City wide height limits for Charleston

[krazeeboi]

Exactly. Seems counter productive to me, unless that is their intent.

If Rosslyn is "normal" then that it quite depressing. There is transit, but its still the automobile's world. It felt like a Buckhead in a way. There are lots of skyscrapers, but very few ground level shops. Lots of parking. it has elements of what I would consider a good urban place, but IMO its just not there yet. Courthouse seemed further along in that regard. Its no Dupont Circle, thats for sure.

[Spartan]

Ok, perhaps those are "normal" - but its unacceptable to me that we (as a society) would consider that "normal." I think as a society we need to expect more than that from our urban centers. Its more than just density to me. For example, I was trying to find a decent looking local restaurant for lunch in Rosslyn, and I was unsuccessful. There was nothing to draw me in any particular direction to check out a street and see what the area had to offer (maybe there was a grocery store). We should be pushing for more places like Metro Center/Downtown DC in all of our edge cities. And the District is one of the best examples of urbanity in the country, so the metro area should be able to get plenty of ideas of how to do it right.

[krazeeboi]

^Oh I agree. Right now Tyson's is attempting to be retrofitted, and I imagine the same could be done for Rosslyn. Overall, the DC area is like a microcosm of urbanity in the US. You've got Rosslyn, the quintessential edge city of Tyson's, old school urbanity (e.g., Alexandria), new school urbanity (e.g., DT Silver Spring), old urban neighborhoods (e.g, Adam's Morgan), new urbanist communities (e.g., Kentlands), etc.

To try and tie this back into the Charleston area, something like Rosslyn would represent a step up for the N. Charleston area IMO--however, that wouldn't necessarily be ideal. Something like DT Silver Spring or Bethesda would.

[Spartan]

I agree with that to the extent that Rosslyn IS dense, regardles of the look and feel of its urban nature. There are several points here.

1. Charleston may be shooting itself in the foot to a certain extent if the areas that people want to build in can't be developed to the extent that its proffitable. I'm not talking about 30 storey buildings here. Just 7-10 like the Francis Marion, etc. Upper King St would be a good location for it...

2. North Charleston needs to step up and start planning for a denser and more organized future. There are some good things happening there, even if the north area is generally sketchy.

3. Downtown has a business district, but its limited.

4. Something like Rosslyn, VA would be a major improvement over anything that Charleston or North Charleston has at this point in terms of a business district.

[krazeeboi]

^I agree with all of those points.

One interesting thing to note here is that there are really no comparable metro areas in the nation in terms of our discussion here that I'm aware of. I think the DC region is just too large to make any immediate comparisons, but I guess that's all we have to work with.

I think that a height limit such as the one that exists for Madison, WI would serve Charleston well, as you still get a sense of height and density from the skyline.

[SimCity]

What is the height limit of Madison? The city's skyline has a pretty decent height to it, is dense like you said, and it seems to still be growing.

[krazeeboi]

^I'm not sure, I just know that nothing is allowed to be taller than the capitol dome.

[krazeeboi]

A guy from the Brookings Institute is suggesting that DC rethink its height restrictions due to land shortages within the District. Although Charleston is far from being almost totally built out like DC, there are some parallels that can be drawn here. For one, I would liken the District to the peninsula. One thing that the height limits in DC have done is practically force the surrounding areas to embrace density, and as a result you have suburbs and edge cities that are generally more urban on average. I say that if you keep the height limits in Charleston restricted to just the peninsula, we'll eventually see surrounding areas like the neck, West Ashley, etc. embrace density and height. However, citywide restrictions will eventually be to Charleston's detriment, as we've said before.

[Spartan]

That comparison has been made before, and I think its a good one. The contrast is, however, that DC has an outstanding transit system that is well used... Charleston does not. CARTA may be improving though. They are the first in the state to offer comuter express routes. Anyone know if these have been successful?

I think the main difference is that in DC you can still build relatively dense buildings. In Charleston, the height restircitons are more strict, preventing significant development in general.

[krazeeboi]

Good point about the METRO. One could probably say that that, more than anything, has contributed to the urbanity of DC's outlying areas.

[Spartan]

I often wonder what Charleston would look like today had they not had the economic collapse after the Civil War. Charleston was once a city of refinement and a center of culture in the South. Perhaps Charleston would have its own metro system. Who knows!

[krazeeboi]

I don't think that as many historic structures would be standing now if that were the case.

[Charles Pearson]

I often wonder what Charleston would look like today had they not had the economic collapse after the Civil War. Charleston was once a city of refinement and a center of culture in the South. Perhaps Charleston would have its own metro system. Who knows!

[Spartan]

Who's to say Charleston wouldn't look more like Boston or New York?

[Decafdave]

Who's to say Charleston wouldn't look more like Boston or New York?

[ohioaninSC]

I honestly think Boston is a an apt comparison if the city's economy hadn't collapsed after the "War of Northern Aggression".

See, I'm picking up the southern rebel attitude already.

[Spartan]

This is an interesting article with a unique tie in to Charleston. Prince Charles says that skyscrapers ruin historic cities. Ultimately, new buildings should be built to scale and style with the surrounding buildings, rather than creating new styles that don't fit in with the area. He directly references Canary Wharf, which is the high-rise former industrial district in London.

Related to Charleston's height restriction, any new buildings would certainly stick out compared to the city's historic skyline and architecture.

[krazeeboi]

^I think this is why just about all of us have stated that new highrises should be confined to the Neck. But I must say that the highrises (relative to the peninsula) that already exist blend in pretty well (e.g., Francis Marion hotel).

I find it interesting that some cities, like Paris, have their highrise districts that exist separately from the historic city. I can somewhat understand the rationale behind that, but it also seems that that thinking is what led to the separation of uses here in America, which in turn led to our sprawled-out landscape. How does La Defense relate to the rest of the city?

[GvilleSC]

I find it interesting that some cities, like Paris, have their highrise districts that exist separately from the historic city. I can somewhat understand the rationale behind that, but it also seems that that thinking is what led to the separation of uses here in America, which in turn led to our sprawled-out landscape. How does La Defense relate to the rest of the city?

[krazeeboi]

^That's why I think it best to not have an entirely separate business district, or if so, to somehow have it tied into a more historic urban center and to also make it mixed-use like the vast majority of historic cities in the U.S. have done.

[erm1981]

The geographic location of charleston has always reminded me a lot of manhattan island.

[GvilleSC]

^That's why I think it best to not have an entirely separate business district, or if so, to somehow have it tied into a more historic urban center and to also make it mixed-use like the vast majority of historic cities in the U.S. have done.

[Pillsbury]

The geographic location of charleston has always reminded me a lot of manhattan island.

[krazeeboi]

^That would certainly represent the best of both worlds, and I would love to see it happen.

[Spartan]

Interesting that you say that. There was an article in the paper not too long back comparing the peninsula and Manhattan. Personally, I'd love to see the upper part of the penninsula go vertical. There is some talk of that already. Everything is happening so fast right now.