CONSTRUCTION THREAD: 98 East McBee

[goodbye]

It is much too simple, in my opinion. Looking like several buildings is not at all a bad thing, but this design to me resembles the former Ramada on Church Street (now beautifully transformed into The Brio). Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to achitectural simplicity, but this particular type of design appears to be nearly as bland as any I have seen - not at all an iconic structure nor one that will contribute much to the skyline.

[GvilleSC]

It is much too simple, in my opinion. Looking like several buildings is not at all a bad thing, but this design to me resembles the former Ramada on Church Street (now beautifully transformed into The Brio). Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to achitectural simplicity, but this particular type of design appears to be nearly as bland as any I have seen - not at all an iconic structure nor one that will contribute much to the skyline.

I agree that looking like several buildings is not necessarily a bad thing. It's all about how you connect them and make them work together to be attractive.

I think your comparison to the old Ramada is right on. (unfortunately)

[whitehourseview]

Just a thought, but have y'all thought that the design you're viewing may not reflect colors and scheme with 100% accuracy?

Greenville's a mid sized town in the Upstate of South Carolina. I'm not sure the community really has room to be that picky when a private businessman wants to build a non chain luxury hotel/ condominium/ spa complex on a lot that has been empty for a long time.

Honestly, seems like folks are just looking for something to complain about, which is natural, still odd, but natural.

If unsightly is the criteria for feeling gypped or disappointed, then about half of downtown since the Hyatt Hotel should meet that standard. I'm seeing a privately built, luxury hotel and spa, bringing a few hundred hospitality jobs, being a center for high dollar guests who spend more and contribute to the economy, and is unique to the region. I'm happy to see it and I hope its very successful. I'll have very little reason to ever go in the building, but I hope the folks that do have a nice time.

[Sonrise]

Whitehorse,

Out of all of the responses on all of the pages of this paricular thread I believe that you're the only person defending the latest rendition. I, like most other people on this forum enjoy buildings that add character, asthetic beauty and density to a city. Unfortunately this building does none of these things. In all honesty it is not attractive at all.

If you're affiliated with the developers in any way you would be doing them a great service by letting them know of the comments on this board. We are afterall a microcosm of the community at large. The 1st rendering was really attractive. Why can't they go ahead with the downscale yet keep the same look? Just my .2 cents. Thanks

[whitehourseview]

Whitehorse,

Out of all of the responses on all of the pages of this paricular thread I believe that you're the only person defending the latest rendition. I, like most other people on this forum enjoy buildings that add character, asthetic beauty and density to a city. Unfortunately this building does none of these things. In all honesty it is not attractive at all.

If you're affiliated with the developers in any way you would be doing them a great service by letting them know of the comments on this board. We are afterall a microcosm of the community at large. The 1st rendering was really attractive. Why can't they go ahead with the downscale yet keep the same look? Just my .2 cents. Thanks

I think the level of my defending it went to "it's fine", I'm not personally crazy about either rendition of the structure, but that's neither here nor there. I'm more critiquing comments like the DPC should stop the structure from being built, we've been gypped, the little nausea avatar guy, etc.

I wouldn't know the builders of the Peacock from Adam. And even if I did, I doubt if I could provide much of a service to them in today's construction environment based on comments from an internet message board. I have no idea why they can't downscale the original rendering, nor the economic/ organizational/ design issues they may or may not be facing. It's really not my business. At the end of the day, the developers are the ones taking the risk, not the peanut gallery

My point is that I'm glad an independent businessman believes in the Greenville community to build a luxury hotel/ spa/ dual restaurant/ condominium building that is unique to the area, that will provide a nice tax base and plenty of hospitality jobs. The aesthetic design of it and whatever personal feelings I may or may not have are secondary.

[krazeeboi]

Greenville's a mid sized town in the Upstate of South Carolina. I'm not sure the community really has room to be that picky when a private businessman wants to build a non chain luxury hotel/ condominium/ spa complex on a lot that has been empty for a long time.

No offense, but I think the "we don't really deserve it, so we'll take what we can get" mentality is what has eroded the character and identity of several cities over time. Greenville has mostly abandoned that mentality (at least downtown), and I think allowing the Peacock to be built as shown in the rendering would represent a huge step backwards in this regard. Making good decisions today sets a precedent for future development when Greenville is no longer just a mid-sized town in the Upstate and more people are exposed to the city and its built environment. I'm not saying that everything needs to be groundbreaking, starchitect-inspired architecture in order to be accepted (even though that might not be a bad thing), but at the least it needs to be something that won't constitute visual blight on the cityscape. And if built according to the rendering, that's what it will be.

[gs3]

Is this the time for the beginning of some Greenville conspiracy theories? Could the Peacock actually be a facade for a Men in Black or Get Smart type CONTROL headquarters? Is that what the underground pipe and street workwork has really been about.

Is the Liberty Bridge really an antenna for communicating with our alien overlords?

^

I'm the odd one out. I like it.

Any building that can cause this much reaction and evoke this much emotion has something good going for it.

[linkerjpatrick]

I actually don't really care that much for how they design the Peacock. It's really the business of the developer but I do think it was a better design when the spire was facing Church Street. My last comment was the result of my very creative imagination and what the heck, Greenville needs some juicy conspiracy theories.

Of course all we are going by so far is drawings and drawings are basically a guide and don't tell the full story. it is funny that the threads that get the most talk seem to revolve around buildings we will rarely step into. The only hotels I ever visit in the upstate are the Crown Plaza, Hyatt, Marriot and Hilton and that's because of the conference room space and not the rooms people sleep in.

[btoy]

I am with Whitehourseview on this, I do not like the way it looks really. But so what, the impact the hotel could have on downtown is what counts and I think it should do alot for downtown, even if it isn't attractive. Look at what the Hyatt did, its not exactly a diamond either.

[Greenville]

This design is horrible, and I do not see how the DPC can see it as an architectural asset to the city. These are the same people who have refused numerous projects for the pickiest of reasons. Based on the rendering, I see plenty of reasons the DPC could give for refusing this project.

If they approve the project, then I suppose we can all hope that it looks a lot better in reality than in the rendering.

I think we deserve much better.

[vwsam]

Has the Greenville News run a story with this new rendering? They need to before the plans go before the DPC, so the rest of the city can see what is going on here. Most people in Greenville think they are still building the old rendering and wouldn't know what all the fuss is about. Show that new pic and I'm sure there will be more than just us UPers going WTF???

I agree w/ RT on the "bait and switch". I wonder if there was any plan to build the old plan, or was it just to get people in favor of the project before rolling out what was really happening?

[linkerjpatrick]

Has the Greenville News run a story with this new rendering? They need to before the plans go before the DPC, so the rest of the city can see what is going on here. Most people in Greenville think they are still building the old rendering and wouldn't know what all the fuss is about. Show that new pic and I'm sure there will be more than just us UPers going WTF???

I agree w/ RT on the "bait and switch". I wonder if there was any plan to build the old plan, or was it just to get people in favor of the project before rolling out what was really happening?

No offense but I don't think "most people" in Greenville would care either way. That rings true with most things out there as well. Most people just go to a movie for the fun of it and don't see it the same way the movie critics do.

[crescentmoon]

I am with Whitehourseview on this, I do not like the way it looks really. But so what, the impact the hotel could have on downtown is what counts and I think it should do alot for downtown, even if it isn't attractive. Look at what the Hyatt did, its not exactly a diamond either.

I'm with Whitehorse & btoy on this one too. A private developer, a private project ... public input directed toward personal taste can go too far.

[GvilleSC]

During a quick search on Google for the Peacock Hotel and Spa, I thought it was interesting that even a Columbia news station, WIS, picked up a story on this project when it was first announced. Link It amazes me the amount of press it received only to flop to the current design and scaled back version. Did they not realize that all the attention could have meant that people liked it? Or that it was REALLY important as it was proposed with its amenities and ambitious rating it was seeking.

[distortedlogic]

Site Plan

Headline:

"New 5 star hotel for Greenville, one of the finest in the southeast!"

an ugly multicolored box with a toothpick sticking out of the top...

[Mr. Downtown]

"New 5 star hotel for Greenville, one of the finest in the southeast!"

I think I just threw up a little in the back of my mouth.

[RestedTraveler]

an ugly multicolored box with a toothpick sticking out of the top...

Well, aren't peacocks known for showing their colors?

[gs3]

Wow......since we are rushing to judgment on a project that hasn't even started rising out of the ground, I have a bag of big stones we can throw at the workers and contractors.

Has anyone seen the interior renderings? Are the sheets going to be cheap poly/cotton or 500 thread count Frette? Will the house wine be Sutter Home or Silver Oak? I guess until we know more, we don't really know if it will be 5 star or not.

[Danmire]

I may be alone here but I actually like it. I'm glad to see a building go up that is in away shockingly different to everything else downtown. It's hard to judge it on its own merits based on what was promised. But I think it'll add another layer of vibrancy to downtown. It's totally different to anything else in Greenville and I'm glad to see it. I do feel sorry for the bookends people though as their unobstructed view now will be gone.

The building is definitely producing discussion which all architecture should do.

[crescentmoon]

I agree, Danmire and gsupstate. Also, none of the rendering I've seen have been very high quality and experience has taught me that can make quite a difference. I see the potential for this to look really interesting -- both inside and out.

[gs3]

I agree, Danmire and gsupstate. Also, none of the rendering I've seen have been very high quality and experience has taught me that can make quite a difference. I see the potential for this to look really interesting -- both inside and out.

Agreed. A quality rendering makes all the difference. Even with this low level rendering, I personally really like the way the lower floors are the white stone and the chunky attitude with the way it meets the street....very urban IMO.

I'm not sure why so many people are hung up on the outside though....it's what is inside a hotel. Look at the Hotel Rouge in DC...ones of the cities hippest hotels and the exterior is strictly "post war bland apartment". http://travel.wwte1.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr...=new&from=m

Or take a look at the Hudson....nothing but cold from the street. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

The Setai in Miami, The Mondrian in LA, etc, etc. Nothing special about any of the exteriors, yet they are the cities best hotels.

[krazeeboi]

^Those hotels probably became "hip" and "trendy" in spite of their architecture, not because of it.

I'm surprised that you would so easily dismiss how architecture contributes to a sense of place. If the only thing that really counts is "what's on the inside," then just throw up bland, non-distinctive, uncontextual, EIFS-laden boxes all over downtown.

The Peacock could have the best of both worlds (which is what would have happened with the original design), but unfortunately, its contribution to the cityscape and urban fabric will be less-than-stellar IMO.

[gs3]

To each his own. I happen to like the exterior.

[krazeeboi]

Yeah, it's just a difference in taste. I have seen much worse though. But like I said, sometimes actual buildings wind up looking different than the renderings. We'll see.

[Greenville]

Has the DPC approved the new Peacock design yet?