Project Thread/New Construction/Photo du jour/Const. CAMs

[Jamie Hall]

17 hours ago, LA_TN said:

we don't need to lose any more churches downtown

It might be inevitable. I've known friends and acquaintances who regularly attended churches downtown, but they eventually left because traffic and parking made it too difficult to attend services and church functions -- even on Sunday mornings. And if downtown's newer residents are mostly younger people, studies show that they don't attend church regularly the way previous generations did.

I'm not aware of hard numbers, but my impression is that overall church attendance downtown is or will be on a downward trend, and that's going to make it more difficult to keep up those big facilities open. I already know of one big, historic downtown church that's struggling because of low membership. They can't keep the doors open if there aren't members to help pay the bills.

[NashvilleObserver]

23 hours ago, LA_TN said:

No sir, they are doing well. And while this is not a gorgeous cathedral, we don't need to lose any more churches downtown

I think unless it IS a gorgeous cathedral (or a historic building) theres no need for churches downtown. Put them where higher concentrations of residents are located. Wouldn't it make the most financial sense for churches to sell their PRIME downtown real estate and move somewhere else so the congregation wouldn't have to fight downtown traffic/search for parking on Sunday mornings? 

Seems like a win-win to me.

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, NashvilleObserver said:

I think unless it IS a gorgeous cathedral (or a historic building) theres no need for churches downtown. Put them where higher concentrations of residents are located. Wouldn't it make the most financial sense for churches to sell their PRIME downtown real estate and move somewhere else so the congregation wouldn't have to fight downtown traffic/search for parking on Sunday mornings? 

Seems like a win-win to me.

That's assuming that no one downtown wants to worship there...but I kinda agree.  Sell your prime land and then build something up to date with a better parking situation...and probably money left over to help with missionaries and the such.

[arkitekte]

5 hours ago, NashvilleObserver said:

I think unless it IS a gorgeous cathedral (or a historic building) theres no need for churches downtown. Put them where higher concentrations of residents are located. Wouldn't it make the most financial sense for churches to sell their PRIME downtown real estate and move somewhere else so the congregation wouldn't have to fight downtown traffic/search for parking on Sunday mornings? 

Seems like a win-win to me.

I guess that's assuming the thousands of people we want moving to downtown only want to eat at a non-chain restaurant and grocery shop, but not worship?

Downtown churches do well places where people live downtown. 

[markhollin]

TBT: One of the earliest maps of Nashville, circa 1804

[titanhog]

Wow!  Look at those straight streets.  That must have been before Nashville became so hilly. 

[grilled_cheese]

7 hours ago, arkitekte said:

I guess that's assuming the thousands of people we want moving to downtown only want to eat at a non-chain restaurant and grocery shop, but not worship?

Downtown churches do well places where people live downtown.  

That's exactly what we want.  Why would we want the alternative?

[bigeasy]

I am kinda surprised nobody has pursued a design that would combine both a skyscraper and a church. Why couldn't they make it a mix use building like others downtown? Just instead of multiple restaurants, a store, etc, it would be a church. You could have part of the first few floors be for the church, parking, lobby. Allow the members to park there for free on Sundays? Maybe make the design to where it could be converted down the road if the church was to leave.

As a member of a church, and someone who is pretty involved, I would be all about living in a building like this. I couldn't imagine how much more I could be involved if I just had to go downstairs. I would think the opportunities to have community events would increase much more as well.

Edited January 11, 2019 by bigeasy

[jmtunafish]

1 hour ago, bigeasy said:

I am kinda surprised nobody has pursued a design that would combine both a skyscraper and a church. Why couldn't they make it a mix use building like others downtown? Just instead of multiple restaurants, a store, etc, it would be a church. You could have part of the first few floors be for the church, parking, lobby. Allow the members to park there for free on Sundays? Maybe make the design to where it could be converted down the road if the church was to leave.

As a member of a church, and someone who is pretty involved, I would be all about living in a building like this. I couldn't imagine how much more I could be involved I could be if I just had to go downstairs. I would think the opportunities to have community events would increase much more as well.

I agree, I don't know why this isn't done more often.  Here are a few examples I'm aware of.

A Methodist church in Hong Kong:

 

A Mormon church in Hong Kong:

 

And I like this one, where the Mormons razed some decrepit buildings in downtown Philadelphia and then built a church and a 32-story apartment tower on the same property:

[CenterHill]

2 hours ago, bigeasy said:

I am kinda surprised nobody has pursued a design that would combine both a skyscraper and a church. Why couldn't they make it a mix use building like others downtown? Just instead of multiple restaurants, a store, etc, it would be a church. You could have part of the first few floors be for the church, parking, lobby. Allow the members to park there for free on Sundays? Maybe make the design to where it could be converted down the road if the church was to leave.

As a member of a church, and someone who is pretty involved, I would be all about living in a building like this. I couldn't imagine how much more I could be involved I could be if I just had to go downstairs. I would think the opportunities to have community events would increase much more as well.

Maybe because the church would have to pay rent in a new development and no developer wants to give a tenant free space.     Most urban churches have owned their properties for many years and are exempt from property tax.     

[MLBrumby]

What other midsize city in (not just the South but) the country has a Midtown this dense? Plus, 5 building of 20+ stories are u/c and 2 others planned just in this view. Not even counting three buildings of 10+ stories u/c. Would love to see what @PHofKS can do with this photo to include Broadwest, Kennect, B'way Hotel, Graduate, West End Apt. Tower, Flank and Asurion. You could even see the Vandy residential tower, but of course, that view will also be without Carmichael Towers. 

Plus, nobody has seen what Vandy has planned for that low-rise area right smack in the middle of this view; the property they own between 20th/21st and Broadway. 

So can anyone else ... @titanhog ... imagine how this view might change?

[OnePointEast]

Is Nashville still considered midsize? Awesome picture, also.

Edited January 10, 2019 by OnePointEast

[BnaBreaker]

Not to be contrarian, but I would argue that Midtown  really isn't very dense at all.  It has a relatively high amount of highrises, yes, but that hasn't, as of yet, translated into all that much density as the landscape is still made up primarily of parking lots and suburban style development.  Those parking minimums and setback requirements of the past decades seriously set the neighborhood as a whole back a great deal.  Looking at a birds eye view of the neighborhood is a tough pill to swallow.  Most of midtown, save for a few blocks here and there, has a long way to go, especially at street level, before it could be considered anything resembling a cohesive, walkable urban neighborhood.  All that negative nancy stuff being said, however, I definitely agree that few cities Nashville's size have a district outside of their respective downtown areas that can match it, and it is rapidly changing for the better.  I can't wait to see how it evolves and progresses in the near future!  Hopefully all of the high quality aforementioned projects (aforementioned in a different thread, turns out) along West End Ave. will inspire a neighborhood wide transition into more compact, localized, pedestrian oriented development patterns.  

Edited January 10, 2019 by BnaBreaker

[satalac]

I don't really see churches leaving downtown anytime soon, especially not with more people moving in. Also, parking isn't an issue if you can walk to your church from your home. 

[arkitekte]

11 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

That's exactly what we want.  Why would we want the alternative?

Well, I was being partially sarcastic to the response that a church should move from the CBD given we constantly complain that there aren't other everyday or weekly things that people need if they live in the CBD. 

Or are you being sarcastic to my sarcasm?

[LA_TN]

5 hours ago, arkitekte said:

Well, I was being partially sarcastic to the response that a church should move from the CBD given we constantly complain that there aren't other everyday or weekly things that people need if they live in the CBD. 

Or are you being sarcastic to my sarcasm?

No, he's not being sarcastic

Some people think all churches should be removed. My apologies getting this thread off topic. Let's please stop

[markhollin]

[dReAmWiELdEr]

I just want to say thank everyone on this and all other Nashville forums. I had to move to the Atlanta area in 2015 and have not been able to return to Nashville since due to medical reasons. You guys make my day almost every day with what you post!

[dReAmWiELdEr]

I am kinda surprised nobody has pursued a design that would combine both a skyscraper and a church. Why couldn't they make it a mix use building like others downtown? Just instead of multiple restaurants, a store, etc, it would be a church. You could have part of the first few floors be for the church, parking, lobby. Allow the members to park there for free on Sundays? Maybe make the design to where it could be converted down the road if the church was to leave. As a member of a church, and someone who is pretty involved, I would be all about living in a building like this. I couldn't imagine how much more I could be involved if I just had to go downstairs. I would think the opportunities to have community events would increase much more as well. 

 

This is one of the best ideas I’ve ever heard! 

 

[Mr_Bond]

1 hour ago, dReAmWiELdEr said:

I just want to say thank everyone on this and all other Nashville forums. I had to move to the Atlanta area in 2015 and have not been able to return to Nashville since due to medical reasons. You guys make my day almost every day with what you post!

Now I can tell my wife that I HAVE to spend time on UP because people are counting on me!  Yes!!!

[Jonny11788]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:29 AM, jmtunafish said:

I agree, I don't know why this isn't done more often.  Here are a few examples I'm aware of.

Another example up here in Chicago is the First United Methodist Church, which is mixed-use church and office space. Interestingly, according to the Wiki article its construction was the result of a debate similar to the one going on here:

Quote

The current structure was completed after a debate within the congregation whether the church should remain in central Chicago or sell its valuable property and relocate to the growing suburban areas.

 

[Tennessine]

^ That is really cool!

[markhollin]

Courtesy of Jon Holiday Collection:

 

[KJHburg]

In terms of churches in downtown areas, in Charlotte many years ago First Methodist Church sold their parking lot but got Sunday rights to free parking for their church next door.  Dittos down Tryon St at St Peters Catholic Church when now Wells Fargo developed a new building and condo building their members get free parking for all services.  However the key is downtown residential is the key as most go to a church fairly close by.  

In the busy Southpark Mall area of Charlotte right now a Presbyterian Church with large land holding sold their land and building and a huge mixed used project with apartments retail hotel and the church will occupy the land now called Apex Southpark which is underway now.   https://www.apexsouthpark.com/

 

[MLBrumby]

I know that Presbyterian church. My law school classmate was married there. Always thought it was a beautiful oasis in a commercial sea. So sorry to see it's being replaced with the same boxy crap that's invading every other city these days.