Boiling Springs Developments

[westsider28]

I don't usually care too much about Boiling Springs development, but thought this one was worth mentioning.  The H-J had an article a few days ago about a plan for a 60-acre "mixed-use" development by Greenville-based developer Jennings Lyon called Northpointe Village at Highway 9 and Clark Road (I assume the SW corner).  It's supposed to have 5 apartment buildings with 216 total units, 74 patio homes, possibly a 100-bed assisted-living facility, and spaces for restaurants, medical offices or retail.  I put mixed-use in quotes, because though there will be a mix of uses, I'm sure it will be primarily car-oriented and not particularly walkable.  If it turns out to be better, I'll gladly eat crow.  The project should break ground by late summer.

Edited March 27, 2016 by westsider28

[Spartan]

I'd like to see the layout first, but in general I have fairly low expectations due to the County's lack of development controls. If they are able to install a parallel street network and not force all of the traffic to use Highway 9, (similar to how the Ingles is set up across the street) then maybe it will be in the 'not-horrible' category.

[westsider28]

As you may have seen, Boiling Springs is getting a slew of new chain restaurants.  Captain D's just opened; Popeyes, Salsarita's, and Donatos are coming soon; and Starbucks and Fuddruckers are rumored.  Looks like Highway 9 is well on its way to traffic hell, a la Woodruff Road.

[Sparkleman]

District 2 to build new high school without a tax increase. They plan to borrow 120 million to make it happen and they are going to do it on the existing property. Somehow the state's 4th largest high school has figured out things Spartan High could not figure out.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20160607/ARTICLES/160609712/1083/ARTICLES?Title=Spartanburg-District-2-plans-to-build-new-Boiling-Springs-High-School-without-tax-hike

 

[Spartan]

It's not a 1:1 comparison between districts. D2's tax rate is lower, but they have a higher budget ($73m for D2 vs $64m for D7) which leads me to believe that they have more residents and/or higher average property values by comparison. I didn't look, but their debt capacity may be different depending on a variety of circumstances. I'm not trying to discredit what you're implying (I actually agree with you), but there are plenty of possible explanations for how D2 didn't need to raise taxes.

For me it just further reinforces the need for fewer school districts and fewer elected official to muddy the waters.

[alias007]

I drove by the popeye's in Boiling Springs today.  They have sign saying that they are opening for business this Monday, July 25th.

[westsider28]

Think traffic in Boiling Springs is bad now?  Just wait.  District 2 is selling a 64-acre parcel where the current 9th grade campus is (to be relocated when the new BSHS is built) for a massive "lifestyle center".  They mention Target, Kohls, Publix, Home Depot and others as possible tenants.  There's also a section that would be townhouses, senior living, and open space.  They say they don't want it to be an "asphalt jungle," but then they mention the Dorman Centre as a model, which would be an absolutely terrible example to emulate.  Oh, and there could be a new YMCA branch there.

I'd love to see the historic circa-1940s-era old BS Middle (current Upstate Family Resource Center) be preserved, but I unfortunately don't see that happening in a place like Boiling Springs.  I fully expect this development to be nothing short of a total disaster, giving me yet another reason to never go up there.

Edited August 2, 2017 by westsider28

[Spartan]

I wouldn't set your expectations very high. They might try to plant trees in the parking lot, but Spartanburg County has few, if any, significant requirements of developers that might result in a high quality development. But don't worry - your County Council is working to adopt a zoning ordinance that will serve the purpose of preventing the mythical landfill from being built next to your house while simultaneously allowing this type of crappy development to continue.

Highway 9 is basically going to turn into Woodruff Road in terms of traffic

I should point out that I'm not opposed to this from a land use standpoint. Given the growth in Boiling Springs, the retail is going to come. I just want something higher quality that allows for traffic growth (which is inevitable) in a way that works, which can be done with the right type of street connections. It would also be great to set up a network for bikes/peds that allows people to get where they're going without driving.

[Spartan]

I'll be honest, I don't care for Boiling Springs at all - no offense to anyone that lives there. Boiling Springs is the definition of bad and unfettered sprawl in my view. I have no sympathy for people who move into subdivisions with identical houses on streets named for the  bits of nature that were destroyed to create it; and then proceed to complain about the very growth for which they are complicit.

That being said, I keep seeing articles about Boiling Springs in the HJ. They're working on a community vision exercise. That process, in and of itself, is a good thing. Establishing a common vision is a worthwhile exercise, but the irony is that because Spartanburg County has no zoning and no means by which to manage growth. People care more about the abstract concept of property rights (until the lack zoning of it affects their property), and so the development patterns of more subdivisions, apartments, and no new connector roads to accommodate new traffic out there will continue. Spartanburg County is not going to plan for growth in a meaningful way without a change in leadership. The so-called growth management process they are going through now might help prevent a factory from opening up next to a subdivision, but it's not going to do anything to set up a future that looks substantially different than what's out there today.

The only way they're going actually be able to control growth in that part of the County (or any other) is to incorporate into a town. A municipal government will be better equipped to deal with local issues and provide the type of management of growth that people actually want to see - assuming people are willing to accept zoning as a tool in the first place.

 

[Historyguy]

Today's Herald-Journal has some more on this topic:

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180428/incorporation-low-income-housing-battle-lines-drawn-in-boiling-springs

Definitely a lot of contentious issues going on here - incorporation, zoning, development, traffic, future land use...  and taxes.  I wonder how much of this is about taxes and how much is about regulations.

You can't realistically put any limits on growth and development without some type of regulatory framework.  And unless the County is going to step in, incorporation is probably the only answer.  But I suspect the people who might want to control or limit growth and development probably also don't want incorporation.  

I'm just glad nobody is throwing darts at the City of Spartanburg and raising some red herring about annexation - because that is so far out of the realm of possibility as to be laughable.  I don't think anybody in the City wants to buy those problems.  

[Spartan]

I obviously agree with your assessment. The County's so-called "zoning plan" isn't going to solve any of the problems that are inherent with suburban sprawl. Boiling Springs is going to continue to get worse. It sucks too because that used to be a nice part of the county. 

I thought that City had a policy about not annexing north of 85? Maybe I'm wrong about that. 

Also, state law requires that areas seeing to incorporate within a certain distance of existing municipalities seek to annex into the existing jurisdiction rather than form a separate government. I'm not sure what the distance is, but I feel like it is 5 miles. Maybe its 1 mile. Either way the point is that they will have to do some extra legwork if they ever want to incorporate.

[Historyguy]

I need to go back and read up on incorporation and annexation law - I don't know how far you have to be from the nearest municipality in SC to be able to start an incorporation petition.  I threw that comment  in there because years ago I heard that line that Boiling Springs folks thought Spartanburg wanted to annex them.  I'm pretty sure that's not true, however!  

I don't know if the City has a specific policy on annexation north of 85 - but from what the city manager told Council last week, they are proceeding on annexation in a few places slowly but surely, where it makes financial sense.  He said he expected to bring a number of commercial annexations over the next few months - mostly in areas that were subject to annexation under the water agreement.  I think Drayton is going to be one of those.  But they really aren't looking to bring in single-family neighborhoods (apartment complexes are more commercial under this interpretation) because it just isn't cost effective:  the service costs more than the tax revenue that single family hones generate.  I am wandering off the Boiling Springs topic, so I'll stop there.  

I do think some community visioning for the Boiling Springs area is definitely in order.  And I certainly agree that it's going to get worse in that area and they don't have any really good solutions.  

[vicupstate]

I believe there is a requirement for a proposed incorporation to seek annexation first to any city within 5 miles of the proposed city.  HOWEVER, that is null if the proposed city would have a population of 15,000 or greater. That last part was a change made somewhat recently (10-20 years ago) to allow James Island to incorporate when it was/is surrounded by Charleston. 

[Historyguy]

Here's the incorporation statute...  

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t05c001.php

[vicupstate]

12 hours ago, Historyguy said:

Here's the incorporation statute...  

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t05c001.php

Thanks. So if the new city is 7,000 or greater, the 5 mile limit does not apply. 

[Spartan]

The James Island thing was and is ridiculous. It's a paper town that can't function properly because its boundaries are so convoluted. I can't believe they changed state incorporation laws to let that happen, and I hope those people are happy with their marginally higher taxes and poorly functioning local government that they created just to spite Charleston.

I would be very surprised if Boiling Springs ever tries to incorporate, but I think there is a huge misconception about annexation by most people. Spartanburg can't just grab up any parcel it wants. People have to voluntarily annex. You can be involuntarily annexed, but a significant majority of the property owners around you have to agree to be annexed before that can happen.

I think the old annexation agreements in Hillbrook and on the westside might have people nervous, but those were old agreements from when the neighborhoods were built, and the City didn't do a great job of managing that process (from an outsider's perspective).

That being said, I think anyone who lives in a place that needs urban services (like a subdivision) or works in a place that needs them (like a shopping center or office park) should be a part of a municipality. Counties are less equipped to deal with urban needs, which is why special purpose districts exist. 

Anyway. I can rant about this for a long time. It will be interesting to watch Boiling Springs continue to decline with horrible traffic. It will be interesting to see if SCDOT ever decides to widen Hwy 9 again. Six lanes probably isn't too far off for the parts closer to 85.

[Spartan]

Yet again, another reason why urban places (and that includes subdivisions) should only exist within a municipality. Urban services, of which I consider a FIRE DEPARTMENT to be among the most important and universal government services, should be provided by municipalities. It should not be up to the whim of voters to decide whether or not a fire department needs new staff or equipment, etc.

 

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180508/voters-reject-tax-increases-in-boiling-springs-new-prospect-fire-districts

[Spartan]

This conversation is fascinating to watch from afar. I wonder when people will realize that "performance zoning" (or any other kind of zoning) is not a plan?

http://www.goupstate.com/news/20180524/spartanburg-county-council-candidates-talk-planning-for-boiling-springs

[Spartan]

I feel like the conversation up there goes like this:  "We want planning!"    "We want parks and open space!"    "We want sidewalks!"   "We want better roads!" "We want greenways and bike lanes!"

.... if only there were a legal framework where people could come together and choose people to represent them and who could collect just a little bit a money from everyone to pay for things that everyone will benefit from.  What a world that would be.

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20181022/boiling-springs-survey-demands-planning-and-green-space

 

[roads-scholar]

2 hours ago, Spartan said:

I feel like the conversation up there goes like this:  "We want planning!"    "We want parks and open space!"    "We want sidewalks!"   "We want better roads!" "We want greenways and bike lanes!"

.... if only there were a legal framework where people could come together and choose people to represent them and who could collect just a little bit a money from everyone to pay for things that everyone will benefit from.  What a world that would be.

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20181022/boiling-springs-survey-demands-planning-and-green-space

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel incorporation is the best answer.  Unfortunately, there are some folks in Boiling Springs who are dead set on any solution that borders on "more government" ie, higher taxes.  If any community needs incorporation it is Boiling Springs.  There's no planning, no direction, no leadership. 

[Spartan]

Yep. And more importantly, the County is not set up to provide the type of service that they want. They'll never make any progress otherwise, and the sad thing is that it's too late to fix the worst of the problems without a major investment in a parallel road system to Highway 9.

[roads-scholar]

I'm hearing that BIG things are planned for the old Boiling Springs school complex at Highway 9 and Old Furnace Road.  Word has it that the retail component will include a Target store. 

[westsider28]

Cross-posting this info from tonight's County Planning Commission meeting:

Clark Road apartments will be 173 units across 5 buildings.  It's part of the "mixed-use" development across from the new Publix.  There's already a SFH and townhome neighborhood, plus Circle K and Tractor Supply.  There will also be a carwash, dentist office, and one more (not yet pinned down) business.  Despite all this in close proximity, it's not really walkable.  So close, yet so far.

Bright-Meyers retail center Boiling Springs is the rumored Target (they didn't mention a tenant).  It's a single big-box user, 148k SF, 415 parking spaces, entrances on Hwy 9, Old Furnace, and Double Bridge.  Looked like there may be a few outparcels, and the westernmost land near Schoolyard Road was unused at this time.

[Spartan]

On 8/2/2022 at 10:23 PM, westsider28 said:

Cross-posting this info from tonight's County Planning Commission meeting:

Clark Road apartments will be 173 units across 5 buildings.  It's part of the "mixed-use" development across from the new Publix.  There's already a SFH and townhome neighborhood, plus Circle K and Tractor Supply.  There will also be a carwash, dentist office, and one more (not yet pinned down) business.  Despite all this in close proximity, it's not really walkable.  So close, yet so far.

Bright-Meyers retail center Boiling Springs is the rumored Target (they didn't mention a tenant).  It's a single big-box user, 148k SF, 415 parking spaces, entrances on Hwy 9, Old Furnace, and Double Bridge.  Looked like there may be a few outparcels, and the westernmost land near Schoolyard Road was unused at this time.

 

It's painful to watch all of the horrible mistakes being made in Boiling Springs.

[hub-city]

It is absolute uncontrolled, unguided, rampant growth.  The county should be embarrassed.