More living in downtown OKC than Tulsa

[jbrown84]

The Oklahoman has published figures from the Department of Commerce that show several interesting things.

TULSA

Working downtown: 33,590

Living downtown: 3,506 (10.43%)

OKC

Working downtown: 24,115

Living downtown: 3,995 (16.56%)

It's not a huge surprise that more work in DT Tulsa, although the decline of Williams I would have thought would have had a major impact, but maybe the numbers were even higher 5 years ago. I'm kind of surprised that even now before all the OKC downtown housing projects are done, there is already a higher number and higher percentage living downtown than in Tulsa. The gap will widen in the next 2,3,4 years as these projects come online. As far as I know, Tulsa is not keeping up in that area, although I believe they do have a big project going up near Utica Square.

[swake]

The Oklahoman has published figures from the Department of Commerce that show several interesting things.

TULSA

Working downtown: 33,590

Living downtown: 3,506 (10.43%)

OKC

Working downtown: 24,115

Living downtown: 3,995 (16.56%)

It's not a huge surprise that more work in DT Tulsa, although the decline of Williams I would have thought would have had a major impact, but maybe the numbers were even higher 5 years ago. I'm kind of surprised that even now before all the OKC downtown housing projects are done, there is already a higher number and higher percentage living downtown than in Tulsa. The gap will widen in the next 2,3,4 years as these projects come online. As far as I know, Tulsa is not keeping up in that area, although I believe they do have a big project going up near Utica Square.

What is the definition for downtown Tulsa? If it's inside the IDL for Tulsa but includes Bricktown for OKC than I can see these numbers.

Anyway, the Utica project would not be considered downtown in any case, Utica is midtown. Now, if Uptown was included with downtown for Tulsa, it's kind of downtown the way Bricktown is for OKC, then Tulsa would have far more people living in the area. I would also assume that these numbers do not include the new Pearl District, and might not include Gunboat Park.

[AngelRockxxx]

Correct me if I'm wrong, cause I very well could be LOL but wasn't there some kind of major project that was being talked about in terms of getting more housing in downtown Tulsa to promote more people living downtown?

I read that somewhere and now I can't remember where...

[Spartan]

That speaks volumes for Tulsa. It is generally percieved as a smaller place by outsiders, but that makes me want to visit there and see what all the fuss is about

[jbrown84]

I know Utica Place is outside of downtown. I just mentioned it because it is mid-rise.

The exact definition of "downtown" is not mentioned. It is only a graphic with captions. It would be helpful to know. There is actually not very many living in Bricktown at this time, but there's quite a few just north of it in Deep Deuce.

[swake]

There are several housing projects in or near downtown in Tulsa. The Philtower has just completed a project to convert the upper floors to lofts. And there are several other conversions of downtown buildings that have started or are about to start, the most notable being the Mayo building and the Mayo hotel, about 100 lofts in each building.

Close to downtown but not in downtown (if you define that as in the IDL) The Village at Central Park (in the Pearl District) is about to enter phase two. That's a really nice townhome development but it's not technically downtown being on the outside of the IDL (The Inner Dispersal Loop - I-444 - for non-Tulsans, it's the highway that rings downtown) Also, there's the Tudors, another townhome development in the uptown area just south of downtown, and as part of that is the soon to start construction Tudor Flats, which will be multi-use a midrise condo building. All told there are some 500 units in or near downtown that are just finished/under construction/about to start with thousands more planned/rumoured.

Midtown has many infill projects, the most notable being the Utica Place project, but there are many smaller projects, in the area around Utica Square it's common to see a $500,000 home leveled for a many million dollar one.

[Okie]

Swake........

Yes there are lots of urban livers JUST outside the IDL in Uptown. But OKC has quite a few urban dwellers living in Midtown and JUST on the other side of Tenth. So in the end that's an even argument.

But there are like 40,000 church goers in downtown Tulsa, which is uh.... more than OKC, obviously.

[swake]

One large difference between midtown OKC and uptown Tulsa is that uptown has a good collection of highrise and midrise buildings, inlcuding one that would be the sixth tallest building in Oklahoma City if it were there. Does midtown OKC have any highrises?

[Okie]

Why is this always a competition with you to piss off the OKC overlords?

Yes there is The Classen, a Price Tower rip off. There are handfuls of mid-rises. Mostly abandoned galleries and flop houses, almost all of which have been purchased by developer Greg Banta this year as part of his MidTown Renaissance development. OKC's version of Kanbar & Kaufman.

P.S. I absolutely agree with you, Swake, though that the University Club tower is pretty neat. No hard feelings, man...

[swake]

Why is this always a competition with you to piss off the OKC overlords?

Yes there is The Classen, a Price Tower rip off. There are handfuls of mid-rises. Mostly abandoned galleries and flop houses, almost all of which have been purchased by developer Greg Banta this year as part of his MidTown Renaissance development. OKC's version of Kanbar & Kaufman.

P.S. I absolutely agree with you, Swake, though that the University Club tower is pretty neat. No hard feelings, man...

This thread was not started by me, what are you talking about? I was in Okc last weekend and drove through the midtown area, it's a lot better than it was when I lived in Okc, cleaner, somewhat restored. It's a near urban area. Heritage Hills and Mesta Park are nice and improving, but still need a lot of work, there's some really bad areas right next door. I've heard for many years about how Heritage Hills is going to be like Tulsa's Maple Ridge, it could be, but there's a long way to go.

Of course something needs to be done in Tulsa to regulate the leveling of smaller homes in Maple Ride and other midtown areas to be replaced by huge suburban style homes that leave no yard. Some of those little houses are of no historical value, but some are and usually the style and size of the replacment has no relationship to the area

The Classen is a nice building, I think it will do well, but it is about as close to downtown Okc as Utica Square is to downtown, do you want to compare midtown Tulsa to the area that the classen is? Is that really midtown Okc?

Midtown Tulsa has it's own collection of buildings and neighborhoods, seperate from Uptown, Uptown is a small area south of the IDL and north of 21st St, about six blocks wide and about a mile across, the entire area is just about 1/2 of a square mile. There are at least a dozen or so midrises and highrises (about half are residential), a nightlife district (SoBo), and a couple of neighborhoods. Uptown was chopped off of downtown in the late 70's and early 80's when the south leg of the IDL was completed. I lived in the early 90's in "Uptown", but that was before that moniker was created, I always told people I lived downtown.

[Okie]

I am fairly aware of Midtown Tulsa. Most everything between 11th and Skelly (not in Uptown or downtown) and fairly established is pretty nice. I would even go so far as say chic compared to OKC, Memphis, Dallas-Fort Worth, Nashville, etc, etc...

The Classen is going to be a terrible flop because so many of the downtown projects are affordable and these units are very small and very expensive... and I would rather have something small and affordable in the middle of downtown than something small and sky-high north of MidTown, which is the area between downtown and Heritage Hills. 23rd is actually considered "Uptown".

[Architect]

The Oklahoman has published figures from the Department of Commerce that show several interesting things.

TULSA

Working downtown: 33,590

Living downtown: 3,506 (10.43%)

OKC

Working downtown: 24,115

Living downtown: 3,995 (16.56%)

It's not a huge surprise that more work in DT Tulsa, although the decline of Williams I would have thought would have had a major impact, but maybe the numbers were even higher 5 years ago. I'm kind of surprised that even now before all the OKC downtown housing projects are done, there is already a higher number and higher percentage living downtown than in Tulsa. The gap will widen in the next 2,3,4 years as these projects come online. As far as I know, Tulsa is not keeping up in that area, although I believe they do have a big project going up near Utica Square.

[jbrown84]

OKC's working downtown population is impacted by the fact that there is a large NW business district with quite a few highrises. On top of that, many of OKC's downtown highrises are class B or C, while a lot of the class A is outside of downtown.

Tulsa has this problem too.

[Okie]

The Capitol complex is outside of downtown, Tinker is outside of downtown, so is OU, and so is the FAA. But if you look at DT Tulsa or OKC, and then look at DT Little Rock or Des Moines ... I find it very hard to believe that there are more employed in DT Little Rock or DT Des Moines than in DT Tulsa or OKC.

Downtowns Des Moines and Little Rock are nice, and superb for a city that size ... but Downtowns OKC and Tulsa are plainly majestic.