No Pedestrian Path to Uptown

[MZT]

At 1.5 mil per bridge, we could have built 200 bridges for the price of the Bobcats Arena.

[cinco]

I wonder why the US has trillions of dollars in debt.

cause we're building bridges in iraq....

[reverbandwhiskey]

At 1.5 mil per bridge, we could have built 200 bridges for the price of the Bobcats Arena.

But then we wouldn't have our crappy bsaketball team.

[AuLukey]

Here is a map of pedestrian paths into Uptown from over/under I-277 and I-77.

Green = established as a street and/or pedestrian path

Red = other entrance into Uptown (not an established pedestrian path, but people do use them)

This post was in another thread, but does this diagram not contradict this thread?

cause we're building bridges in iraq.... smile.gif

nice

[Charlotte_native]

This post was in another thread, but does this diagram not contradict this thread?

nice

It doesn't contradict it, these are routes used that are existing roadway bridges or roads under 277. What soundend folks and dilworth folks want is a dedicated pedestrian bridge or pedestrian bridge tied to an existing auto bridge that would have wider sidewalks, bike lanes, etc., that would be safer than walking beside rush hour cars.

[dubone]

Take a close look at how many green lines are between College Street and McDowell Street. That is 7 blocks with absolutely no pedestrians allowed to cross. 7 blocks is roughly 3/4 of a mile. In an urban context, that is a huge barrier. It used to be 6 blocks when they had the sidewalk on the trolley bridge, but now even that is gone. We desparately sidewalks on South Blvd, and an Alexander/Davidson to Euclid connector bridge.

Also, his green lines represent at least a sidewalk, but having a sidewalk does not mean it is pedestrian friendly. College Street has a very skinny sidewalk that runs along a major thoroughfare with people having just gotten off of the freeway. There are no right angle turns to slow them down (beyond the exit loop, which does slow them down a bit). I believe money should be spent improving the sidewalk and bikelane crossings on all most of those green lines, and then adding the planned connections on a reconfigured South Blvd interchange and a new bridge connecting Euclid to Davidson or Alexander.

That would return that section to the more palatable 3 blocks between connections.

[monsoon]

Unfortunately there really isn't much that can be done to make an 8 lane highway friendly to pedestrians. Looking at that aerial one can see that along the highway, its pretty void of anything so even if the bridges were there, people are not going to use them. It would be a pretty significant walk from areas in say south end to anything in downtown. Even more so between Dilworth and 2nd ward. Sure you might get a few bike riders and die hards that like to walk, but most people simply won't use them. This is borne out in other cities that have attempted to correct similar mistakes in urban planning.

I-277 represents a pretty significant barrier between downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods, and unless part of this highway is removed and redeveloped, its pretty much going to stay that way. The best we can hope for is the transit lines will provide some connectivity between downtown and the neighborhoods that are lucky enough to get a transit station on one of the LRT lines. In this aspect South End will be fairly lucky.

[dubone]

It is not about aesthetics, though, it is about real connectivity. I have walked across or under those various bridges hundreds, if not thousands of times, and countless others have too. In an urban context, there is plenty that is ugly and not exciting to walk past, but as long as you have some where to go, and it is reasonable to walk there, you will. Many many people walk uptown from nearby neighborhoods. The freeways do not stop them from doing that except in the few places where they would need to walk far out of their way because there is no crossing.

Bridges help in the pursuit of connectivity, which is why the people who bike and walk to work across 277 are pushing for them. While a ring of pastureland would be attractive, it is just not practical. (Not to mention that I would likely need to move out from uptown if the freeway weren't there, as would a significant number of my neighbors who either reverse commute or have spouses that do.)

[Arlyn15]

It is not about aesthetics, though, it is about real connectivity. I have walked across or under those various bridges hundreds, if not thousands of times, and countless others have too. In an urban context, there is plenty that is ugly and not exciting to walk past, but as long as you have some where to go, and it is reasonable to walk there, you will. Many many people walk uptown from nearby neighborhoods. The freeways do not stop them from doing that except in the few places where they would need to walk far out of their way because there is no crossing.

Bridges help in the pursuit of connectivity, which is why the people who bike and walk to work across 277 are pushing for them. While a ring of pastureland would be attractive, it is just not practical. (Not to mention that I would likely need to move out from uptown if the freeway weren't there, as would a significant number of my neighbors who either reverse commute or have spouses that do.)

Just out of curiousity, how many people would be benefited by a pedestrian walkway to Southend? How many people live in that area that would walk to work?

[karmst]

Me for one. I live in Southend and I walk into town every weekend for excercise and to nose around all the new construction. I do not work in Charlotte as I am out of town most weeks, but I am sure that if I did work downtown I would walk to work every day.

After all, it's only 10-15mins from Jillians area to Trade/Tryon square (not even a mile)...maybe 7mins to the Westin. Not that bad at all a walk.

-k

[monsoon]

Just out of curiousity, how many people would be benefited by a pedestrian walkway to Southend? How many people live in that area that would walk to work?

My guess is not many. There were almost no people using the nice sidewalk that followed the trolley when it was there.

[orulz]

I concur with monsoon - the few times that I saw that sidewalk, it was quite heavily used in south end but there was essentially nobody on it north of Carson (I think - but my recollection ain't all that...)

It makes a great connection to the Westin and the convention center, but you have to go quite out of your way to actually go into town.

[AuLukey]

I too have to agree with metro, to what extent are people going to be using a walkway that doesn't connect more than a two or three block area of southend to an even more dead corner of uptown? Of course some will, but is it worth the money to save ten minutes on a jog? I thought the idea behind a jog was to run, not to actually get somewhere.

[voyager12]

Perhaps if the connections from Southend to Uptown were made more palatable and pedestrian friendly we would see an uptick in foot traffic. With all the condos going up in Southend so close to Uptown, I have to believe that many future residents are going to want to have the option of biking or walking to work. During festivals and football games many of my neighbors walk to Uptown and I live off of East just below Worthington.

[reverbandwhiskey]

Perhaps if the connections from Southend to Uptown were made more palatable and pedestrian friendly we would see an uptick in foot traffic. With all the condos going up in Southend so close to Uptown, I have to believe that many future residents are going to want to have the option of biking or walking to work. During festivals and football games many of my neighbors walk to Uptown and I live off of East just below Worthington.

The sidewalk that ran along the Trolley served as an important connector for bike commuters to get into Uptown without having to deal with car traffic. I also agree that with the incredible amount of condos in the South End that we need to ensure that those people havea variety of transit options.

[lewy2000]

There may not be a lot of foot traffic now, but I think you have to plan for the future. What about when the NHOF, Wachovia museum and theater open?

[atlrvr]

When I lived there, I used the trolley bridge a couple times a week (before they closed it), and while not overly busy, I always passed several people.

Also, in a city seriously lacking urban greenways, it provided this function.

[reverbandwhiskey]

When I lived there, I used the trolley bridge a couple times a week (before they closed it), and while not overly busy, I always passed several people.

Also, in a city seriously lacking urban greenways, it provided this function.

What angers me is that it is being cut due to an $800,000 shortfall. It seems like such a small amount of money to keep the bridge alive.

How about selling naming rights to the bridge to BofA? We could put BofA signs on both sides of 277...

[cinco]

^ i don't know what you guys have witnessed, but i see plenty of people walking across the brigdes of tryon and college... daily. i can't think of a more used pedestrian access point - anywhere else around the city? maybe what i've seen - doesn't warrant a new ped/cycle bridge (which i think it does), but i certainly think a new bridge would see an increase in foot traffic. as the city continues to grow, so will this kind of need. i don't think the city could possibly go wrong with building this bridge. i think it's short-sighted not to.... if you think it's expensive now, just wait a few more years.

[Charlotte_native]

The sidewalk beside the trolley ended at the bridge at 277 so you had to finish the walk by going down the tracks to the Westin. Myself and friends the live in Factory South still used it, but I think the average person would have avoided it for that reason.

As for how many people would use a pedestrian bridge it is hard to say, but these factors make me believe it would have a lot of traffic.

1) go downtown at 5:00 any week day (that isn't 99 degrees outside) and look at just how many people use the Tryon Street and College Street bridges now. I tried to ride my bike downtown one day at 5:00 and took that route because of the wide sidewalks --we had to ride in the road because both sides were PACKED with people leaving center city. This was in May.

2) there are a lot of dense developments going up and being announced within 4 or 5 blocks of the center city along South Blvd and Camden/Tryon -- this will add even more people that would likely use the bridge.

3) there are many developments just across 277 that will have amenites i think people would walk to if they had easy access: the Third Ward park, the Wachovia package, restaurants and bars, Epicentre...

If people are already walking across bridges that aren't pretty and have a lot of cars whizzing by and these developments aren't done, IMO more will when it is convenient, safer, and there is more to actually walk to.

[reverbandwhiskey]

"The sidewalk beside the trolley ended at the bridge at 277 so you had to finish the walk by going down the tracks to the Westin. Myself and friends the live in Factory South still used it, but I think the average person would have avoided it for that reason."

You must not have used it too often. They finished the sidewalk about a year ago. It was paved all the way to the Westin.

[Charlotte_native]

You must not have used it too often. They finished the sidewalk about a year ago. It was paved all the way to the Westin.

I did miss that. We quit using the route because of where it ended, we got off the sidewalk at Summit Grandview and took the College Bridge. Glad to know they finished that part in time to stop the trolley!

[dubone]

I stopped using it a long time ago, too, but only because I found it annoying to go down the steps from Morehead and then down the steps again at Stonewall. I personally had no trouble using Tryon or College as long as I was headed from the Dilworth area to the CBD. If I was heading toward First or Second Ward from the Y or that area, I'd typically just walk along South Blvd, in the shoulder. (I don't have a death wish, I swear). I used to climb up under the Morehead bridge, but then I got some sort of poison ivy from the weeds under there, so I started just walking the rest of the way to Lexington, which is pretty dangerous because they don't trim back the bushes.

Yes, all this to avoid walking 4 extra blocks (Caldwell to the tracks, up the stairs at the Westin, across the tracks, up the stairs to Morehead, and then back across the Morehead/South bridge). Walking from First and Second Ward to Dilworth is just not easy without going 1/3 - 1/2 a mile out of the way.

[Charlotte_native]

It is amazing how your description is for the routes to take from one of our more urban neigborhoods to center city!! Just why we need a good bridge complete without poisen ivy.