Norfolk International Airport

[rusthebuss]

It would be a definate bottle neck.  You would have to shut down half the highway at a time and do half at a time.  It would definately be a nightmare.  After looking at a map, shore drive would be a serious problem with an extension also.  You really have no room to extend the runway towards shore drive.  The only options are to pick up and leave, which will never happen, extend the runway by tunneling the interstate, or working with VB to call it Norfolk_Virginia Beach International  and have the airport condemn land above Northampton and between Diamond springs road.  This is the only way to get a two mile runway which is needed for large planes flying international.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly if they really wanted it that bad they could annex land from Isle of Wight county and build the proper airport if they really want this to happen. You will never see Norfolk and Vabeach work together on this. Norfolk wants all of the revenue and don't want to share it with the beach. Then if it does happen there would be pissing matches between the two cities on who get what out of it.

[rusthebuss]

Condemn the highly lucrative Airport Industrial Park?  Sure, VB will jump on that just to get a couple international flights.  VB is trying to expand that park by buying out Burton Station residents.  Bury 64 in a tunnel to extend the runway?  That'll cost at least a billion, likely more.  The Big Dig was plagued by cost over-runs.  Such monumental projects are not cheap.  It would be probably cost the same or cost less to build a new airport in western Tidewater.  The only reasonable option is to fill the man-made Lake Whitehurst, however even that has its problems since Little Creek stands in the way and the Whitehurst is a drinking water source for the City of Norfolk.

If everyone remembers, Norfolk did have international flights to Toronto via Air Canada.  Unless ORF becomes a hub, which in its present location it will not, there is no case to be made for trans-Atlantic flights.  The only international flights that appear reasonable given market conditions would be a return of flights to Toronto with additional service to Montreal as well as possible flights to Mexico, Puetro Rico, and/or Bermuda.  And the current facilities can support planes that can fly to those destinations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats not true we have a decent amount of international companies here that do international travels and would utilize it. i agree with western tidewater placement and Norfolk could annex land from the counties to serve this area. I don't see Norfolk ever being a hub. There are too many hub airports right now.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Condemn the highly lucrative Airport Industrial Park?  Sure, VB will jump on that just to get a couple international flights.  VB is trying to expand that park by buying out Burton Station residents.  Bury 64 in a tunnel to extend the runway?  That'll cost at least a billion, likely more.  The Big Dig was plagued by cost over-runs.  Such monumental projects are not cheap.  It would be probably cost the same or cost less to build a new airport in western Tidewater.  The only reasonable option is to fill the man-made Lake Whitehurst, however even that has its problems since Little Creek stands in the way and the Whitehurst is a drinking water source for the City of Norfolk.

If everyone remembers, Norfolk did have international flights to Toronto via Air Canada.  Unless ORF becomes a hub, which in its present location it will not, there is no case to be made for trans-Atlantic flights.  The only international flights that appear reasonable given market conditions would be a return of flights to Toronto with additional service to Montreal as well as possible flights to Mexico, Puetro Rico, and/or Bermuda.  And the current facilities can support planes that can fly to those destinations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I agree with a lot of this but comparing burying a few hundred feet of I-64 is a far cry from the big dig in Boston. The big dig ran over $14 billion in total and buried several miles of highway (well... is burying...) under one of America's densest cities. It also includes a bridge designed in a complex manner (the asymmetrical cable-stayed bridge) and keep in mind they had several times the amount of cars on that road during construction so that added to delays. I actually think burying I-64 underneath an expanded runway is a great idea, but definitely not a neccessity for several years.

[hoobo]

Thats not true we have a decent amount of international companies here that do international travels and would utilize it. i agree with western tidewater placement and Norfolk could annex land from the counties to serve this area. I don't see Norfolk ever being a hub. There are too many hub airports right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 777 carries over 350 passengers. The 747-400 carries over 400. Most LR versions of the A340 carry 300. The new Airbus A380 carries 550. Only the Airbus A340-200 and the Boeing 787 carry less than 250. The latter appear to fit the current runway length. Their passenger capacities appear more in-line with the HR market. Still, is there really demand for daily flights to London, Paris, Brussels, and/or Frankfurt? We're talking about an airport that has yet to hit the 4 million mark.

Edited August 16, 2005 by hoobo

[rusthebuss]

The 777 carries over 350 passengers.  The 747-400 carries over 400.  Most LR versions of the A340 carry 300.  The new Airbus A380 carries 550.  Only the Airbus A340-200 and the Boeing 787 carry less than 250.  The latter appear to fit the current runway length.  Their passenger capacities appear more in-line with the HR market.  Still, is there really demand for daily flights to London, Paris, Brussels, and/or Frankfurt?  We're talking about an airport that has yet to hit the 4 million mark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess you didn't read the article because it said that it would look at having them once a week or something like that. No one said daily flights

[urbanfan]

The 777 carries over 350 passengers.  The 747-400 carries over 400.  Most LR versions of the A340 carry 300.  The new Airbus A380 carries 550.  Only the Airbus A340-200 and the Boeing 787 carry less than 250.  The latter appear to fit the current runway length.  Their passenger capacities appear more in-line with the HR market.  Still, is there really demand for daily flights to London, Paris, Brussels, and/or Frankfurt?  We're talking about an airport that has yet to hit the 4 million mark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Considering it would be the only international carrier between D.C. and Charlotte, I would say there is a considerable market to be served. Not only are there several international shipping companies who have opened headquarters here but there are considerable military that deploy overseas all the time. Would be nice for family members to be able to fly out right here at home. I would have to say that the market for this would be considerable. Including richmond and our region that would be a market of 3 million plus. I include richmond because Reagan does not have international flights to europe just canada. I don't know too many people who would rather drive 130 miles to dulles as compared to less than 90 miles to Norfolk.

[rusthebuss]

Considering it would be the only international carrier between D.C. and Charlotte, I would say there is a considerable market to be served.  Not only are there several international shipping companies who have opened headquarters here but there are considerable military that deploy overseas all the time.  Would be nice for family members to be able to fly out right here at home.  I would have to say that the market for this would be considerable.  Including richmond and our region that would be a market of 3 million plus.  I include richmond because Reagan does not have international flights to europe just canada.  I don't know too many people who would rather drive 130 miles to dulles as compared to less than 90 miles to Norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree and i also said that there are more international companies setting foot in HR so it would be feasible move.

[hoobo]

How would a weekly flight work for business people? Where's the convenience? Weekly flights are fine for toursits and non-business travelers. Saving $50 by skipping a layover isn't worth the inconvenience of scheduling around the airline service.

As for military, shouldn't direct service to San Diego and Honolulu come first?

Drive to Norfolk or drive to Dulles? What about flying? When someone in HR wants to go to Madrid, they can get on a connecting flight and go to Dulles, JFK, or Atlanta.

The Airport Authority should focus its energy on landing JetBlue and getting direct flights to cities on the west coast.

[urbanfan]

How would a weekly flight work for business people?  Where's the convenience?  Weekly flights are fine for toursits and non-business travelers.  Saving $50 by skipping a layover isn't worth the inconvenience of scheduling around the airline service.

As for military, shouldn't direct service to San Diego and Honolulu come first?

Drive to Norfolk or drive to Dulles?  What about flying?  When someone in HR wants to go to Madrid, they can get on a connecting flight and go to Dulles, JFK, or Atlanta.

The Airport Authority should focus its energy on landing JetBlue and getting direct flights to cities on the west coast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Military have a strong presence in Europe. Although, it is starting to be scaled back now. Need I bring up the inconvenience of layovers. Whats worse, scheduling around certain flights, or sitting at a megaairport for hours for a connecting flight that ends up getting delayed. Mega airports are notorious for delays. They are the biggest joke ever known to man. Time to get rid of this mega airport crap and distribute the load throughout the nation. I keep hearing about ways to improve the air industry but no one ever brings up the fact that putting tens of millions of people through security gates becomes more burdonsome than helpful. No thank you, I like to pay more for a plane ticket knowing I can get in and out of the airport.

[VA2SA 05]

I dont think they need to extend the Runway like others have stated. Norfolk will propably never have anything larger then Deltas 757. Most Airlines operate small regional airplanes into ORF. Id look more into getting those bumped up to mainline then hoping for International traffic. Im really suprised no San Diego flight as come about yet. Seems like a no brainer to me im from what ive read the route has a high yield and alot of of people I think I remember something like 300 something people a day travel via air between San Diego and Norfolk.

[hoobo]

Military have a strong presence in Europe.  Although, it is starting to be scaled back now.  Need I bring up the inconvenience of layovers.  Whats worse, scheduling around certain flights, or sitting at a megaairport for hours for a connecting flight that ends up getting delayed.  Mega airports are notorious for delays.  They are the biggest joke ever known to man.  Time to get rid of this mega airport crap and distribute the load throughout the nation.  I keep hearing about ways to improve the air industry but no one ever brings up the fact that putting tens of millions of people through security gates becomes more burdonsome than helpful.  No thank you, I like to pay more for a plane ticket knowing I can get in and out of the airport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never had a problem with delayed connections. And everytime I've ever flown between ORF and LA or now, vice versa, I've had to go through a hub. Why are you guys so focused on getting direct flights to Europe when it would make more market sense to get direct flights to San Diego, LA, SFO, Seattle, and Phoenix?

[rusthebuss]

I'm not but I'm not against it either. I have a feeling there is a real reason this is brought up. Maybe there is a international company or companies planning to come here and this is a added incentive to bring them here. Possible

[urbanvb]

I'm not but I'm not against it either. I have a feeling there is a real reason this is brought up. Maybe there is a international company or companies planning to come here and this is a added incentive to bring them here. Possible

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not too terribly familiar with flying time as such but could most jets fly directly from here (ORF) to the West Coast without refueling?

[vdogg]

I'm not but I'm not against it either. I have a feeling there is a real reason this is brought up. Maybe there is a international company or companies planning to come here and this is a added incentive to bring them here. Possible

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you take all our port traffic into account, Norfolk is in fact a very international city.

I could see there being some benefit to adding international flights.

[vdogg]

I am not too terribly familiar with flying time as such but could most jets fly directly from here (ORF) to the West Coast without refueling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. I think it's about a 5 to 6 hour flight but I believe 747s and up can do it.

[hoobo]

I am not too terribly familiar with flying time as such but could most jets fly directly from here (ORF) to the West Coast without refueling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe it has to do with two things: the hub-and-spoke system and market demand. Those same two reasons should prevent international flights. The reason Air Canada started service from Toronto was that there was a market for it. After 9/11, the market died and so did the service. Southwest has direct service to Las Vegas, one of its two hubs. BWI being the other. Southwest uses 737s and is able to fly cross-country. Boeing is banking on the death of the hub with its 787 while Airbus is banking on the system continuing as is with the A380. You may be right, that this is all to lure international firms especially shifting the center of trading from NY and LA to HR. However, it may also be Pete Jr. establishing himself in his new position as every newly elected politician or newly hired CEO does.

[rusthebuss]

I believe it has to do with two things:

Edited August 16, 2005 by rusthebuss

[vdogg]

You could be right about Pete Decker and he does have a sketchy past

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How so?

[rusthebuss]

How so? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pete Deckers past streches all the way to the 70's boss.

[hoobo]

Yes. I think it's about a 5 to 6 hour flight but I believe 747s and up can do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any LR Boeing or Airbus can do it. 747s. 777s, A340s, and A380s (not yet in operation) are really reserved for overseas flights. However, 737, 757, 767, 787 (not yet in operation), A300, A310, A319, and A330 can also do the trip.

[vdogg]

Pete Deckers past streches all the way to the 70's boss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, but I was referring to the sketchy part. I haven't lived in this area all my life and I was wondering what about him was sketchy.

[hoobo]

Pete Deckers past streches all the way to the 70's boss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh? How do you know the guy and his past?

For some reason I was thinking of his son, Pete III. But Pete Jr. is probably the bigger cheerleader, anyway.

[okinawatyphoon]

I dont think they need to extend the Runway like others have stated. Norfolk will propably never have anything larger then Deltas 757. Most Airlines operate small regional airplanes into ORF. Id look more into getting those bumped up to mainline then hoping for International traffic. Im really suprised no San Diego flight as come about yet. Seems like a no brainer to me im from what ive read the route has a high yield and alot of of people I think I remember something like 300 something people a day travel via air between San Diego and Norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too am surprised we don't have direct flights to San Diego. Every month when Norfolk Airport releases its passenger numbers, it also releases the cities that Norfolk travelers visit the most. San Diego is consistently in the top 10, and usually around #5. It is the destination where the most Norfolk travelers go without direct service.

As for military families, I have great experience with traveling overseas, although only to the pacific. When summer time comes around, about half of the military families where I live (about 25,000 people) travel to America to visit family and such for usually about a month. And you know where a lot of them go? San Diego, LA, and HAMPTON ROADS. I would love to see the day when we have direct flights to Tokyo.

Edited August 17, 2005 by okinawatyphoon

[rusthebuss]

I too am surprised we don't have direct flights to San Diego. Every month when Norfolk Airport releases its passenger numbers, it also releases the cities that Norfolk travelers visit the most. San Diego is consistently in the top 10, and usually around #5. It is the destination where the most Norfolk travelers go without direct service.

As for military families, I have great experience with traveling overseas, although only to the pacific. When summer time comes around, about half of the military families where I live (about 25,000 people) travel to America to visit family and such for usually about a month. And you know where a lot of them go? San Diego, LA, and HAMPTON ROADS. I would love to see the day when we have direct flights to Tokyo. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You never know but it all depends on how much this area grows. We are kind of growing slow compared to other metro areas. I'm wondering why we are growing at such a slow rate.

[okinawatyphoon]

You never know but it all depends on how much this area grows. We are kind of growing slow compared to other metro areas. I'm wondering why we are growing at such a slow rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean growing slow? Downtown development has taken off, although it may be somewhat late. The port is on track to become the busiest on the east coast, and Norfolk airport is up another 8% this year even after losing a carrier.