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Charlotteman

Speculation about a spec tower

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It's common knowledge that Charlotte has the tightest vacancy CBD in the country.

Lots of speculation these days about a spec tower to fill the requirements of new businesses wanting to move into the Uptown office market.

A spec tower hasn't been built in a while. If one is built in the near future what do you think it might be like---the height, style, location, square footage etc

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Guess I'll be the first to ask. What is a spec tower??

A spec tower is a tower built before there is any anchor tenant under contract. The builder is going out on a limb in thinking that the market will need more office space when the tower is finished, so it's a safe investment to build without having a tenant under contract before a shovel hits the dirt.

Dallas and Denver had tons of spec office space go up in the '80s, and both skylines have remained relatively unchanged since that time because they got so overbuilt. Right now it appears Atlanta is getting similarly oversaturated, due to a lot of speculative construction.

Charlotteman, to answer your question, I think spec towers in Charlotte will never top 500'. You'll see some 300-400' spec highrises over time but nothing larger than that. They'll be scattered around the CBD and will likely have 'charlotte' architecture.

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I agree with nostyle. I doubt we'll see anything too agressive from the spec market. I'm looking to Duke, BOA and possibly BB&T to build the next tower that will stand out from the rest. I'm still holding onto the hope that Wachovia was holding out and put the picture that Norm caught out as a teaser but not a final draft. Hoping it will at least match BOA Corp.

My prediction is a 450' spec tower in the boxy-blue/black/green glass style. I would imagine the tower resembling Three Wachovia in design having a minor decoration on top. Spires that make the tower "taller" would not surprise me. I've always thought spires made specifically for height are horrible ideas unless they are thick and well lit, closer to the appearance of a crown like the Empire State or Chrystler buildings have.

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^Yep. Hesta Properties, a Swiss company, spent $100 million to build Carillon in 1991 and never recouped their investment. They, in fact, sold it for nearly $30 million less than it cost to build in 1996. The building took nearly two years to lease up (and only with major tenant upfit allowances and cheap rental rates was it able to do that).

To a lesser degree, 233 S Tryon was spec. Even though it was a rehab of the old original NCNB building, it sat vacant (with the exception of Cole Jenest and Stone and McCormick and Schmick's) for a very long time.

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The nest "spec" tower will have a major residential component to help underwrite the risk involved.....in fact about 90%-95% of all spec office towers in this country will have condos or apartments included.

That said, the next "spec" tower will be 300 S. Tryon St at which I'm estimating at 41 stories and 545'.

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The nest "spec" tower will have a major residential component to help underwrite the risk involved.....in fact about 90%-95% of all spec office towers in this country will have condos or apartments included.

That said, the next "spec" tower will be 300 S. Tryon St at which I'm estimating at 41 stories and 545'.

wtf, are you holding any inside info? also, where exactly is 300 s. tryon located?

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..... also, where exactly is 300 s. tryon located?

Maybe it is located at 300 S. Tryon. :silly:

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I thought 300 Tryon was where a stair-step condo development was to go, mentioned a while back (?)

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Maybe it is located at 300 S. Tryon. :silly:

lol :thumbsup:

to be a little more specific, its on the next block south of 230 S.Tryon, and accross Tryon from the Wachovia main building that was just redone.

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lol :thumbsup:

to be a little more specific, its on the next block south of 230 S.Tryon, and accross Tryon from the Wachovia main building that was just redone.

If that is the block right beside 230 South Tryon I've seen renderings and plans the Spectrum Properties offices for a 45 story (i think, but at least that high) office/residential building. This based on the land swap coming through for the minor league baseball and the uptown park...they seemed awfully confident that this is nearing announcement time...

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If that is the block right beside 230 South Tryon I've seen renderings and plans the Spectrum Properties offices for a 45 story (i think, but at least that high) office/residential building. This based on the land swap coming through for the minor league baseball and the uptown park...they seemed awfully confident that this is nearing announcement time...

spectrum (i always thought conerstone owned this) has just been sitting on this prime parcel for so long.... i, too have heard that they plan to develop contingent to the baseball/park landswap. but, what does spectrum get out of that deal other than a reduced park @ their backdoor. i mean what about the wachovia/cultural development going on... i would think that would spur these people into action.

i hope more than anything that, that flipping triple A ballpark fails. give us our original 9 acre park, focus a MINOR league stadium in dilworth, and if spectrum continues to sit b/c of that... ???

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Maybe it is located at 300 S. Tryon. :silly:

:rofl:

A2

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To me it seems puzzling that the Carillon and Interstate Tower have struggled to sign tenants while Uptown's vacancy rate has constricted to impossible levels.

Aren't they both Class A office space?

Perhaps all of Uptown is full except those two towers (?) A new spec tower might have similar difficulties, even in a market so tight.

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The Carillon building is almost full. The Interstate tower does have problems leasing....part of the problem there is very few parking spaces dedicated to the building (.78/1000 sq. ft.) and that the vacant space is awkwardly arrananged with relatively little contiguous.

The old proposal for 300 S. Tryon was supposed to have about 2 parking spaces per 1,000 sq. ft., so I would assume this current proposal would have a similar ratio, which would be much more appealing.

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Moody's rating service quarterly update on all U.S. MSAs just came out. Charlotteman, you are correct - Charlotte's CBD office market is really tight, scoring an almost-unheard of 95 out of 100, now the best in the U.S. for the first time. 2nd place is Forth Worth, TX with a score of 88.

Yet, the Charlotte suburban office had one of the worst scores (33), a marked detrioration from last quarter's score of 50. Charlotte and Phoenix are the only 2 cities to have very strong CBD's and very weak suburban markets. I guess this underscores both the need for more office space Uptown and stricter permitting for suburban projects. The fact that companies can always dangle the "move to cheaper suburban locations" carrot in front of landlords really curtails more potential Uptown projects that would be built if this leverage option didn't exist.

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The Carillon building is almost full. The Interstate tower does have problems leasing....part of the problem there is very few parking spaces dedicated to the building (.78/1000 sq. ft.) and that the vacant space is awkwardly arrananged with relatively little contiguous.

The old proposal for 300 S. Tryon was supposed to have about 2 parking spaces per 1,000 sq. ft., so I would assume this current proposal would have a similar ratio, which would be much more appealing.

A good reason for the leasing problem might be because of inflated rent rates. I wonder how much the average rents/leases are anyway in Uptown?

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I think lease rates uptown are around $25 sq. ft. Depending on what you want, maybe as low as $21.

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To me it seems puzzling that the Carillon and Interstate Tower have struggled to sign tenants while Uptown's vacancy rate has constricted to impossible levels.

Aren't they both Class A office space?

Perhaps all of Uptown is full except those two towers (?) A new spec tower might have similar difficulties, even in a market so tight.

According to Charlotte Business Journal today, SAS is moving its Charlotte office to the Interstate Tower.

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But the article says SAS was already in an uptown location before the move. 525 North Tryon - The Odell building, I believe? I wonder if they're moving into a larger space...

So, all in all, this isn't really that big of a win for uptown, just a reshuffling.

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