Thousands of condos coming to downtown

[Spartan]

This is a very exiting article to read in The State today.

It says that Columbia is really jumpting on board the nation-wide downtown living trend, and that thousands of new condominium units are going to be added to the market over the next couple of years.

Some vital quotes:

[waccamatt]

I think Krazeeboi posted some recent pictures of Renaissance Plaza in the developments thread. Downt Columbia (really the whole metro area) is booming and will see large population increases in the next 10 years.

[MZT]

Some of these developers may be overshooting the market.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/...on/15102639.htm

I find it hard to beleive Columbia has the income demographics to support many 750K condos.

[waccamatt]

Some of these developers may be overshooting the market.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/...on/15102639.htm

I find it hard to beleive Columbia has the income demographics to support many 750K condos.

You would be surprised. Don't forget that Columbia has alot of positions in the medical profession, law, college administrators and state agency heads. These high-end condos have been selling like crazy. Demand for Adesso has been so high they are having to draw names for those who will have an opportunity to purchase one of the condos.

[emerging.me]

I'm so glad to see the downtown housing market finally starting to come out of its gestation period. There is no bubble here -- except for maybe in the far-reaching 'burbs, so all this talk is nothing for urban enthusiasts to fret over. It's actually a good thing that the market is normalizing and becoming a legitimate market... developers are starting to get *real*. Everything prior to now has been almost all speculation and geared towards real estate investors. And while I do not even think the "luxury" niche has been saturated yet, it's good that developers are thinking ahead. I'm glad to see a balance starting to emerge in downtown living options.

[krazeeboi]

You would be surprised. Don't forget that Columbia has alot of positions in the medical profession, law, college administrators and state agency heads. These high-end condos have been selling like crazy. Demand for Adesso has been so high they are having to draw names for those who will have an opportunity to purchase one of the condos.

And let's not forget USC's research campus, Innovista. This is primarily why Adesso got built and it explains its proximity to the Horizon block.

The downtown market is beginning to mature, and this is a good thing. But as was stated in the article, the majority of projects will have to be more modest in price. As Innovista starts building out and gaining more and more steam, will see more high-end condos come into the picture. But the fact that many of the more expensive units are selling demonstrates that the developers are capitalizing on a largely untapped market in Columbia.

If there's one project that I think may not get built, it might be the Loft's at Printers Square--simply due to the fact that it's entirely a high-end project with penthouses going for $1M.

[SimCity]

The influx of so many new residents is sure to keep the Columbia and Charleston metropolitian areas population size neck and neck with each other for years to come. This is really great news for Columbia and works towards reducing sprawl. Hopefully this will catch on in Greenville and Charleston also.

[krazeeboi]

To be fair, Greenville and Charleston are both receiving their fair share of new developments. Of course, Greenville has more to work with downtown since it's not as developed as downtown Charleston. What really gives Columbia an advantage here is having the research campus located downtown. So we get economic development coupled with urban development all happening downtown.

[Doug L]

I know that this is a dumb question; but I am serious. Where is Printer's Square. I haven't a clue.

[krazeeboi]

That's a proposed development that will go on the "Eye on Gervais" property, if I'm not mistaken (I think that's the name of the building in the Vista). It's supposed to be a 15-20 unit, 4-story condo building with about four penthouses at the top each going for $1M.

[waccamatt]

That's a proposed development that will go on the "Eye on Gervais" property, if I'm not mistaken (I think that's the name of the building in the Vista). It's supposed to be a 15-20 unit, 4-story condo building with about four penthouses at the top each going for $1M.

I think part of the reason the penthouses were going to be so expensive is that the owner of Eye on Gervais, also the developer of the project, is going to live in one of the penthouses and operate Eye on Gervais in one of the first floor retail slots. With those 2 things being built into the project it should ensure its viability, IMO.

[krazeeboi]

Ahhh, I see. Well if it's still going to go forward, I sure hope we hear something about it soon.

I'd like to see some affordable condos ($100K-$250K) come to the Arsenal Hill neighborhood. I think the vacant parcels along Pulaski would be a great location. I think the Battery at Arsenal Hill will only contain single family homes and townhomes, but it's a good thing that the development will be affordable.

[waccamatt]

The influx of so many new residents is sure to keep the Columbia and Charleston metropolitian areas population size neck and neck with each other for years to come. This is really great news for Columbia and works towards reducing sprawl. Hopefully this will catch on in Greenville and Charleston also.

I'm not sure I would say Columbia and Charleston's metro populations are "neck and neck" although they are fairly close. According to the 2004 population estimates, Columbia's MSA had 679,456 people and Charleston's had 583,434. This is a difference of 96,022 or 16.46%. I didn't have the 2005 estimates readily available.

[Spartan]

I'm not sure I would say Columbia and Charleston's metro populations are "neck and neck" although they are fairly close. According to the 2004 population estimates, Columbia's MSA had 679,456 people and Charleston's had 583,434. This is a difference of 96,022 or 16.46%. I didn't have the 2005 estimates readily available.

True, but if you take a look at the Urban Area populations, they are nearly identical.

[waccamatt]

True, but if you take a look at the Urban Area populations, they are nearly identical.

Yes, I agree, but they were comparing metro populations.

[krazeeboi]

2005 estimates are 690K (Columbia) and 595K (Charleston).

In terms of a true peer competitor of Columbia, I would consider that to be Knoxville--nearly identical in every respect statistics-wise, and even the local economies are very similar.

[waccamatt]

2005 estimates are 690K (Columbia) and 595K (Charleston).

In terms of a true peer competitor of Columbia, I would consider that to be Knoxville--nearly identical in every respect statistics-wise, and even the local economies are very similar.

That is very true, except the politics are much different. East Tennessee is as conservative as upstate SC.

[GamecockEngineer]

2005 estimates are 690K (Columbia) and 595K (Charleston).

In terms of a true peer competitor of Columbia, I would consider that to be Knoxville--nearly identical in every respect statistics-wise, and even the local economies are very similar.

You dead right. I've always considered Knoxville and Columbia to be very similar, in so many aspects. The buildings are around the same heights, the presence of the largest state university, the rivers (although the Tennessee river is a bit larger), even two distinct restaurant/night life districts (I do think that the Vista and Five Points and both better than "Old Town" and "The Strip"). Knoville does have the mountains, but Colas a quick drive to the mountains OR the beach.

[Hybrid0NE]

Go Columbia! Glad to see that the city is still progressing.

[vicupstate]

The premise of the article is that the DT market has yet to gel, and that prices and 'pipeline' supply may be ahead of demand. The article backs that up pretty well. We have yet to see a large non-Williams-Brice project hit the market. Canalside will be the first real litmus test.

Ten years ago, Greenville had pent-up demand for DT housing but a very small supply. The supply has since expanded and demand has moderated as the price levels priced many out of the market. The number of projects starting has all but dried up. The market was broad, but not at the inflated price ranges, IMO.

If the developers in Columbia can build units that are more affordable, then that fate can be avoided. However escalating land prices will make that a challenge.

Charleston has tons of people living DT, so I don't see either Gville or Cola in it's league anytime soon in that regard.

[Spartan]

The premise of the article is that the DT market has yet to gel, and that prices and 'pipeline' supply may be ahead of demand. The article backs that up pretty well. We have yet to see a large non-Williams-Brice project hit the market. Canalside will be the first real litmus test.

Ten years ago, Greenville had pent-up demand for DT housing but a very small supply. The supply has since expanded and demand has moderated as the price levels priced many out of the market. The number of projects starting has all but dried up. The market was broad, but not at the inflated price ranges, IMO.

If the developers in Columbia can build units that are more affordable, then that fate can be avoided. However escalating land prices will make that a challenge.

Charleston has tons of people living DT, so I don't see either Gville or Cola in it's league anytime soon in that regard.

You have to consider that real estate markets work in cycles. You can see this anywhere you go. New projects come all at (or near) the same time... then they stop for a while. Just because you don't have something the scale of the developments near the Stadium doesn't mean that demand isn't there for it. Canalside and Bull St are definately major stepping stones.

Charleston is just a different animal than Columbia or Greenville. Its not really a fair comparison IMO.

[waccamatt]

The premise of the article is that the DT market has yet to gel, and that prices and 'pipeline' supply may be ahead of demand. The article backs that up pretty well. We have yet to see a large non-Williams-Brice project hit the market. Canalside will be the first real litmus test.

Ten years ago, Greenville had pent-up demand for DT housing but a very small supply. The supply has since expanded and demand has moderated as the price levels priced many out of the market. The number of projects starting has all but dried up. The market was broad, but not at the inflated price ranges, IMO.

If the developers in Columbia can build units that are more affordable, then that fate can be avoided. However escalating land prices will make that a challenge.

Charleston has tons of people living DT, so I don't see either Gville or Cola in it's league anytime soon in that regard.

Does anyone have downtown population figures? I've always thought Columbia had a sizable downtown population because of the number of highrise condos/apartments and college students. By downtown I'm referring to the original city limits - the river, Elmwood, Whaley and Harden Street.

[Spartan]

Does anyone have downtown population figures? I've always thought Columbia had a sizable downtown population because of the number of highrise condos/apartments and college students. By downtown I'm referring to the original city limits - the river, Elmwood, Whaley and Harden Street.

It does. Its not anywhere near Charleston, but its pretty substantial. I can give you a figure from 2000 later on.

[waccamatt]

It does. Its not anywhere near Charleston, but its pretty substantial. I can give you a figure from 2000 later on.

Charleston is pretty unique, though, in that their downtown is more residential than commercial. I can't think of even a 10 story office building in DT Charleston. Charleston does what they do very well, but I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not having a highrise office district out around 17 and 26.

[sonofaque86]

Charleston should have a high rise district...The demand is certainly there...It doesn't have to be in the traditional downtown because there is really no way that can happen