CONSTRUCTION THREAD: 98 East McBee

[charlie swords]

it definitely doesn't have the same flare to it as the previous rendering but i guess you got to what you have to so you don't lose your shirt on the deal. At least it won't be an empty lot....i guess.

[vwsam]

What a let down. I was holding any comments on all this until I saw the new rendering. I was really hoping for the same design with fewer floors. That pic up there is of an office building. All I can say is - it's just very disappointing...

[Danmire]

Unfortunately fo rthe new design it has the previous design to be compared to. Chalk and Cheese alright. But looking at it in it's own right, it's not a bad building and will be a good addition. At least it's not the normal Greenvillian brick vernacular.

[RestedTraveler]

meh.

They do appear to have oriented it better to Main Street, I guess. I agree that it's better than an empty lot. Maybe something will eventually happen with Main & McBee, speaking of empty lots.

[gvegascple]

Unfortunately fo rthe new design it has the previous design to be compared to. Chalk and Cheese alright. But looking at it in it's own right, it's not a bad building and will be a good addition. At least it's not the normal Greenvillian brick vernacular.

I like all of the glass but would have to disagree with the Greenvillian brick vernacular comment. Having that brick ensures that this building will fit in with the surrounding architecture long after the initial wow factor wears off. I really hope that the DPC is forward thinking enough to consider how this will fit into the surrounding area 15 years from now (assuming they break ground by then). An example that some might agree (or not) would be the Landmark Building, which is huge (and I'm glad we have it), but very dated looking pretty early into its life.

I am very impressed with the combination of glass and brick over at Riverplace, it has a "future-meets-past" quality to it that, in my opinion, will keep its appeal for quite some time.

Is that really white/offwhite brick that I see in that rendition? Did I miss the memo that circa 1970's office building architecture was making a comback?

[RestedTraveler]

Is that really white/offwhite brick that I see in that rendition?

It's stone of some sort as best I can discern. Perhaps Granite?

[vicupstate]

Maybe I have forgotten something but I se no reason why anyone would stay in the Peacock over the hampton Inn. The H.I. is on the river, and this building looks out on the Bookends. No comparison there. H.I. is in the heart of things, especially when Riverplace is finished. This is a little out of the main corridor.

Plus it cost what $80-90 a night more.

Not seeing it myself.

Building is bland, office-like and the windows look down on the gravel first floor roof.

I still don't understand how construction COMMENCES on a building without a CONTRACT for the cost. Once the contract is signed, how is the owner liable for the overruns?

[RestedTraveler]

I still don't understand how construction COMMENCES on a building without a CONTRACT for the cost. Once the contract is signed, how is the owner liable for the overruns?

That's the part I've been having trouble with, too.

[HSVTiger]

well as an outsider looking in, that new rendering in simple terms is awful.

If I was visiting Greenville(I have by the way, and your city is fantastic) I would not have any desire to stay

at this hotel.

The original was beautiful, this is something else. I know how frustrating this can be, similar things are happening

in Huntsville with piss poor lazy architecture.

[Greenville]

This new rendering sucks. Whatever that light-colored brick stuff is resembles some leftovers that a one-star motel would use. It's hardly fitting for a five-star hotel that is supposed to revolutionize Greenville as a destination for high-end travelers. What we were initially told and shown (i.e., promised) suggested a great luxury hotel with big-city style and amenities. But now, it is obvious that we have most certainly been duped. This was supposed to be an exceptional addition to Greenville's already classy downtown, but based on the recent news of the downsizing this is not even close to that.

I am sure it will be a nice place, but as a traveler I would probably choose to spend my dollars at the Westin instead. Heck, even 2.5-star chains like Hampton Inn and Marriott Courtyard seem to have better visual impact than this (at least the nice Greenville downtown versions). Pathetic.

I wish we could contact these developers somehow and tell them how very disappointed we are. I almost find it insulting that they expect the public to get excited about such a crappy looking design.

One more thing, and then my rant will be over. Why did they write a press release, share renderings with the public, and even break ground on this building without first checking to see how much it would cost?!? Did they simply not do their homework, or did a supplier change their quote? It screams "clueless" for the process to get as far along as it did before they realized that they didn't have as much money. And there is simply no explanation for the condos to have sold, only for them to eliminate 4 of them for no good reason. Ugh.

[vicupstate]

^^ Greenville, I feel your pain.

[goodbye]

well as an outsider looking in, that new rendering in simple terms is awful...

The original was beautiful, this is something else. I know how frustrating this can be, similar things are happening

in Huntsville with piss poor lazy architecture.

I must sadly agree with you on this new design. I thought we had learned our lesson decades ago when new highrise and midrise boxes were being drawn up with as little architectural appeal as possible. Simple architecture does not have to be so "unimaginative." Fortunately $60 million does not always result in a structure similar to this one. I hope a few years down the road an investor comes in and redevelops this building like the old Ramada has been transformed into the beautiful Brio condos. If not that, then perhaps someday this place will be razed for a new corporate headquarters tower. Nice thought, but it will never happen in my lifetime, so we are stuck with this apparent "eyesore" for at least a couple decades to come.

[gs3]

I don't know guys, I'm not going to judge it negatively so quickly. Yes, it's a bad rendering and yes the building is boxy, but I'm getting the feeling they may be going for a texture thing (the red brick, slick glass, whatever the white stone is). Lots of pattern and texture. I'm kind of digging that. This could be a pretty hot play with materials and then depending how it is lit..... Hmmm..... I like the chunkiness and lack of windows facing McBee. Sort of Hudson Hotel. Some interesting juxtaposition.

I want to see better renderings and see the actual materials.

[Greenville]

I don't know guys, I'm not going to judge it negatively so quickly. Yes, it's a bad rendering and yes the building is boxy, but I'm getting the feeling they may be going for a texture thing (the red brick, slick glass, whatever the white stone is). Lots of pattern and texture. I'm kind of digging that. This could be a pretty hot play with materials and then depending how it is lit..... Hmmm..... I like the chunkiness and lack of windows facing McBee. Sort of Hudson Hotel. Some interesting juxtaposition.

I want to see better renderings and see the actual materials.

You're right, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. And I want to. But after all the B.S. we've learned about in the last couple of weeks, I simply don't trust them anymore. Sorry.

P.S. If that light-colored stuff is indeed brick, we're in for quite the eyesore on McBee. I much prefer the darker color seen elsewhere on the building.

[gs3]

You're right, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. And I want to. But after all the B.S. we've learned about in the last couple of weeks, I simply don't trust them anymore. Sorry.

P.S. If that light-colored stuff is indeed brick, we're in for quite the eyesore on McBee. I much prefer the darker color seen elsewhere on the building.

I'm not even saying give them the benefit of the doubt. I agree with you Greenville. I don't trust them and I don't like their tactics. They, however, didn't design the building. An architect did.

I'm simply trying to look past this poor rendering at what could be. Also looking past the shape of the building. It's very obvious there is a train of thought around texture and pattern play. If so, and the materials are right, it could be quite spectacular. I'd love to see somebody be bold enough to use white stone, white granite, white subway tiles, etc. (ah la South Beach) around the lobby area.

[erm1981]

I know a lot of you dont like it, but I think it could have some sex appeal. Things usually always look better in real life once they are built. they are out there working on the site right now. I drove by there today.

[GvilleSC]

Hey, and you know... When construction time comes around, it could look TOTALY different. Imagine that...

[TREY]

I really want to be positive about this project. I respect and admire people willing to invest 60 million in downtown Greenville but what are they thinking?

It would seem the Peacock needs to be spectacular to succeed (considering the other hotels in downtown). If they need to down size the hotel there is still no reason that the design can not be spectacular.

If you sold all the condos why would you eliminate four of them?

It appears to me from the rendering that the new Peacock is about the same height as the bookends.

If I thought I was buying a view of the mountains and all of downtown Greenville and ended up with a view of the bookend instead I would be pissed. I would think the value between a 12 floor condo and a 8 floor condo would be huge? Maybe some of the condo buyers are talking to Bob about adding a few more floors to the Pinnacle?

I get a feeling that some of the condo buyers may back out and the building will be redesigned again or the whole project will go in the tank.

What do you think is they combined all the upper glass part into one tower and created a rooftop restaurant on the lower base?

This would restore the height and create a unique restaurant?

[distortedlogic]

Well I guess I'll weigh in too. I too would like to see some more renderings. But for now, I can't help but be tremendously disappointed. It just looks too plain and boxy to be a fancy one of a kind hotel. I cannot imagine paying over $250/night to stay here. The front and center "spire" looks forced and out of place, almost an after thought, to an otherwise completely flat roofline. The three color scheme isn't working. There is basically no creativity in the design, just a glass box with a brick backing, sitting atop an average looking base. It just has no style, no top, and looks like someone stuck sections of three different building together. I could go on...

As other's have stated, this is better than an empty lot (for sure!), but if this is the best they can do, they should change the scope of the project from superior hotel (" one of the finest in the southeast") to a run of the mill mixed use building.

And they need to update their website...

[gvegascple]

I would like to reserve my judgement too and remain positive, but if we wait until its built, won't it be too late then? I think it's pretty shady to show a rendering from that angle as well. My guess is its the best possible view of the building and even at that, I am nonplussed. I have a very bad feeling of what this place is going to look like head-on from the front, regardless of what that white material is. There has to be more renderings and information available. It just needs to be more fully disclosed in order to put my reservations behind me.

I am all for this project or a similar one too. I honestly believe that with our tourism numbers going up, a hotel like this will be a great addition to downtown and drive more retail development up and down Main continuing to turn downtown into a destination where people can not only enjoy beautiful scenery and hospitable people, but also contribute to our growing economy while here.

On a side note, who in their right mind would buy one of these condos on top of a hotel anyway? If this hotel turns unprofitable and gets sold to Holiday Inn, they are going to have quite the unique living condition. Someone with the kind of money to buy one of those condos, should have the intelligence to identify such risks, shouldn't they? Maybe I should start building some condos in the crawlspace under my house.

[wellen]

Geez, you would think $60MM would buy more. Must be some nice wallpaper on the inside, cause they didn't spend it on the outside. Kind of hospital-ly, if you ask me. I would rather have an empty lot...

[erm1981]

I think the hubble building cost around 60 million and it is way bigger and fancier than this.

[btoy]

I would never stay at a hotel becuase of how it looks on the outside, I could care less. You stay at a hotel becuase of how it looks on the inside, you stay for the service and in a place like this for the luxery.

My guess that much of this $60 Million is being spent on the interioir upfit and some of those materials and crafstmanship can cost a fortune.

Think of the Peabody in Memphis, looks alright from the outside, its calssical looking has some detail, but then get inside and it blows you away, the lobby and common areas are just fabulous.

Also, I don't see why you people think Kent and Peacock owe you anything, its their money not yours. When they unveiled the old design I am positive they had every intention of building it, but then reality set it. I hardly think that haveing to revamp a project is dishonest, it is just a nature of the business of development, learn how this stuff works, its just not as easy as you think. Costs change constantly, they kill and change projects all the time.

[gvegascple]

Also, I don't see why you people think Kent and Peacock owe you anything, its their money not yours. When they unveiled the old design I am positive they had every intention of building it, but then reality set it. I hardly think that haveing to revamp a project is dishonest, it is just a nature of the business of development, learn how this stuff works, its just not as easy as you think. Costs change constantly, they kill and change projects all the time.

I thought changes and the loss of consistency due to poor planning drove costs up, not down. This thing is starting to look like a Ramada. If the Hampton can pull this off, the Peacock should be able to do it better unless they lack the experience or planning to pull it off sucessfully. Ultimately it is their money, but we have to live with it when they sell out, take their money and move on to their next project. I would hate for Greenville to become a haven for greedy developers looking to make a quick buck off of the growing popularity of our city and then cash out, move on, and leave us to contend with the aftermath. Wouldnt new develpers rather chose to build on an empty lot than to have to raze an ugly building first? If we end up with too many poorly planned buidings, we may find ourselves painted, or white-bricked, into a corner, so to speak.

I just want to keep our standards high, and expect the same of those choosing to invest in our city. There is good investment and bad investment. I am sure there are many things that would be not in the City's best interest no matter how much money the investers intended to spend.

I need to get out and go enjoy downtown and stop posting so much this morning, what am I crazy ? It's Saturday, did I miss the Market?!!!!

[Greenville]

Also, I don't see why you people think Kent and Peacock owe you anything, its their money not yours. When they unveiled the old design I am positive they had every intention of building it, but then reality set it. I hardly think that haveing to revamp a project is dishonest, it is just a nature of the business of development, learn how this stuff works, its just not as easy as you think. Costs change constantly, they kill and change projects all the time.

Our opinion better matter a great deal to these developers. They are fools if they think their business will solely draw from non-Greenvillians. Those of us who are from the area will have the option of recommending it to friends, family, and business acquaintances on a regular basis. We ourselves might choose to stay there for a change of pace. And the local economy will certainly play a big role in supporting their spa and restaurant.

I understand that it is their money at stake, but at the same time it is OUR city. We care about the city, the way it looks, the way people feel when they are here. And I think the frustration many of us have centers around the inconsistency and what appears to be poor planning - in other words, things that could have been prevented. Either they misled us from the start, or promised things they shouldn't have. Come on, you should never announce a project, pre-sell condos, and have a freaking groundbreaking if you aren't certain about the finished product. From the looks of things, they didn't even have contracts signed for the work! That's bush league.

But nonetheless, I'm hoping this project will turn out to be great. If scaling it back makes for a better outcome, I'm all for it.