Is NWA being 'milked' by the rest of the state?

[itk]

It just seems to me that the infrastructure is just going to get so far behind that it's going to drag growth down at some point no matter how well other aspects are in NWA.

I think this is a good opportunity for me to express my personal opinion on this matter, which I don't think I have before-- that is, which many NWArkians express rather poignantly it seems, NWA needs to catch up on its transportation infrastructure or the economy/growth of the region will slow or halt.

However, I think this is overstated a lot, although I do definitely sympathize with the concern. Take, for example, Bentonville/Centerton/Rogers (Benton County for the most part). Residential sprawl is happening without road improvements (unless you count some paving of some existing old farm roads). Commercial sprawl is happening in SW Rogers without road improvements (though one could argue that it wouldn't have happened without, at least, the promise of road improvements). Growth to XNA along Hwy 12 is happening without any improvements. Benton County seems to be a great example of an exception to a widely held "rule" (or notion) by many in the country-- that is, new highways and wider highways encourages sprawl. Not in the case in Benton County (granted, it is on a smaller scale than big metros like DFW); this is another discussion for another time, however.

Traffic in areas in NWA is really bad. But still not as bad as some bigger cities (look at LA, or Atlanta, or DFW, or Austin, or many other fast-growing cities). Traffic can get much, much worse but the metro can still grow.

I can tell you when you know a metro area has got major traffic problems-- when it becomes a non-attainment area (as designated by the EPA). If, hypothetically speaking, that were to ever happen in the future, THEN that could stymy growth (at least industrial growth, as it would come under EPA bureaucracy; and even face the threat of losing transportation federal funds). But big metros with big traffic congestion have those kinds of problems. Hopefully NWA will avoid that with transportation improvements.

Now, does traffic congestion negatively impact society, businesses, industry, etc.? Definitely. But cities and the people who live in it deal with it. The big question I wonder about is how cities/metro areas/states/federal govt will deal with auto congestion-- there's just wayyy too much growing traffic problems, and not nearly enough money to "build our way out of it", so to speak. That's where things like smart growth, TODs, new urbanism, etc. get talked about. Anyway, I digress.

Infrastructure like water, sewer, etc. have a just as big of an impact on sprawl than transportation (if not more). You can have sprawl on little ol' two-lane roads, but none of that could happen without, for example, water lines.

[masons_dad1]

Maybe, we should just become our own state? We can take Washington, Benton, Carroll, and Madison counties and become the great state of NWA. We can make Fayetteville the capitol so that we are not losing money to cover the "poorer" areas of the state.

On a side note. I would most certainly call our corner of the state more Mid Western that the rest. I would be proud be considered from the midwest. I don't really care for the south it is hot!

I brought up NWA seceding from the state quite some time ago. NWA could become one of the wealthiest states in the nation if that happened. We really would have streets paved with gold, which is what a lot of people around the country already think we have. But, the reality is that our money is better served paving some dirt roads in a bunch of backwater towns throughout the state. I mean you never know when those little towns may start booming! At least that's the sentiment of our noble governor. He seems to think that NWA isn't that big a deal to the state. I'd like to watch his reaction if the state suddenly lost the revenue from this "not so important "part of the state".

[North Pulaski Player]

NWA's population will level off in the next 15-20 years anyway, not because of a lack of adequate infrastructure, but because its economy is not diverse enough. NWA Metro will never exceed 500,000 unless its economy becomes significantly more diverse. LR Metro may not have a population "boom" anytime soon but its population will continue to experience a steady growth for many decades to come. Due to steady growth and eventually acquiring Jefferson and White Counties into its MSA, the Little Rock Metro will reach a population of 1 million by 2020.

[CentralArkansas]

If anyone has heard the news down in Little Rock lately the crime scene is getting really bad again. That is something that could stop their growth pretty quick. Little Rock in the early 90's was like a third world country in parts. Let's hope it doesn't get that bad again

Good grief people, this is why there is tension between certain parts of the state. The way you all see it, NWA is the Garden of Eden and Little Rock is the devil's den trying to keep NWA down.

Anyway, the crime in LR is really overstated, and people ignorant of the situation that try to make Little Rock out to be a dangerous place couldn't be more wrong. If you aren't buying drugs or cruising the wrong (very secluded, very small) part of town, Little Rock is as safe as any place in the country. Including *gasp* NWA.

[masons_dad1]

NWA's population will level off in the next 15-20 years anyway, not because of a lack of adequate infrastructure, but because its economy is not diverse enough. NWA Metro will never exceed 500,000 unless its economy becomes significantly more diverse. LR Metro may not have a population "boom" anytime soon but its population will continue to experience a steady growth for many decades to come. Due to steady growth and eventually acquiring Jefferson and White Counties into its MSA, the Little Rock Metro will reach a population of 1 million by 2020.

Forbes Best Places For Business And Careers (As of July 4th, 2006):

Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers metro (NWA):

*7th Best Metro for Job Growth

*11th Best Metro for Income Growth

*15th Best Metro for Net Migration

*23rd Best Metro for Cost of Doing Business

*9th Best Metro Overall for Business and Careers

Little Rock-North Little Rock

*85th Best Metro for Job Growth

*10th Best Metro for Income Growth

*84th Best Metro for Net Migration

*38th Best Metro for Cost of Doing Business

*22nd Best Metro Overall for Business and Careers

Best Places For Business And Careers - Forbes

Good grief people, this is why there is tension between certain parts of the state. The way you all see it, NWA is the Garden of Eden and Little Rock is the devil's den trying to keep NWA down.

Anyway, the crime in LR is really overstated, and people ignorant of the situation that try to make Little Rock out to be a dangerous place couldn't be more wrong. If you aren't buying drugs or cruising the wrong (very secluded, very small) part of town, Little Rock is as safe as any place in the country. Including *gasp* NWA.

How is the crime rate in Little Rock overstated, when in 2003 the US Census Bureau rated Little Rock-North Little Rock as the large-sized metro with the 5th highest crime rate in the country? That makes Little Rock-North Little Rock the 95th safest large-sized metro out of 100 large-size metros in the country.

100 Large-sized Metros - Sperling's Best Places

The Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers metro (NWA) is the 23rd safest mid-size metro out of 114 mid-size metros in the country, according to the US Census Bureau.

114 Mid-sized Metros - Sperling's Best Places

Not to argue or anything... just trying to post some facts.

.

[KJW]

NWA's population will level off in the next 15-20 years anyway, not because of a lack of adequate infrastructure, but because its economy is not diverse enough. NWA Metro will never exceed 500,000 unless its economy becomes significantly more diverse. LR Metro may not have a population "boom" anytime soon but its population will continue to experience a steady growth for many decades to come. Due to steady growth and eventually acquiring Jefferson and White Counties into its MSA, the Little Rock Metro will reach a population of 1 million by 2020.

I think that's great NPP...one could wonder whether someday NWA and Fort Smith could become a near continuous metro area for all intents and purposes (even if not physically) as well...right now that would put the combined population at approximately 670,000 right now as I type this. You talk about a "diverse" market area should that happen...

I fail to see how Arkansas having two big metro areas, if decisions are made wisely, is going to hurt.

Heck, right now we've got people scratching their heads over the largest budget surplus apparently in state history. Perhaps that's come about partially as a result of good economic performance from both metro areas?

[jdevers]

I fail to see how Arkansas having two big metro areas, if decisions are made wisely, is going to hurt.

I couldn't agree more. Most of the states bordering us are primarily rural with 2+ metro areas, the only exception is Mississippi. Missouri has our problem and then some, they have two large metro areas (STL and KC) and one moderate size one (SFD), none of which are the state capital. They seem to do a pretty good job with getting road funding to the three metros. Oklahoma has Tulsa and OKC, they are in a very similiar situation to us. Tulsa has generally always done better than OKC financially (that is starting to change somewhat though), yet is smaller. OKC is the state capital as well. Tennessee has Memphis and Nashville as well as a couple of moderate size metros and they seem to be handling the road situation OK. Same with Louisiana (3 metros, Shreveport, Baton Rouge, and NOLO). Texas is an entirely different discussion, but it also doesn't have just one large metro. It has two very large ones (Dallas and Houston), one large (San Antonio) and several moderate sized ones (Austin on down). None of the three largest metros are their state capital.

[Aporkalypse]

I think that's great NPP...one could wonder whether someday NWA and Fort Smith could become a near continuous metro area for all intents and purposes (even if not physically) as well...right now that would put the combined population at approximately 670,000 right now as I type this. You talk about a "diverse" market area should that happen...

I fail to see how Arkansas having two big metro areas, if decisions are made wisely, is going to hurt.

Heck, right now we've got people scratching their heads over the largest budget surplus apparently in state history. Perhaps that's come about partially as a result of good economic performance from both metro areas?

I'm going to leave a couple of the silly comments on this thread alone but you and mith are the most reasonable, so I wanted to respond to this.

Northwest Arkansas' emergence gave us two higher-income population centers where you see a large number of people with higher levels of education. I think having two such areas in the state, while it's bound to induce competition between them, will finally bring this state to a point where Arkansas politics will stop being dominated by people from towns smaller than 1000 whose only priority is saving their small town's underperforming school from being merged for the purpose of improving academic standards. With NWA and Central Arkansas growth I think we'll see Arkansas politics move into the 21st century, though NWA's conservatism has pushed the state from a Democratic one to a Republican one nearly by itself.

Nobody notices this but the chair of the budget committee is from Rogers and right now he's the most powerful Arkansas politician aside from Huck. Bisbee will probably support the UAMS campus in NWA and helped NWA get the $300 million to build the bypass on 412.

NWA's growth is job-dependent. People aren't moving from Minnesota and New Hampshire because they always wanted to live in Rogers, though most people really like it there when they move. Part of the growth no doubt is low-income Hispanics working for the chicken companies but most of it is high-income either by Wal-Mart or tied to it indirectly. WM's growth is already slowing and probably will continue to do so. Tyson's probably grown as much as it can. The area will bring in new industries but I think job growth from now on will largely be in the lagging service industry - law, banking, medicine, retail, etc. Infrastructure is behind, it's true, and it will cause problems but it's not as behind as you think it is. If you want to see terrible infrastructure, go to Conway (which has grown comparably to Rogers but was more poorly planned than NWA). A lot of this is unfortunately tied to city planning and can't be fixed - which is also true in LRs' suburbs and in LR itself where right of way was too narrow to expand roads that are too busy. NWA and LR have too many 2-lane roads where 4-lanes should be and essentially no 6-lanes.

As for Little Rock's crime, as someone said it's more of an image problem than an actual problem. The average white person is just as safe in LR as Fayetteville based on violent crime rates. The problem is black on black crime in limited neighborhoods. Few murders in the city occur when both the perpetrator and victime aren't gang members. The same is true in Dallas, where I have never felt anything but safe but supposedly has the highest crime rate of any city over 1 million. The phenomenon in LR is the same in every major or mid-major city, the inner city is becoming a haven for either the poor. the hip, or the wealthy with the middle class generally opting for new homes in the suburbs. NWA's multifocality protects it from this in a way, which is part of its allure to people moving there from larger cities. The city of LR won't grow much, as mith said, but Faulkner County (the state's 2nd fastest growing county), Saline, and Lonoke (all in the state's top 4 counties in growth) will continue to grow. Pulaski County itself probably won't grow much, either, but the MSA will continue to grow at moderate but significant rates. I can see Garland County being integrated into the MSA at some point as Saline Co becomes more developed. It's also a possiblity White County and Searcy could be integrated as development continues out the US 67 corridor.

Mith, I don't really see Ft Smith and NWA moving together because of the sparsity of the population between Alma and Fayetteville. If Wal-Mart and Tyson had been based in Fayetteville I think Greenland and West Fork would be full of housing developments and that might be more of a possibility. NWA's just not growing that way. A similar phenomemon is true of Pulaski and Jefferson County. Both are urban counties but LR is growing purely West and Southwest and nothing's filling in the empty gaps along I-530.

I think the one city assured of continued growth, regardless, is Fayetteville. Even if Wal-Mart and Tyson moved away Fayetteville would continue to grow. Hip, college towns everywhere just seem to follow this pattern - Athens, Chapel Hill, Boulder, Charlottesville, etc. A lot of Fayetteville's growth is from students that move there from Little Rock, Dallas, or rural Arkansas that just love the place and decide to stay. I love it, too.

One thing nobody mentioned is that LR's sphere of influence is so much larger. There are a million residents within a 50 mile radius of Little Rock (which would include Pine Bluff, Hot Springs, Searcy, etc). That's part of the strength of the retail market. If you look at Neilsen ratings LR is 57th with 531,000 households. The Ft Smith-Fayetteville market is 104th with 273,000 households despite incorporating both MSAs. Much of the state's rural population watches LR television, drives in for shopping, dining, and medical care and depends on it for concerts and entertainment. Because NWA is tucked in a corner and there are two major markets nearby in Tulsa and Springfielda nd a largely self-sufficient one in Ft Smith, NWA has a sizably decreased sphere of influence than MSA numbers might indicate. NWA really is isolated in a lot of the ways from the rest of the state, excepting the UA which takes students from all over the state and a lot of us travel to for games.

[CellarDoor135]

As for Little Rock's crime, as someone said it's more of an image problem than an actual problem. The average white person is just as safe in LR as Fayetteville based on violent crime rates. The problem is black on black crime in limited neighborhoods. Few murders in the city occur when both the perpetrator and victime aren't gang members.

Sorry but that could not be more wrong. Tell that to the 35 people murdered in Little Rock so far this year. If anyone has an ounce of doubt they should watch the HBO program on the gangs of Little Rock. It was a warlike documentary in '93. As far as petty crimes, let's see while living in West Little Rock, off of Cantrell two blocks away from the entrance to Chenal, we had a grill stolen our house broken into, windows busted, and threats to have our house shot at if we did not change our indoor lighting from red to someother color. Fayetteville is no Little Rock. I am white and no gang member, and regardless of who did this nobody is entirely safe in Little Rock. This has happened to alot of people I know in Little Rock (Atleast 1 from the list). I love Little Rock and what it has to offer. But in terms of crime, Little Rock is no Fayetteville.

Chech out the Sunday times from the UK or even Wikipedia knows Little Rocks crime rate is bad, the murder rate is the only news story from 2006 on there

Lets see I would say this is kind of a big deal!

[masons_dad1]

Little Rock is the 5th most crime-ridden city in the country. Little Rock makes Miami seem like a safe haven. That's according to the City, State and Federal governments that report crimes. What separates violent crimes in Little Rock from those in Northwest Arkansas is the crimes in Little Rock happen in the streets and in the neighborhoods, whereas in NWA they are made up of almost soley barroom dissagreements. Anyone who says that violent crimes in Little Rock are isolated to certain small neighborhoods is basically saying that there are literal "war zones" in Little Rock. The bad news is that in all those "gang related" crimes in Little Rock, most of the victims are just innocent bystanders being gunned down in the streets of what is by all accounts one of the most dangerous cities in the country.

The job growth and the population growth in Northwest Arkansas is dependent on Wal-Mart more than any other organization in NWA and it's foolish to say that growth is slowing, because it's just getting started. Not everyone who moves to NWA works for Wal-Mart, tens of thousands of them work for the thousands of Wal-Mart Vendors setting up shop in NWA. Most of that growth is being seen in Benton County, hence the population growth in Benton County is much greater than Washington County. Fayetteville is benefitting from Wal-Mart's growth also as will be witnessed with the construction of the new Proctor & Gamble highrise offices. The news for those outside of the industry is that Wal-Mart is inventing new and improved ways of insuring NWA's growth for the next millenium by steadily increasing the need for it's Vendors to keep expanding their operations here. With more Vendors will come more "shopping, dining, and medical care and depends on it for concerts and entertainment."

Oh my, Northwest Arkansas isn't doing bad at all for an isolated safe haven far from war-torn "regions" of the country.

[KJW]

I'm going to leave a couple of the silly comments on this thread alone but you and mith are the most reasonable, so I wanted to respond to this.

Northwest Arkansas' emergence gave us two higher-income population centers where you see a large number of people with higher levels of education. I think having two such areas in the state, while it's bound to induce competition between them, will finally bring this state to a point where Arkansas politics will stop being dominated by people from towns smaller than 1000 whose only priority is saving their small town's underperforming school from being merged for the purpose of improving academic standards. With NWA and Central Arkansas growth I think we'll see Arkansas politics move into the 21st century, though NWA's conservatism has pushed the state from a Democratic one to a Republican one nearly by itself.

Nobody notices this but the chair of the budget committee is from Rogers and right now he's the most powerful Arkansas politician aside from Huck. Bisbee will probably support the UAMS campus in NWA and helped NWA get the $300 million to build the bypass on 412.

NWA's growth is job-dependent. People aren't moving from Minnesota and New Hampshire because they always wanted to live in Rogers, though most people really like it there when they move. Part of the growth no doubt is low-income Hispanics working for the chicken companies but most of it is high-income either by Wal-Mart or tied to it indirectly. WM's growth is already slowing and probably will continue to do so. Tyson's probably grown as much as it can. The area will bring in new industries but I think job growth from now on will largely be in the lagging service industry - law, banking, medicine, retail, etc. Infrastructure is behind, it's true, and it will cause problems but it's not as behind as you think it is. If you want to see terrible infrastructure, go to Conway (which has grown comparably to Rogers but was more poorly planned than NWA). A lot of this is unfortunately tied to city planning and can't be fixed - which is also true in LRs' suburbs and in LR itself where right of way was too narrow to expand roads that are too busy. NWA and LR have too many 2-lane roads where 4-lanes should be and essentially no 6-lanes.

As for Little Rock's crime, as someone said it's more of an image problem than an actual problem. The average white person is just as safe in LR as Fayetteville based on violent crime rates. The problem is black on black crime in limited neighborhoods. Few murders in the city occur when both the perpetrator and victime aren't gang members. The same is true in Dallas, where I have never felt anything but safe but supposedly has the highest crime rate of any city over 1 million. The phenomenon in LR is the same in every major or mid-major city, the inner city is becoming a haven for either the poor. the hip, or the wealthy with the middle class generally opting for new homes in the suburbs. NWA's multifocality protects it from this in a way, which is part of its allure to people moving there from larger cities. The city of LR won't grow much, as mith said, but Faulkner County (the state's 2nd fastest growing county), Saline, and Lonoke (all in the state's top 4 counties in growth) will continue to grow. Pulaski County itself probably won't grow much, either, but the MSA will continue to grow at moderate but significant rates. I can see Garland County being integrated into the MSA at some point as Saline Co becomes more developed. It's also a possiblity White County and Searcy could be integrated as development continues out the US 67 corridor.

Mith, I don't really see Ft Smith and NWA moving together because of the sparsity of the population between Alma and Fayetteville. If Wal-Mart and Tyson had been based in Fayetteville I think Greenland and West Fork would be full of housing developments and that might be more of a possibility. NWA's just not growing that way. A similar phenomemon is true of Pulaski and Jefferson County. Both are urban counties but LR is growing purely West and Southwest and nothing's filling in the empty gaps along I-530.

I think the one city assured of continued growth, regardless, is Fayetteville. Even if Wal-Mart and Tyson moved away Fayetteville would continue to grow. Hip, college towns everywhere just seem to follow this pattern - Athens, Chapel Hill, Boulder, Charlottesville, etc. A lot of Fayetteville's growth is from students that move there from Little Rock, Dallas, or rural Arkansas that just love the place and decide to stay. I love it, too.

One thing nobody mentioned is that LR's sphere of influence is so much larger. There are a million residents within a 50 mile radius of Little Rock (which would include Pine Bluff, Hot Springs, Searcy, etc). That's part of the strength of the retail market. If you look at Neilsen ratings LR is 57th with 531,000 households. The Ft Smith-Fayetteville market is 104th with 273,000 households despite incorporating both MSAs. Much of the state's rural population watches LR television, drives in for shopping, dining, and medical care and depends on it for concerts and entertainment. Because NWA is tucked in a corner and there are two major markets nearby in Tulsa and Springfielda nd a largely self-sufficient one in Ft Smith, NWA has a sizably decreased sphere of influence than MSA numbers might indicate. NWA really is isolated in a lot of the ways from the rest of the state, excepting the UA which takes students from all over the state and a lot of us travel to for games.

Well said, Aporkalypse.

The Little Rock / Pine Bluff DMA (and the Little Rock Major trading area as defined by Rand McNally Area #40 (surprise, surprise) on this map in .pdf format) is pretty much the same, though with the LR MTA you add all or most of the Fort Smith/Fayetteville, Jonesboro DMAs and the far southern part of the Springfield, MO DMA).

This makes me wonder, though.

McDonald County, MO (currently in the Kansas City Major Trading Area (MTA) on the Rand McNally map, and the Joplin - Pittsburg, KS Designated (television) Market Area (DMA) on the Nielsen one) is now part of the NWA metro area officially. That means that McD would have to be in the Bentonville/Fayetteville BTA (basic trading area). And since a BTA is never bisected within an MTA, that means that McDonald must now be part of the Little Rock MTA. This may be the first time said MTA ever has had a Missouri county within its borders. (And MTA/DMA/BTA borders obviously can change, but I doubt McDonald falls out of the NWA orbit for a long time if ever at this point.)

As stated before, NWA is at the confluence, currently, of four DMAs (Joplin, Springfield, Tulsa and NWA) and four MTAs (Little Rock, Tulsa, St. Louis, Kansas City). Has NWA reached its peak, or will there be other changes, and other counties drawn away from different DMAs and MTAs? (Hate using this alphabet soup of abbreviations but my fingers are lazy today.) I don't think we know the answer yet.

Here's one other thing about MTAs, and the Little Rock / NWA relationship.

The number #13 MTA on the second map is Tampa-Orlando. The Memphis MTA is now called (or last I heard was called) the Memphis/Jackson (MS) MTA. El Paso, TX is the El Paso / Albuquerque MTA. Cities can share MTAs as easily as NWA/FSM (and other cities) share their DMA.

If growth keeps up (and it's probably true now) I'm guessing this area is just about to become the Little Rock/Bentonville/Fayetteville MTA.

Now, which of the last two cities gets its name in second place?

[Aporkalypse]

Sorry but that could not be more wrong. Tell that to the 35 people murdered in Little Rock so far this year. If anyone has an ounce of doubt they should watch the HBO program on the gangs of Little Rock. It was a warlike documentary in '93. As far as petty crimes, let's see while living in West Little Rock, off of Cantrell two blocks away from the entrance to Chenal, we had a grill stolen our house broken into, windows busted, and threats to have our house shot at if we did not change our indoor lighting from red to someother color. Fayetteville is no Little Rock. I am white and no gang member, and regardless of who did this nobody is entirely safe in Little Rock. This has happened to alot of people I know in Little Rock (Atleast 1 from the list). I love Little Rock and what it has to offer. But in terms of crime, Little Rock is no Fayetteville.

Chech out the Sunday times from the UK or even Wikipedia knows Little Rocks crime rate is bad, the murder rate is the only news story from 2006 on there

Lets see I would say this is kind of a big deal!

I was speaking specifically about the murder rate and violent crime. How many of the murders this year were white? How many lived in West LR? In the year the HBO special occurred only 2 murders occurred west of Mississippi Ave, where more than 115,000 residents lived. That year there were 5 murders in Fayetteville, though some years there are none there at all. I was trying to illustrate that point. I'm sure things have shifted a bit West in LR since then, though, as the city moved. 95% of murders in LR are minority on minority and this is a huge problem the community's been dealing with for years. Finding a way to keep kids in these neighborhoods out of gangs is a big problem. A lot of the gang troublemakers from the early 1990s are recently paroled and are causing the problems going on now. This is the same trend going on in cities across the country where crime rates are going upward in similar fashion right now after going down for a decade.

In terms of burglary, etc I have no doubt LR has a much higher rate though in the surrounding counties it's probably more comparable. You have to be careful in Central LR, particularly.

Again, there is plenty of crime and it's no doubt worse than NWA. I was just stating that as happens in Dallas, I think the statistics can be very misleading in terms of risk of the crime happening to you. Violent crime is remarkablu unlikely if you're not a minority in one of a handful of neighborhoods. I had my car broken into once in LR, though I did live there 30 years and I guess that's par for the course.

I can also say for those wishing NWA is more urban and less suburban, there's a price you pay for density and diversity. NWA is still largely spared most of the problems that arise in practically every urban area in the region.

Also, never trust HBO documentaries any more than you do 20/20 or similar news programs. First of all, it was intended to make the point that gangs from LA were infiltrating middle America, which was kind of shocking at the time. A few years later, there were crips and bloods in every Delta town of 2000 as that culture permeated America. That documentary was made for shock value. I saw an HBO documentary on plastic surgery last month that was shockingly inaccurate and dubious. These are never true documentaries, they are designed for shock and ratings impact. There was an awful ABC documentary on VA Hospitals that was disgustingly misleading.

[Mith242]

I should have known this topic might get a few people worked up. Although I admit not quite in the ways I thought. Overall I do agree a lot with Aporkalypse's accessment. Although I think he attributed being said by me but wasn't. Anyway I think there is a bit of a feeling that NWA is being held back by other parts of the state by people up here. But I think it would be better for NWA if this feeling wasn't focused on and simply move on and try to work with say central Arkansas more. If NWA teamed up with central Arkansas on some issues I think it would push Arkansas into a new direction like Aporkalypse said. Anyway I did hope to get some people to respond here, hope I didn't push anyone's 'buttons' by mentioning this. But I do think it's probably something that should be brought up and talked about.

[vbfl85]

How many murders occured in Little Rock last year? I'm pretty sure it was 7x in 93.

[Aporkalypse]

How many murders occured in Little Rock last year? I'm pretty sure it was 7x in 93.

41

There was a huge rash of gang-related killings in the first 3 months of 2006 but it has slowed back to a more normal rate since. The summer is usually when crime peaks everywhere and this hasn't been the case. I suspect there won't be another 30+ the remainder of the year to eclipse the record, but it's still kind of alarming.

I wonder if this will push Mark Stodola, the prosecuting attorney for the city of LR in the mid to late 1990s, into office. He's running on a strong anti-crime platform.

[itk]

Bisbee will probably support the UAMS campus in NWA and helped NWA get the $300 million to build the bypass on 412.

Don't count on that. The funding sructure for transportation improvements is different and seperate from other sources (especially more so in Arkansas; I've been told there is some history to that that goes way back when).

If you want to see terrible infrastructure, go to Conway (which has grown comparably to Rogers but was more poorly planned than NWA). A lot of this is unfortunately tied to city planning and can't be fixed - which is also true in LRs' suburbs and in LR itself where right of way was too narrow to expand roads that are too busy. NWA and LR have too many 2-lane roads where 4-lanes should be and essentially no 6-lanes.

Yeah, Conway has it bad for such a small city. I can't stand driving through Conway. Poor-planning I think does have much to do with it.

One thing nobody mentioned is that LR's sphere of influence is so much larger. There are a million residents within a 50 mile radius of Little Rock (which would include Pine Bluff, Hot Springs, Searcy, etc). That's part of the strength of the retail market. If you look at Neilsen ratings LR is 57th with 531,000 households. The Ft Smith-Fayetteville market is 104th with 273,000 households despite incorporating both MSAs. Much of the state's rural population watches LR television, drives in for shopping, dining, and medical care and depends on it for concerts and entertainment. Because NWA is tucked in a corner and there are two major markets nearby in Tulsa and Springfielda nd a largely self-sufficient one in Ft Smith, NWA has a sizably decreased sphere of influence than MSA numbers might indicate. NWA really is isolated in a lot of the ways from the rest of the state, excepting the UA which takes students from all over the state and a lot of us travel to for games.

You know I think that is a very interesting point-- LR influence is much larger than NWA's in these regards. Though I think in a town like Joplin, which is about equidistant to NWA as it is to Springfield, it seems people drive down to NWA more and more for things such as shopping instead of or in addition to Springfield (just based on my own anecdotal evidence). I would think that in coming years this may increase, in addition to the Fort Smith area. But other than those two smaller metros, NWA won't influence like LR for the foreseeable future I imagine. Interesting.

[Mith242]

I do agree that NWA isn't likely to have the influence like Little Rock does. Little Rock has been THE city in Arkansas for over a century. It's also had a long time to establish it's influence as well. Even if NWA could not only keep up it's current growth but increase it. It's just not going to be able to establish that kind of influence. Things like that take time. I agree with itk, it's main extension of influence is likely to come at Ft Smith and Joplin's expense. I suppose there are chances that if something unique was developed in NWA that perhaps you could draw some people from larger metros like Tulsa. But I think it wouldn't be too likely that many people from areas like Tulsa would come to NWA. Not unless they had some other reason for coming.

[KJW]

I do agree that NWA isn't likely to have the influence like Little Rock does. Little Rock has been THE city in Arkansas for over a century. It's also had a long time to establish it's influence as well. Even if NWA could not only keep up it's current growth but increase it. It's just not going to be able to establish that kind of influence. Things like that take time. I agree with itk, it's main extension of influence is likely to come at Ft Smith and Joplin's expense. I suppose there are chances that if something unique was developed in NWA that perhaps you could draw some people from larger metros like Tulsa. But I think it wouldn't be too likely that many people from areas like Tulsa would come to NWA. Not unless they had some other reason for coming.

I think NWA should (and perhaps it is) become the next...Dubai.

(Ducks head, looks around nervously for mcheiss...)

[mcheiss]

I think NWA should (and perhaps it is) become the next...Dubai.

(Ducks head, looks around nervously for mcheiss...)

[Mith242]

Well don't think I see that happening. If any American city becomes the next Dubai it will be Las Vegas.

[KJW]

Well don't think I see that happening. If any American city becomes the next Dubai it will be Las Vegas.

Indeed.

On a more serious note, I would think the next "beachheads" for NWA to test its influence in will be Delaware County, OK (home of Siloam Springs' western suburbs and Grove, OK - with lots of disposible income, in the Tulsa DMA/MTA) and Carroll County, AR (home of Eureka Springs - in the Springfield DMA/Little Rock MTA).

They've been doing that DMA/MTA thing for awhile, but Carroll and Delaware apparently are sending a lot of people into NWA to work and consume.

[North Pulaski Player]

Tell that to the 35 people murdered in Little Rock so far this year.

Since your post 8 hours ago, there have been 2 more murders in LR... number is at 37 now

[Aporkalypse]

Indeed.

On a more serious note, I would think the next "beachheads" for NWA to test its influence in will be Delaware County, OK (home of Siloam Springs' western suburbs and Grove, OK - with lots of disposible income, in the Tulsa DMA/MTA) and Carroll County, AR (home of Eureka Springs - in the Springfield DMA/Little Rock MTA).

They've been doing that DMA/MTA thing for awhile, but Carroll and Delaware apparently are sending a lot of people into NWA to work and consume.

Siloam Springs has suburbs? Really?

[jdevers]

Siloam Springs has suburbs? Really?

Not only that, but Grove has lots of disposable income? According to the 2000 census there were a few more than 5,000 people there and per capita income was $18,351. Wikipedia-Grove, OK

I think "little town outside of a medium size town" would be far more fitting than suburb...after all, I don't know if Siloam even really qualifies as suburban...and it definitely isn't urban.

That having been said, I agree with the sentiment. NWA will soon encompass both Carroll and Delaware counties.

[masons_dad1]

Aside from the very illustrative statistics I've posted that Little Rock is the 5th largest metro with the highest crime and that violent crimes in Little Rock are worse than in Miami (rumoured to have the highest violent crime rate), how does the state of Arkansas justify allowing such rampant rapes and murders in the capitol of a state when the state's population is nearly the same as the Miami-Dade Metro? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I'm embarrassed that I live in a metro that is as remotely associated with such a dangerous and crime-ridden city as our own state capitol.

There's no excuse that can hide the fact that murders in Little Rock have always been very high and are consistently getting worse. Look at these facts if you can bare it...

Murders in Little Rock:

1999/30 2000/31 2001/34 2002/41 2003/44

I don't have figures for 2004-2005, but it looks like more escalating murders in Little Rock with 2006 already reaching 47. I can understand why noone wants to face the hard facts. So go on and continue the discussion about how the rest of Arkansas is a drain on Northwest Arkansas' economy, but please at least look into the facts before making fantastical claims that are untrue.