Nashville International Airport Development thread

[markhollin]

BNA ranks #18 of best-run airports in country based on new rankings by American City Journal's Power Rankings of the Top 89 facilities in the nation:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2017/03/16/power-rankingshow-nashville-compares-to-the-best.html

[jmtunafish]

6 hours ago, markhollin said:

BNA ranks #18 of best-run airports in country based on new rankings by American City Journal's Power Rankings of the Top 89 facilities in the nation:

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2017/03/16/power-rankingshow-nashville-compares-to-the-best.html

Very cool!  BNA is in some good company.  But what's with the picture they used for BNA?  Is that the best one they could come up with?  The rest of the pictures are of sleek terminals or aerial shots, but ours is a picture of a food court.  ??

[Neigeville2]

^Actually I thought most of them are pretty unflattering, except for the few like San Jose with some architectural interest.   The Charleston one is just a picture of a gate, it could be anywhere.

[NashRugger]

So I've recently had some conversations at BNA and what I've said before about JetBlue is true, they see Nashville as a place to grow and potentially do so significantly to use it as a focus city for the Midwest (in aviation terms). Also, Spirit wants in and apparently has the plans in the works but a timeline has not been given. A lot hinges in how quickly expanding concourse B and reopening concourse D get done. 

Also, us at Southwest have plans to take BNA to 140-150 flights per day, Orlando Int'l (MCO) is that size currently for Southwest. 

[AUNash]

So I've recently had some conversations at BNA and what I've said before about JetBlue is true, they see Nashville as a place to grow and potentially do so significantly to use it as a focus city for the Midwest (in aviation terms). Also, Spirit wants in and apparently has the plans in the works but a timeline has not been given. A lot hinges in how quickly expanding concourse B and reopening concourse D get done. 
Also, us at Southwest have plans to take BNA to 140-150 flights per day, Orlando Int'l (MCO) is that size currently for Southwest. 

Wow that would be a big jump for SW right? Didn't we just bump up to 100 per day?

So what would be the timeline to get to 140-150? And if we get there, where does that put us on the list of SW stations in terms of flights per day?

[SoundScan]

Here are top 10 (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines):

Southwest Airlines top served cities (as of June 2017)^[26][27][28]

City	Daily departures	Number of gates	Cities served nonstop	Service began	Ref.
Chicago-Midway	236	34	69	1985	[29]
Baltimore-Washington	205	31	64	1993	[30]
Las Vegas	203	24	55	1982	[31]
Denver	196	24	61	2006	[32]
Dallas (Love Field)	180	18	52	1971	[33]
Phoenix	169	24	50	1982	[34]
Houston (Hobby)	162	19	54	1971	[35]
Orlando (MCO)	140	16	41	1996	[36]
Los Angeles (LAX)	129	15	31	1982	[37]
Atlanta	122	18	38	2012	[38]

 

 

[NashRugger]

19 minutes ago, AUNash said:

 

Wow that would be a big jump for SW right? Didn't we just bump up to 100 per day?

So what would be the timeline to get to 140-150? And if we get there, where does that put us on the list of SW stations in terms of flights per day?

 

Nope, Nashville is capped at 99 per day with the highest schedule released thus far. The timeline is roughly 3-5 years, dependent on the economy and all of course. We (Southwest) have picked up 2 of American's former gates and that gives us more room for more capacity. 

Dallas-Love Field (DAL) does 180 flights on 17 1/2 gates, the half is a shared with Delta.

[dxfret]

How could Southwest Airlines grow from the current 99 flights per day up to around 140 per day?  Most all major Southwest destinations are already served by nonstop flights, many with multiple flights. The only major cities lacking nonstop flights from BNA are Portland, OR and Milwaukee.  Perhaps a couple of Caribbean cities?  How exactly does Southwest plan to grow even more at BNA?

[MLBrumby]

I know from a colleague in the airline industry that SWA wants to basically move American Airlines out of BNA. They've already laid out a plan to compete on price, then routes. If you look at their history at BNA, since AA pulled their hub, their takeover of BNA has been masterful. 

No matter what you think of SWA (I rarely fly them), just look at what they've been able to do in their respective strongest markets. They've had a strategy of moving into underserved markets then moving "back" toward the hubs of the majors to pick/chip away at the routes to those markets. 

[NashRugger]

3 hours ago, dxfret said:

How could Southwest Airlines grow from the current 99 flights per day up to around 140 per day?  Most all major Southwest destinations are already served by nonstop flights, many with multiple flights. The only major cities lacking nonstop flights from BNA are Portland, OR and Milwaukee.  Perhaps a couple of Caribbean cities?  How exactly does Southwest plan to grow even more at BNA?

Part of it is moving around connections, particularly out of Midway because of congestion, and by also adding flights to existing routes, like Fort Lauderdale for example. Also, what the above comment said. You go in and compete where you can and slowly add flights, or rush it like Denver (a unique scenario).

99 to 140 really isn't a very difficult thing to achieve. 140 is a maximum, but 120 is more realistic in the near-term. International destinations are likely on the docket for BNA from Southwest, I can't confirm or deny, nor list potential cities. Just say Caribbean and potentially Canada if we can get approval to fly there.

[Hey_Hey]

6 hours ago, dxfret said:

How could Southwest Airlines grow from the current 99 flights per day up to around 140 per day?  Most all major Southwest destinations are already served by nonstop flights, many with multiple flights. The only major cities lacking nonstop flights from BNA are Portland, OR and Milwaukee.  Perhaps a couple of Caribbean cities?  How exactly does Southwest plan to grow even more at BNA?

Assuming the national economy doesn't have an implosion like 2008-2010 again, there's going to be continued organic growth because of the growth Nashville itself has been having.  The airport has had annual growth of 5-10% per year over the last few years.  If that continues and Southwest is able to keep their market share, then it's doable. A 5% passenger growth rate would lead to 127 flights per day in 5 years, a 7.5% growth rate would yield 143 flights in 5 years, and a 10% growth rate would give us 160 flights. unlike most carriers, Southwest can't upsize any of their service either since they exclusively fly 737s.

[wboarder44]

On 3/25/2017 at 3:44 PM, Hey_Hey said:

Southwest can't upsize any of their service either since they exclusively fly 737s.

Not entirely true as they can fly the 737-800 into Nashville more.  It has an additional 30 or seats over the smaller 737s.  

[UTgrad09]

February passenger numbers are in...and again, while it wasn't a million passenger month, it was a respectable increase over last year.

February 2016 - 836,046

February 2017 - 907,937 +8.6% +71,891

[UTgrad09]

Btw, the running 12-month total for BNA is 13,162,163.

[MidTenn1]

I'm going to put this comment here as opposed to elsewhere since I know a lot of you guys and gals and also know that you won't take it as a city versus city criticism. It is a cautionary note about airport growth and what Nashville needs to watch out for if they ever want a top tier airport.

I traveled through the Charlotte, NC airport twice this week on my way to and from Raleigh-Durham on American Airlines and have a few comments;

• Charlotte is a top 10 USA airport and it shows when you pass through. The layout is huge (going from Gate A20 to B20 is a marathon if you are trying to make a connection).
• The airport is packed with masses of people in the waiting areas walking and sprinting (mostly) down the walkways.
• There are not enough gates or runways for the amount of air traffic passing through the airport. We had a couple of half-hour waits on the taxiways and tarmac. As we took off, I counted over 12 planes lined up behind us waiting to takeoff.

My takeaway...

Charlotte did a good job in trying to keep up with the growth created by becoming an American Airlines hub, but is not able to stay ahead of the curve right now. Maybe they can implement a plan soon to add a runway and relieve on-ground plane congestion. I know there are plans to spend a billion dollars on the Nashville airport, but they need to keep an eye on how Charlotte plans to eventually accommodate the growth.

As for me, I will take SWA direct to Raleigh in the future even at a slightly higher price.

Still love ya Charlotte (beautiful skyline, light rail, trolleys and great sports town). Don't take this personally.

Edited April 3, 2017 by PHofKS

[nashvylle]

2 hours ago, PHofKS said:

I'm going to put this comment here as opposed to elsewhere since I know a lot of you guys and gals and also know that you won't take it as a city versus city criticism. It is a cautionary note about airport growth and what Nashville needs to watch out for if they ever want a top tier airport.

I traveled through the Charlotte, NC airport twice this week on my way to and from Raleigh-Durham on American Airlines and have a few comments;

• Charlotte is a top 10 USA airport and it shows when you pass through. The layout is huge (going from Gate A20 to B20 is a marathon if you are trying to make a connection).
• The airport is packed with masses of people in the waiting areas walking and sprinting (mostly) down the walkways.
• There are not enough gates or runways for the amount of air traffic passing through the airport. We had a couple of half-hour waits on the taxiways and tarmac. As we took off, I counted over 12 planes lined up behind us waiting to takeoff.

My takeaway...

Charlotte did a good job in trying to keep up with the growth created by becoming an American Airlines hub, but is not able to stay ahead of the curve right now. Maybe they can implement a plan soon to add a runway and relieve on-ground plane congestion. I know there are plans to spend a billion dollars on the Nashville airport, but they need to keep an eye on how Charlotte plans to eventually accommodate the growth.

As for me, I will take SWA direct to Raleigh in the future even at a slightly higher price.

Still love ya Charlotte (beautiful skyline, light rail, trolleys and great sports town). Don't take this personally.

I have never had a good experience at Charlotte's airport. 

[MLBrumby]

No slight against CLT from me, I just despise American Airlines. I'll relay my experience from first year of law school. AA's legal department was recruiting and invited four of us to their HQ in Ft. Worth. So they "booked" our flight out of RDU... as STANDBY!!!! Cheapskates.  Now, I'm all for sensible budgets and my expectations aren't so high and exacting (and much less back then); I didn't expect first class.  So our lucky day to fly to DFW came and weather had their eastern routes all f-'ed up.  We tried to get on subsequent flights... to be bumped at the last minute.  Long-story-short, we arrived at our hotel that night at the DFW airport at 12:30 MIDNIGHT!  I'll just say that all four of us agreed the next morning that we wouldn't work there that summer if they paid us (joke)... but the day of interviews was very fun. We didn't care what we said to their top brass. Lesson there was that all of us interviewed better when we were relaxed... and that helped us later in the process. 

Regarding CLT, they have made some much needed updates. However, I don't believe they were made with AA's buying US Airways in mind. I could be wrong, but it seems they're playing catchup now. Anyway, I haven't been through CLT much because I avoid AA at almost any cost.

[donNdonelson2]

I flew AA today, Fort Lauderdale to Raleigh-Durham via Charlotte. Spent a miserable hour on the tarmac waiting behind the backed-up line for takeoff in Charlotte. No weather issues-no mechanical issues-just poor planning, or so it would seem. Please save BNA from such growth related problems!

[NashRugger]

The problem with Charlotte is back to its days as a US Airways hub. The terminal layout is a mess and was not meant to handle the level of traffic it has now and AA has been slowly pulling flights from CLT and moving them elsewhere due to congestion and lack of gate space. The concourses are not wide enough for the traffic either. I've been through twice, never again.

[jmtunafish]

CLT's days as a hub go way back to the 1970s when it was the major hub for North Carolina's own Piedmont Airlines.  Piedmont's HQ was in Winston-Salem, but its hub was CLT.  USAir inherited CLT as a hub when it bought Piedmont.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that the city of Charlotte has benefited greatly from being a major hub for a major airline. 

[AUNash]

I agree with the criticisms of layout. Whenever I go through CLT it feels overcrowded and inefficient. I try to go on SWA whenever I can, but when I need a legacy carrier I pick Delta every time. Not only is their product better, but I think ATL is a much better designed airport than CLT. My two cents.

[MidTenn1]

14 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

I flew AA today, Fort Lauderdale to Raleigh-Durham via Charlotte. Spent a miserable hour on the tarmac waiting behind the backed-up line for takeoff in Charlotte. No weather issues-no mechanical issues-just poor planning, or so it would seem. Please save BNA from such growth related problems!

Definitely sounds like 'something rotten'.

[Rockatansky]

Great. I'm flying through CLT this June. <fingerscrossed>

[Lexy]

Our airport, ramp side, is laid out poorly.  Very little room and no chance for double taxiways because of that silly hole between C and B concourse.  

 

As for Southwest pushing AA out.  Not gonna happen.  There will always be a huge demand for premium travel into and out of Nashville.  Southwest will not deliver that regardless of price point.  They don't even have a club for crying out loud (because they don't have a club product).  The one airline that could REALLY come out of nowhere would be Delta or United.  American has seemed to have forgotten the importance of Nashville to their network.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Lexy

[dmillsphoto]

2 hours ago, Lexy said:

Our airport, ramp side, is laid out poorly.  Very little room and no chance for double taxiways because of that silly hole between C and B concourse.  

 

As for Southwest pushing AA out.  Not gonna happen.  There will always be a huge demand for premium travel into and out of Nashville.  Southwest will not deliver that regardless of price point.  They don't even have a club for crying out loud (because they don't have a club product).  The one airline that could REALLY come out of nowhere would be Delta or United.  American has seemed to have forgotten the importance of Nashville to their network.

Agreed, and especially on the point of Delta coming in. With the changes their CEO has been making of late to stay competitive, he did mention Nashville when talking to Kai Rysdall a couple months back on Marketplace. Now whether that comes to fruition is another point, but we need more than just additional airlines. We're gonna need reconfiguration and addition to the airport to support what we all really want. More parking doesn't get us there...