Suburbs vs. City

[Snowguy716]

I think Minnesotans' love affair with all things nature was laid out in front of me yesterday... and our love affair with not updating freeways as well...

I drove my brother to the airport in Minneapolis, from Bemidji, a 4 hour drive. Well, it was my mistake to be leaving Minneapolis to the north at 4:30pm on a Friday in the summer... I'll never do it again.

It was stop and go or at least under 40 from the airport through the Lowry tunnel downtown and then again on 694 from about Hwy 100 to Albertville, an exurb about, oh, 25 miles northwest of Minneapolis. Once 494 and 94/694 merged, it was worse. It was stop and go.. and more stop than go. I was literally stopped for a good minute and hten you'd creep forward 20 feet and then do it over again.

There was no accident, no stalled cars.. nothing.. just EVERYBODY leaving hte city for the weekend. Traffic was heavy enough that you couldn't travel the speed limit until the Hasty/Silver Creek exit, about 45 miles northwest of Minneapolis... then it was off the freeway onto Minnesota HWY 24 at Clear Water.. the common connection between I-94 and U.S 10 that takes you to the lakes country.. Hwy 24 was a parking lot from Clear Water to Clear Lake, about a 5 mile stretch. The ramp getting onto Hwy 24 from I-94 was backed up a good half mile onto the freeway just to get onto this road...

Then Highway 10 was EXTREMELY congested.. rarely exceeding 55mph given the 65mph speed limit.. and being held back by stoplights.

Then it was State 371 which was better but still very congested.. finally we could reach cruising speeds of 70-75mph...

Once past Brainerd (where all the wimpy outdoorsy types go), it was free sailing.. except it's 2 lane and it was raining and it was getting dark and there's always that chance that a deer will bolt out into the road right in front of you to the dismay of the deer and your car.

The traffic is out of control.. people flooding north for the weekends is creating unprecidented traffic on roads that are empty in the off season. It's SO nice to drive down Hwy 10 in March... there's nobody on the road.

A coalition of citizens in my city called Bemidji Leads! has called for a 4 lane hwy all the way to the city by a certain date.. something unreachable like 2010 or something. I think we need to rebuild the tracks that Burlington Northern and the Soo Line so unceremoniously ripped up in the past 20 years.. and get people on the train! Trains don't deal with congestion... and they can go 80mph on regular tracks... and could easily reach speeds of 110mph with conventional tracks and high-tech trains.

Ugh... Europe spoiled me.

By the way, it should be known.. tourism in northenr Minnesota is huge. You'd be surprised how many out-of-staters come here.. you mostly see North Dakota.. but you also see a lot of California, Kansas, Iowa, Texas, and Illinois...

This summer in Bemidji I've seen several Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, Michigan (of course Wisconsin, our twin to the east), New York, Florida, Arizona.. even Delaware! We also have a lot of Alaskans here and Washingtonians.. I often see Oregon.. South Dakota.. occasionally Wyoming, plenty of Colorado.. I even saw a van from Switzerland with Swiss plates.. that was a first... they were touring the whole U.S and were stopped at one of hte local grocery stores (the locally owned and operated 'high class' one at that!)

Our town swells to around 70,000 on big vacation weekends (Memorial and Labor day weekends), and is consistently around 50,000 during peak summer months with around 100,000 in the area for the 4th. This is compared to a year round population of 30,000... Towns like Park Rapids, with an area population of 10,000 can have 3 times that number during the summer.

It's because people love what I've been blessed to grow up with: Peace and quiet, undisturbed woods and lakes.. good fishing, hiking, biking, XC skiing opportunities...

But this is sounding like an advertisement.. the suburbs are nice too.. in their fake, shell of a community sort of way.

[jfmecca]

I'm out in the burbs, but if I could move my house, yard and trees into a nice city block within walking distance of... anything... , I'd gladly do it.

[bmorescottamanda]

The only reason I hate living in the city is the crime. Cities need to keep trying to gett there crime down.

[JDC]

Suburbs, without a doubt. Why?

Typically cheaper housing

Less hustle and bustle, and noise

Situated near enough to everything to still be convenient

May not have city taxes which are typically higher

Better on the crime front

Somewhat more freedom

Less crowded and cramped

This is my translation of the above:

Homogenous, mass-produced housing

People don't know their neighbor's names

Only a 15 minute drive to the Super Wal-Mart

Underfunded emergency response system

Even criminals don't want to live there!

...if you don't mind driving everywhere

Not in my backyard!

[JDC]

I grew up in the suburbs and had to get a ride everywhere I wanted to go with the exception of a few friends houses close by. None of the streets had sidewalks, so riding my bike in the street was forbidden until I was about 13.

After going to college in a very walkable town, and now living downtown in a city of over 200,000, I don't ever plan on going back to being a slave to the steering wheel. Sure, walkable neighborhoods in some suburbs are nice, and I sometimes wish my dog and I had a yard to play in (instead we walk two blocks to the park), but I wouldn't trade in this kind of location for a big house on an acre of land if it meant getting in a car everyday.

[runawayjim]

This is my translation of the above:

Homogenous, mass-produced housing

People don't know their neighbor's names

Only a 15 minute drive to the Super Wal-Mart

Underfunded emergency response system

Even criminals don't want to live there!

...if you don't mind driving everywhere

Not in my backyard!

I grew up in the suburbs and had to get a ride everywhere I wanted to go with the exception of a few friends houses close by. None of the streets had sidewalks, so riding my bike in the street was forbidden until I was about 13.

After going to college in a very walkable town, and now living downtown in a city of over 200,000, I don't ever plan on going back to being a slave to the steering wheel. Sure, walkable neighborhoods in some suburbs are nice, and I sometimes wish my dog and I had a yard to play in (instead we walk two blocks to the park), but I wouldn't trade in this kind of location for a big house on an acre of land if it meant getting in a car everyday.

i grew up in the suburbs, knew all my neighbors, had friends across town who i visited on my bike and had about an acre of land (1/4 of which was woods). my neighbor's houses were under 100 yards from mine (if not under 50 yards).

yes, many of the houses looked the same, but guess what? a line of triple deckers that look the same is the same thing... same thing with a line of colonials or victorians on the same street.

the emergency response in my town was mostly volunteer (at least for the fire dept), but had great response times.

many suburbs, mine included, have the benefits of both suburban life and walkable communities. you don't need over 100k or 200k to have a great walkable area. you lack in some respects, usually the cultural aspects, but when you live 10 min from a city or on a bus or light rail line, you can easily get there to enjoy it all without "being a slave to the steering wheel". also, i think you are conveniently forgetting that some people are really enthusastic about their cars. i happen to love mine and will never get rid of it even if i do someday move to the downtown area. i need my car and i enjoy driving my car. i'll occasionally go for a drive just for fun with no destination.

your response to the guy who happens to like teh suburbs was quite smug. the suburbs also generally have a better school system, less crime (your comeback for that was quite weak, because criminals do live there), and can be quite convenient and very urban in ways. the schools and lack of crime alone are reason enough for most families to want to live there. i would never buy a home to start my family in a city if i didn't have some sort of a yard for my children to play in relatively unsupervised and for my dog to run around in. the neighborhood i live in right now is perfect for that, but still in the city limits and on 2 major bus lines. it's suburban living in the city. suburban living does not mean driving a car.

[JDC]

Evidently our experiences in the 'burbs were quite different.

And while my response was smug, sure, it's not meant to be a "which one is better" - it's just my personal translation, and was said half-jokingly. I understand the quality of life benefits of the suburbs, but the convenience of city living, for me anyway, outweigh the peace and quiet, the better school systems, and lower crime rates.

You're lucky to have such great amenities along with a suburban lifestyle. The suburban areas near where I live now are largely covered with big-box chains, fast food joints, multi-lane roads and cul-de-sac communities with names like "Fox Run Creek Manor" and "Brier Cliff Meadows."

[FromCityToRural]

I suppose that you could interpret that stuff that way...but evidently city living holds as little appeal for myself as suburbs do for you. I just can't be comfortable in a 500sf studio with neighbors on the other side of the wall and every aspect of everything regulated, and nearly everything taxed. Out here in the country where I live it's the simple freedoms that you don't get in the city that make it worth it to me. For instance, I don't have to go to the city park for a walk...we live in our own 8 acre park. Having said that, it can be a bit isolated here, and I suppose I see the suburbs as a happy medium between the two. As for culture...I grew up in an older suburban-type setting where white folks like me were the minority. Most of our neighbors were Asians and Mexicans, so I got plenty of outside culture...and if it's high culture you wanted, you could head up to San Francisco or just down to San Jose to get it. So, to each their own...

And I plan on restoring classic cars, tuning muscle cars, and building hot rods for a living. Cars are what I love, and any excuse for me to go out driving is a good one As corny as it sounds, I find peace behind the wheel and do my best thinking there. My old '68 Mustang pretty much saved my sanity once by giving me something to focus on and take pride in. So you could say I'm a car guy. Maybe bordering on "car-obsessed guy".

[Jerseyman4]

You can be within walking distance of things in some suburbs. Suburbs need not be suburban in nature.

This is true. Some suburbs in NJ have downtown areas where people work, shop and play. Its not unusual for people to not own cars and just ride a bike, take a bus or a cab.

Man the suburbs are getting creamed! Just one vote?

[ZachariahDaMan]

All 18 years of my life I have lived in the suburbs. As people from the Detroit forum know I have never been to the city. That's right..never in my life have I been to Detroit. It's because of my parents typical suburban views of Detroit. "No going to Detroit, too much crime, murders there". Little do they know just how safe downtown Detroit is. It's weird, looking at my flickr you can see I have been to many many towns in southeast Michigan. I was suppose to have already gone to Detroit this summer, someone was suppose to give me a tour but he had to cancel on me.

Even though I have been in the 'burbs all my life I'd still choose to live in the city. But if there was a historic suburb with a nice downtown then it'd be tempting.

[bmorescottamanda]

All 18 years of my life I have lived in the suburbs. As people from the Detroit forum know I have never been to the city. That's right..never in my life have I been to Detroit. It's because of my parents typical suburban views of Detroit. "No going to Detroit, too much crime, murders there". Little do they know just how safe downtown Detroit is. It's weird, looking at my flickr you can see I have been to many many towns in southeast Michigan. I was suppose to have already gone to Detroit this summer, someone was suppose to give me a tour but he had to cancel on me.

Even though I have been in the 'burbs all my life I'd still choose to live in the city. But if there was a historic suburb with a nice downtown then it'd be tempting.

That's crazy you have never been to a big city before.

[Noneck_08]

We recently moved out into a suburban neighborhood. It's okay but I miss my old place. We lived in a small town...but near the center. There were 2 gas stations within 3 blocks from me. The library, KFC and a BBQ stand. The downtown area was a short 5 min walk away. Crime was increasing in our neighborhood which is one of the reasons we moved out. Seems like it was just turning into ghetto.

[Jerseyman4]

^Is some of Lexington getting that bad? All of the town seemed safe and tranquill.

[bmorescottamanda]

I lived in Baltimore county MD and Montgomery county MD(DC suburb) and two years ago I moved to Baltimore City and now I would never move back to a suburb. I love city life.

[Cadeho]

Man the suburbs are getting creamed! Just one vote?

Ooh 4 votes! Is it over folks? Can they still make it?!

[Pillsbury]

I live in a streetcar suburb, I'd guess you'd call it. The neigbhorhood itself is about 140 years old and it's about 10 minutes from downtown. Beautiful old houses, tree-lined streets, and wide sidewalks. I walk to church, my pharmacy, my old college, art galleries, bars, and the neigbhorhood throws a lot of street parties that are fun. That's really what I prefer. Does that count as the city?

[Recchia]

I live in a streetcar suburb, I'd guess you'd call it. The neigbhorhood itself is about 140 years old and it's about 10 minutes from downtown. Beautiful old houses, tree-lined streets, and wide sidewalks. I walk to church, my pharmacy, my old college, art galleries, bars, and the neigbhorhood throws a lot of street parties that are fun. That's really what I prefer. Does that count as the city?

That counts as "urban living" in my opinion. I'm thinking this thread should be named "suburban vs. urban living", since there are many suburbs that are urban and many cities that are suburban.

[Pillsbury]

^ Thanks. I just wanted to know how I should vote and if I could make fun of people in the suburbs!

[tamias6]

As much as I'd like to live on 100 wooded acres of land with my house smack dab in the middle of it, when it comes to reality, the city would have to be my choice because of proximity to job, services, and amenities. Also rising energy costs are beginning to be a dictator as to where I can and can't live.

[nowensone]

Normally I'd vote city, in a high rise or brownstone, without second thought, thats where I've lived at times and I loved it. But that changed when we bought a house in suburbia last year (Adam's Farm, GSO, NC) as we have 3 kids now. Yes yes, I know, that's not very principled, but my subdivision, cul-de-sacs and all, does have some of the features of a better designed neighborhood, namely the playgrounds and fields and very extensive walking/jogging trails that everyone, believe it or not, uses. And it is because they were actually designed well - they meander through nearly every sub-neighborhood, and ring a lake, travel under the main roads so as not to disrupt flow, and connect to the afore mentioned playgrounds, fields, day care center, tennis courts, pool, etc. I really do not need a car except to leave the nbh and can take my kids/dog on a walk or wagon ride with no fear of anyone's safety from cars. That and the neighborhoods connect better than most to other transportation routes despite the occasional cul-de-sac, provided you don't get lost...

[kickflipjr]

I would prefer to live in a small city in the 100,000 to 300,000 range. Nothing too huge. This would give the benifits of living in the city, but it would be easier to have acess to the country that in some mega cities.

[cityboi]

definately the city!

[Matthew/E36]

I am not sure what urban vs suburban means to everyone, so maybe I should just say I live about 20 minutes outside St. Louis. It is not in the city limits. I consider it the county and therefore "suburban".

But it is tough to judge places. As someone assumed that people in the suburbs people "wake up to lawnmowers every weekend". That has never happened to me! But then again, I get up at 7 or 8 on the weekends. If I am woken up from my sleep, it is in the middle of the night by the cops who frequently visit our block. So I guess I think it is not best to judge by first classifying them, then using the classification for judgements.

So where I live on the other hand, I can walk to more than a handful of restaurants, movies, grocery store, shops, etc. But that is why I liked the location. I am also between 8 and 12 minutes from the office...yes between 8 and 12, I time it! I am very happy where I live.

To echo some others comments, if I were to never want or plan on having a family with kids, I would have likely purchased something in the city, but the houses people described above in the city that are old and large are way out of my price range. They may be "bargains", but I can't afford them.

[dgreco]

can't beat the peace of a suburb.

[runawayjim]

can't beat the peace of a suburb.