jets. Eventually will need an additional brand new concourse to handle at least 12 more gates.  

- Add at least 33% more to baggage claim area, including one section to manage 300+ passenger flights.

- A mass transit station, including a direct link to downtown--preferably rail of some sort. 

- Expanding the main terminal--probably extending it northward on the eastern edge of Concourse A.

Other things that could be on the wish list a little further down include: an on-site hotel, another runway, improved entrance/egress roadways, and an International Terminal/Concourse.   

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My thoughts are that if we start getting a number of international flights, there may be a need for a separate terminal. There could also be a need if another airline decided to make Nashville a hub or mini hub.

 

Remember that American still owns the SW gates, at least as far as I know. Someone correct if that is not the case. But if American came back in, then SW would be in need of a lot more space.....

 

 

There were plans I remember seeing years ago for a second terminal on the other side of the East runway.

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2 hours ago, markhollin said:

- A mass transit station, including a direct link to downtown--preferably rail of some sort.

The cynicist in me says MNAA is reluctant to cooperate in any mass transit solutions to BNA, in order to preserve that sweet, sweet parking revenue. That being said, tourists to Nashville typically don't park their cars at Nashville's airport, and the Nashville and Eastern railway (home to the Music City Star and featuring Riverfront Station downtown) is just two miles away. Whether the current or future number of tourists that would use such a link could justify the cost of building a new railway through the residential neighborhoods that compose those two miles is another matter, however.

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2 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

The cynicist in me says MNAA is reluctant to cooperate in any mass transit solutions to BNA, in order to preserve that sweet, sweet parking revenue. That being said, tourists to Nashville typically don't park their cars at Nashville's airport, and the Nashville and Eastern railway (home to the Music City Star and featuring Riverfront Station downtown) is just two miles away. Whether the current or future number of tourists that would use such a link could justify the cost of building a new railway through the residential neighborhoods that compose those two miles is another matter, however.

True, but commuter rail in most cities doesn't provide service that is anywhere near frequent enough to be considered anything more than something one can rely on to commute to work in the mornings and back home in the evenings, and I'm sure that is doubly true for the Music City Star.  As far as I recall, they only have a few morning trains heading west and a few morning trains heading east.  Even if they added ten more throughout the day it wouldn't be frequent enough to be relied upon by the people constantly coming and going through the airport throughout the day.  

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6 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

True, but commuter rail in most cities doesn't provide service that is anywhere near frequent enough to be considered anything more than something one can rely on to commute to work in the mornings and back home in the evenings, and I'm sure that is doubly true for the Music City Star.  As far as I recall, they only have a few morning trains heading west and a few morning trains heading east.  Even if they added ten more throughout the day it wouldn't be frequent enough to be relied upon by the people constantly coming and going through the airport throughout the day.  

...which leaves plenty of unused track time for the light-rail airport line to zip back and forth all day long! ;-)

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Just now, Vrtigo said:

...which leaves plenty of unused track time for the light-rail airport line to zip back and forth all day long! ;-)

This is what I was getting at. As heavy rail projects connecting airports and CBDs go, it would be trivial to add a wye in the Clover Bottom area, build a new line through two miles of residential neighborhoods (many parcels of which are already owned by MNAA), construct a new rail terminal at or near the airport terminal, perhaps in the land vacated by the impending Donelson Pike relocation (though MNAA wants to use that land to expand garage and short-term parking, again, revenues), and establish hybrid rail service from the airport to Riverfront Station. Even during commuting times, given the Star's current timetable it would not be difficult to overlap or coordinate service to the airport.

But again, the question is whether it would attract enough paying customers to justify the expense, or failing that, who's going to foot the bill. I would guess tourists would compose the bulk of the ridership, since there's nowhere to park economically at Riverfront Station, and anyone who utilizes MTA's bus network is going to use their express to BNA rather than haul luggage through downtown. (Maybe a few SoBro residents could use it.) MNAA also just finished their shiny new CONRAC facility, you can bet the rental car companies are going to be pissed.

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On 6/15/2016 at 3:02 PM, Will said:

24K departing passengers this Monday beat the single-day departure record by 15%.
16K bags processed also a record.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2016/06/14/nashville-international-airport-breaks-record-for.html

Really, really glad I wasn't in the airport Monday...

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