Suburbs vs. City

[runawayjim]

i think the difference should've been suburban vs urban living. there's a big difference between suburban style development and urban style development, and i think that's what this thread is referring to. the suburbs you're talking about are actually just smaller outlying cities with urban-style development as opposed to sprawling suburban style development.

[FromCityToRural]

I actually wouldn't mind being in an urban-type living situation but for the fact that I'm too much of a car tinkerer for that. Now with a motorcycle, too, I'm almost dead if I even want to get your average apartment.

[penisathome]

CITY 4 LIFE! (though my family is moving to the burbs luckily I go to college in 2009).

[Dan64456]

Heres the thing... If you want noise one night, quiet never hurts. If you want quiet one night, noise always hurts. In the close suburbs you at least have that choice. In the city, you do not. And there is no question that you get a smaller house with much less land for alot more money in the city. The main line area, and anywhere in Montgomery County are cookie cutter yuppie suburbs full of pretentious assholes with rich parents. Delaware county is very diverse and has many good areas, and is even closer to the city. I95 is much better than I76, and the rail lines run all of the way thru Delco (Delaware County) as well. Ridley park in particular has a few express trains right to and from downtown. 15 minute drive, 20 minute train ride either way. While Ridley isn't the best school district, the area is very nice while still being very close for convenience. There is a pleasant mix of white collar and blue collared people so people are more honest and down to earth... The Delco area suburbs aren't like most othe suburbs at all. There is plenty of night life, and unique restraraunts (Both chain and mom and pop) so you at least have the choice there. Decent bars all the way up and down Macdade blvd. Best of all, you can walk your dog or go for a jog with minimal chance of getting mugged. That is an advantage you can't deny. You can own a car with reduced insurance rates, a place to park (FOR FREE) and not have to worry about it getting keyed up or hit every other week like they do in downtown philly. You don't have to drive it to get to downtown. The train is right there. If you do miss the train and need to get to work, simply drive up to Pattison Sports complex, park for 1 dollar all day, and take the broad street line up to Center City (12 minute drive, 10 minute subway ride) $2.30 for round trip. You get a bigger house, safer area, a driveway while still not being out of touch with society. Think about it.

[runawayjim]

Heres the thing... If you want noise one night, quiet never hurts. If you want quiet one night, noise always hurts. In the close suburbs you at least have that choice. In the city, you do not. And there is no question that you get a smaller house with much less land for alot more money in the city. The main line area, and anywhere in Montgomery County are cookie cutter yuppie suburbs full of pretentious assholes with rich parents. Delaware county is very diverse and has many good areas, and is even closer to the city. I95 is much better than I76, and the rail lines run all of the way thru Delco (Delaware County) as well. Ridley park in particular has a few express trains right to and from downtown. 15 minute drive, 20 minute train ride either way. While Ridley isn't the best school district, the area is very nice while still being very close for convenience. There is a pleasant mix of white collar and blue collared people so people are more honest and down to earth... The Delco area suburbs aren't like most othe suburbs at all. There is plenty of night life, and unique restraraunts (Both chain and mom and pop) so you at least have the choice there. Decent bars all the way up and down Macdade blvd. Best of all, you can walk your dog or go for a jog with minimal chance of getting mugged. That is an advantage you can't deny. You can own a car with reduced insurance rates, a place to park (FOR FREE) and not have to worry about it getting keyed up or hit every other week like they do in downtown philly. You don't have to drive it to get to downtown. The train is right there. If you do miss the train and need to get to work, simply drive up to Pattison Sports complex, park for 1 dollar all day, and take the broad street line up to Center City (12 minute drive, 10 minute subway ride) $2.30 for round trip. You get a bigger house, safer area, a driveway while still not being out of touch with society. Think about it.

[Dan64456]

all of this depends on the city you're in... in providence, even the suburbs have the same car insurance rates, but you can walk around and not worry about getting mugged in most of the city. cars getting keyed is just as likely in the city. it sounds like you're pretty prejudiced against living in the city, but it really depends on the city you're in. i've known people who got their cars keyed in the nicest of suburbs.

[runawayjim]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudiced against living in the city. Most people that live in the city are prejudiced against the burbs however, and most of them in THIS city never have been to the burbs. Most people that live in center city philly are this type: Parents paid for rent and college, they didn't grow up anywhere near a city, but went to school here, and happened to stay here when they graduated. So you can see where the pretentiousness comes from in downtown dwellers as well... I like being in the city, but the noise is just unbearable. And I don't know if you ever took a walk outside in philly after midnight or so, but there are some fudgeed up and weird people at least on every other corner. Simply not a desirable experience in my opinion. I'd love to live in downtown San Diego or something like that, but philly for me is strictly good for working and good for the occasional night out. Not living in. My point is - certain philly suburbs are nothing like the suburbs you see on TV with the cul-de-sac

[CityLyfe]

I was born and raised in the city. I currently don't live in the city I grew up in. I'm actually in another state. The suburbs in California are usually located in the desert where it is extremly hot, a long drive to a market, and civilization. The rent is alot cheaper ofcourse. I don't drive that often and love the public transportation system in LA. It takes you everywhere you need to go. I like the sound of cars driving along the streets, helicopters, and sirens. When living in the suburbs, people are often close knit and know everyone. I'm a private person and don't need to have people in my business.

[RON-E]

i chose city.

i am a person who believes in cities and what they can do and the impact they have on the lives of the people in them.

urban development is very important and it grows a city. what ever happened to the pre ww cities? i want those back. although i wasnt alive, i have read enough to know they were dense and populated with urban transit and walkability.

[CapeFearRiver10]

I hate suburb because its all hypocrisy to me, have you ever think about the why your suburb neighborhoods have ridiculous names like Oak Park & little town & farmville. Lets get real suburbia has nothing to compare with a small town or farms, then people say well we have walkable parks but thats a pointless argument when everybody knows that parks are suppose to be walkable. LOL suburbans rant that everything is much quieter in the burbs foolishness because suburb restaurant & retail chains bring lots of noise then the suburban complains that its too much noise & wants to widen inefficient roads continuously. The only reason why suburbia is safer because the older generation living in the city was too chicken s**t to fight against violence within the city & they were most likely the rich ones. LOL You can easily raise a family in the city & cities can only get better with good neighbors just like burbs. Most of the 1940's suburb was funded by the promise of great life for post-WWII veterans & close mind humans that hate diversity of the "Great Migration"... Most American burbs have no sense of community, personally suburbia creates isolation from the world & thats not realistic.

Hands down the city & "inner city burbs" wins!

Solar cars for suburbia & solar efficient suburbs is pointless they do nothing for the environment but cause less CO2's (big deal yeah right). Without cities & rural land whats the point of suburbia? Suburbia of the 1950's-present was the worst design architects ever made! Biofuel will never work either because the world doesn't have enough land to support it. Solar power automobile is a great idea for truck drivers, fire trucks, public services but commuters to work terrible idea... But the problem will never be solved because we live in a capitalist society that feeds off greed & I personally believe greed will be the death of capitalism but hopefully some suburbans will eventually realize that suburbia is inefficient so they can become environmentally friendly for future generations!

[Morpheus9]

Hmm someone from the Philly area, I can actually speak with some authority here. My parents live in Delco in the Philly area (Havertown) right next to the 100 stop. I encouraged them to move there when they were looking for a house and it is a good location for them, they're definately city adverse.

I lived in West Philadelphia for about a year and a half, would have stayed if my future wife didn't get a job in Connecticut. There's so many things that I miss about living in the Clark Park neighborhood, Clark Park itself....the african drummers every night, the community flea market and the farmers market every weekend, the great restaurants within walking distance. All those things made the small inconveniences bearable. Sure there were some shady characters about, but a good deal of them were so comatose that they hardly posed a threat. The worst thing I ever had to deal with was a few obnoxious teenagers and I've encountered plenty of those in the suburbs. I could live without a car, shop for groceries at the co-op, go to any foreign or independant movie on opening day, see most of the artists in my CD collection live in any given year. Baltimore Ave between 40th and 50th beats anything in Delco. Also Old City Philadelphia and Rittenhouse square are some of the most beautiful places in America.

That being said, I did live in Wayne on the main line for a while, worked in a coffee shop there and got to know some of the people who live there. There is a real sense of community there, people recognized me on the street, and there was quite alot in walking distance of the center of Wayne. Some of the stereotypes about the Main Line were true, but Wayne and Narberth also both have this early 50's small town quality to them that you don't see too much anymore. That and Narberth has a Japanese grocery with a really good, cheap lunch counter. Delco however, other than Media, which is a really vital small town, is endless sprawl in most parts. The most glaring example is Baltimore Pike in Springfield...modern suburbia at its worst. I did like taking the train out to Ridley Park though for the lake. That does look like a nice, peaceful place to live.

Now I live in a small town center, in a house built in 1880. Our lot size is 0.17 acre. I wonder where does this fit in the urban/suburban dichotomy. We have a 1x4 block commercial district and i'm one block off the main commercial street within walking distance of many restaurants, the library, 1.5 miles from work. But then I am in Connecticut and here cities are decaying shells or full of office buildings only that empty out on the weekends.

[runawayjim]

But then I am in Connecticut and here cities are decaying shells or full of office buildings only that empty out on the weekends.

[Morpheus9]

You should venture around New Haven. It's hardly as you describe. It's an urban gem in a sprawling suburban state.

[runawayjim]

Sorry, I did overgeneralize. I did look into apartments in New Haven when moving here and there are some great things about New Haven...Yale of course, but also Atticus, Broadway area, Wooster square, Cutlers. I guess it was a bit of a let down compared to Philadelphia. You can't really live in New Haven without a car the way you can in Philly, for most practical shopping you have to head to the suburbs. There is also an obscene amount of parking in New Haven's downtown, the travesty that is rt 34, where whole blocks were cleared out for nothing, and the dead zone around State street in the area of the green and Frontage Road.

[Morpheus9]

if you want a big city, you shouldn't have left philly. CT has small cities, which have their own quirks and uniqueness. you can't compare new haven to philly, apples and oranges. and you can live car free in new haven. many people do.

[The Voice of Reason]

You can probably live car free just about anywhere with a little effort and planning, what I mean is downtown New Haven is lacking in practical stores for full time residents. They have the boutique arty stores for suburban visitors, the kind of places college students need to go, but a regular grocery store, that kind of thing, is lacking downtown. Also, the residential areas downtown are more inner ring suburban than urban, you don't see the kind of rowhouses that are common even in small towns in PA. I may be overgeneralizing again, but the downtowns in CT cities are more set up to serve weekday office workers than local residents, which is why there's so much parking and freeway access to nearly every corner of our cities here in CT. I would have stayed in Philadelphia, but my wife works in the insurance industry, which is centered here in Connecticut. I am growing to appreciate CT for what it is but there's many things about Philly that I really miss.

[Afro Saxon]

City most certainly, I'm not sure if I could live in the suburbs. Insipid middle aged folks wish little interest beyond their kids soccer team do not appeal to me much(Vast and over the top generalizations). I like easy access, walkable , culture, diverse eating options and liveliness. Close to a top college and good museums.

[makejie]

That seems to be a common and logical sequence for young couples that then decide to have kids, but I would like to hear from others on this forum that have kids or have raised kids in urban areas and the 'burbs and see what their take is on it.

I don't have kids and that has made it easy for me to decide to live in the city (street car suburb) but it seems to me that kids can thrive in urban settings, and can just as easily get into very negative behavior/situations in the suburbs. Of course most parents wish to have the yard, the safety, and the good schools; but parks, actual crime rates as opposed to perceived crime rates, and parental involvement in education and cultural opportunities can make a city a desirable place to grow up.

I am always pleased to see kids in very urban settings seem to be so at ease and taking in all the environment around them with fervor- the interactions with the vast majority of the adult population that genuinely cares for the well-being of children helps raise confident and secure citizens, despite what some country or surburban folks may perceive as the dangerous and negatively influencing environment of a city.

And I can easily remember growing up in a rural town and the suburbs and how much trouble one can get into despite what may appear to be a bucolic and safe environment.

[FromCityToRural]

Well, I am still a suburbs guy, but I think I have honed that a little more now. Suburbs are not homogenous, I'd really rather be in the suburbs of a major metro area (Atlanta, Dalls/Ft. Worth, SF Bay Area, LA, etc.) than in a smaller suburban city, like Tyler (pop apx. 100k). I like the convenience of having the large city amenities and variety nearby, but I am still averse to actual, dense urban living if only because my hobby (working on my car) is made far more complicatd by a dense urban setting. Really, if I didn't have that for a hobby/passion, urban living would be doable for me.

[CityLyfe]

i grew up in a surburban neighborhood, and now i live in LA. I love both because of the different things they offer. the only thing i do not like in a city is the traffic...ugh!

[DiamondDave]

Living in the city would be cool, I've often wanted to have a place downtown in medium sized city, maybe have a rooftop patio. A place where I could walk to the store, or to a restaurant, where everything vital is a convenient walk. On the other hand I live on 4 acres about 4 miles north of a bustling metropolis area, the land and house are priced right and my children (one toddler and one on the way) have so much to do and a large area to do it. While I always will worry about the safety and welfare of my kids, being 400 feet off the road and somewhat secluded takes the edge off a little, I can let them play without constantly worrying about running into a busy road or being abducted by some sicko.

I take the suburbs!

[mlsimons]

To me, what I enjoy about my neighborhood...is the character! I live in the city of Norfolk, in a dense and historic neighborhood known as "Ghent", in a 4 floor tenement over 100 years old. I enjoy walking to the neighborhood drugstore, dry-cleaners, laundry mat, and my favorite place to eat, the Ten Top. The owner lives in my tenement on the third, and two of the workers live up on the forth. It's a quite but busy neighborhood with a strong historic Jewish community, and an old Greek community. Also many young people are here. All of this is vastly different from the suburban neighborhood i grew up in, I could walk to 7-11 there, that's it. Here I walk around on a Saturday and see many of the orthodox Jews walking to Temple. I run into the mailman on Colley Ave, or the crossing guard on Hampton. I see my neighbor who owns Ten Top and I ask about the special today...or I stop by my favorite coffee shop "fairgrounds" without money, because I know they can just put it on my tab. If I get 10 cups of coffee a get a free rental from the "Naro Expanded Video rental" which houses all manner of foreign or special interest films...especially documentaries MY FAVORITE!!! If I renew my prepaid card there I receive a free ticket to the "Naro Movie theatre" which shows special interest new releases, art films, or independent productions featuring guest speakers. After all of this I can go visit the local skateshop solebrother and see what's on sale, OR I can get an authentic Greek cheeseburger by one of the family owned restaurants which have been here for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghent_district

For me, I love the city!!!!!!!

I'm 23, with no kids, and I go to church several times a week. I consider myself a typical American "family-valued" young man

[RON-E]

as the trend continues, i would rather live in the city, closer to everything, and more and more is being built up in americas urban centers

[lala67]

I don't have kids and that has made it easy for me to decide to live in the city (street car suburb) but it seems to me that kids can thrive in urban settings, and can just as easily get into very negative behavior/situations in the suburbs. Of course most parents wish to have the yard, the safety, and the good schools; but parks, actual crime rates as opposed to perceived crime rates, and parental involvement in education and cultural opportunities can make a city a desirable place to grow up.

So parents, what are your experiences?

[FromCityToRural]

It's hard for me, as I've mentioned. An urban place to live appeals to me greatly, with a nice variety of things to do, places to eat, cultural opportunities, concerts, urbane and cosmopolitan people etc., as well as its liveliness. I love the look of a city, I love the complexities of it, the ins and outs of its infrastructure, its layout, its heart and soul. A liberatrian at heart, I find urban centres to be too intrusively regulated, however, as well as too heavily taxed. I am also a classic car restorer, and finding a home in an urban centre that allows me to indulge in my hobby is nigh on impossible.

Out in the country, it's more or less the opposite. I have the freedom to more or less do as I please, and the lack of services isn't so much of a bother to myself. But, it's a long drive to eke out any kind of fun things to do, like the concerts and cultural events mentioned earlier. It also makes for a long commute.

The suburbs have the best of both, in a sense, with more freedom and breathing space than urban centres, but good proximity to jobs and urban and natural recreation.