Ideas for reducing dependence on gas and petroleum?

[Mith242]

Wow...somehow that went completely over my head. Thanks!

No worries.

Does anyone know of any other crops that are being considered for ethanol? One of the news networks had a story on the Brazilian sugar crop and their ethanol program yesterday.

[jfmecca]

Aside from deciding what to grow, where will we grow it? Can we grow enough?

A few weeks ago I read that something like 13% of last year's corn crop went into ethanol production... and that barely made a dent in offsetting pertoleum useage.

[Mith242]

Aside from deciding what to grow, where will we grow it? Can we grow enough?

A few weeks ago I read that something like 13% of last year's corn crop went into ethanol production... and that barely made a dent in offsetting pertoleum useage.

That and I think we also need to find better sources of ethanol. I think there are better crops that are less intensive and grow more quickly.

[Nitro]

I read an interesting report produced by some engineers at GM the other day.

If we used 100% of the corn crop in the United States we would only be able to make ethanol for 16% of the total fuel consumption in the US. The report was advocating making ethanol from biomass as a more viable alternative then corn.

[Mith242]

I read an interesting report produced by some engineers at GM the other day.

If we used 100% of the corn crop in the United States we would only be able to make ethanol for 16% of the total fuel consumption in the US. The report was advocating making ethanol from biomass as a more viable alternative then corn.

Yeah an Arkansas official caught some flak for not supporting more biofuels instead of building more fossil fuel facilities. But he stated that there isn't enough corn or other crops to supply enough fuel. Then also what happens when you have a bad crop? Now we do have to realize there's no way we are going to be able to get rid of fossil fuels anytime in the near future. But that certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking for some alternatives now. Fossil fuels aren't going to last forever.

[pyper]

No worries.

Does anyone know of any other crops that are being considered for ethanol? One of the news networks had a story on the Brazilian sugar crop and their ethanol program yesterday.

Switchgrass -- All about it.

I remember in the 80s my family took a trip across the plains, and at 55mph we found the car got much better milage with AC than windows.

I find myself in pretty much the same situation as the original poster in this thread -- 40 mile commute and no possibility of carpooling or anything. I take fewer side trips, and consolodate errands as much as possible. My v6 truck gets decent milage for a truck, but not stellar -- 22 highway, give or take. I've tried to convice my DW that we should have another car. She compares the savings in gasoline to the added expense of insuring 3 vehicles and it doesn't work just yet.

I've got some friends who drive 1985 Mercedes diesel cars. They burn corn oil. Nothing done to the oil or the car. Catch is it won't run if it's below 55 degrees, but they live in Florida so it works.

Here's a spot of irony for you -- SUVs were created, to a large degree, *because of* CAFE standards. Look back in time, to the 50's, 60's, and 70's. People with campers and boats drove station wagons. Along comes CAFE, so they can't put big motors in cars anymore. What's a guy with a trailer to do? SUV's to the rescue.

So what's my plan? Short term is to suck it up and pay for the gas. Prices get too high, and I'll get whatever the current version of the GEO Metro is. Moving isn't really an option, and neither is working closer to home. Not without some radical life changes, anyway.

[Mith242]

Thanks for the link to that article. I know switchgrass is something my state has been looking into.

[carolinadude9409]

California takes on Global Warming: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/31/glo...g.ap/index.html

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Here's one perfect solution, remove Birmingham, AL from existence. That'd solve the problem.

[Jasoncw]

If cars were made significantly lighter, and if mass transit was seriously set up (along with better city planning), then I think the amount of fuel needed would be small enough to use those alternative fuels.

Also, more than half of energy use comes from buildings (if I recall right), and that could be reduced a lot by well designed buildings.

Consumers should like all of that because it means that they can save a lot of money. I think it's just a matter of waiting until a daring company with a lot of money acts on this.

What would be nice is if North America exported more than we use, then we'd be richer as a whole. I can't even imagine the massive amounts of money that have gone to the middle east for their oil. It's astronomical.

[FromCityToRural]

Lighter cars? I thought people wanted safety, too. You take away more structure of the cars to lighten them, you have less safety. Then you have safety nazis yelling at you, even if the treehuggers are on your side. Of course, they could take away less necessary stuff such as insulation, but then you'd have a vehicle that's less competitive than the one before, and sales of new vehicles probably would dip for a while as buyers sought out older models anyway.

How about promoting diesel and gasoline direct injection motors here? With an influx of these, you could probably save 15% on overall oil consumption without a perceivable shift in anybody's habits, even the automakers. I'm no environmentalist, but this idea is so painless to implement that it's absolutely stupid not to do it.

[runawayjim]

Lighter cars? I thought people wanted safety, too. You take away more structure of the cars to lighten them, you have less safety. Then you have safety nazis yelling at you, even if the treehuggers are on your side. Of course, they could take away less necessary stuff such as insulation, but then you'd have a vehicle that's less competitive than the one before, and sales of new vehicles probably would dip for a while as buyers sought out older models anyway.

How about promoting diesel and gasoline direct injection motors here? With an influx of these, you could probably save 15% on overall oil consumption without a perceivable shift in anybody's habits, even the automakers. I'm no environmentalist, but this idea is so painless to implement that it's absolutely stupid not to do it.

more diesel would be better... but we also need otehr non-emission fuels.

lighter cars does not mean necessarily smaller or less safe, but more cars like the yaris and the civic and less like the escalade, the crown vic, and the town car.

[FromCityToRural]

The Crown Vic and Town car are actually capable of some pretty good gas mileage, some can touch 30mpg on the highway with judicious driving, though 25-28mpg freeway is more typical. There's a whole passel of vehicles from not only America, but also Asia and Europe that get equivalent mileage to cars in the Crown Vic class. For instance, our '00 VW Passat wagon with AWD wasn't really good for any more than about 25-27mpg on the highway, and got 22mpg average.

Last I checked, the Civic and Yaris were small in fact, the roofline on the rear doors of the Yaris is just way too low, I ducked my head down way further than I thought I needed to getting in...and still hit it on the c-pillar. The front seat, pulled as far forward as my Dad could comfortably sit, still touched my knees sitting in the back seat. I don't think it gets much smaller than the Yaris. I'm still glad we didn't buy that car. I'm not sure why anybody would buy a Yaris when the Corolla gets nearly as good gas mileage and has so much more room (well, relatively speaking, anyway), more options, and doesn't have the gauges in the freakin' middle of the dash.

[runawayjim]

The Crown Vic and Town car are actually capable of some pretty good gas mileage, some can touch 30mpg on the highway with judicious driving, though 25-28mpg freeway is more typical. There's a whole passel of vehicles from not only America, but also Asia and Europe that get equivalent mileage to cars in the Crown Vic class. For instance, our '00 VW Passat wagon with AWD wasn't really good for any more than about 25-27mpg on the highway, and got 22mpg average.

Last I checked, the Civic and Yaris were small in fact, the roofline on the rear doors of the Yaris is just way too low, I ducked my head down way further than I thought I needed to getting in...and still hit it on the c-pillar. The front seat, pulled as far forward as my Dad could comfortably sit, still touched my knees sitting in the back seat. I don't think it gets much smaller than the Yaris. I'm still glad we didn't buy that car. I'm not sure why anybody would buy a Yaris when the Corolla gets nearly as good gas mileage and has so much more room (well, relatively speaking, anyway), more options, and doesn't have the gauges in the freakin' middle of the dash.

some people like really small cars that get superb mileage. if i were to go toyota, i'd go camry (because i think it's pretty nice looking) or matrix because it's got AWD and it's a wagon. but yes, the corolla gets awesome mileage and is a pretty good car and will last forever.

as for the european cars... they're just not as reliable as they used to be and the engineering quality isn't as great... especially with the VW/audi lines, nevermind the ford owned volvo and jaguar and the GM owned saab.

[suburban george3]

Almost any car can blow past mileage estimates if maintained well and driving "judicously." My '05 Durango just returned from a trip to Columbus, OH where I averaged almost 22 MPG in pretty much highway driving (I know, a car would have gotten closer to 30) but the rating on this vehicle is like 17-18 tops for the highway. My mom's old 85 Caprice Estate wagon frequently got 25-27 mpg on staight highway trips.

But as far as lighter, smaller cars being less safe? For the most part I say "hogwash!" With advances in designs and passenger protection today's small cars offers much more occupant protection than even some of the largest vehicles of the 60's and 70's (remember metal dashboards, stiff steering wheels, hard plastics, and no shoulder belts?) I would much rather be in an accident in any small car built today as opposed to some of the larger boats of yesteryear. (Don't get me wrong though, I am a car buff and do miss those old boats!)

[Jasoncw]

There are very light and super strong plastics and stuff that are around. I don't think they're exceptionaly expensive either, but I think there would need to be a lot of machinery changes at the factories to do this, and that might be, so it might only be initialy expensive. I know there's at least one great material for use in cars because I watched a show about the dependency on foreign oil/sustainability issues/environmental problems, and this showed someone who had developed one and was trying to get it used by manufacturers, and it wasn't a pie in the sky type of show either, it all was convincingly practical.

Then there's the synthetic spider web material that scientists have been working on for a while. It's supposed to be mega strong and mega light, but I don't know how far they've gotten on that.

[FromCityToRural]

Plastic? I don't think so. Nothing could be more unnerving than riding in a plastic car. IMHO there's already more than enough plastic in today's cars. Besides which, plastic is a petroleum product, is it not?

[Jasoncw]

These types of plastics are strong though. Plus, you don't tell people that it's made out of plastic, you tell them about the milage.

Plastic is a petroleum product, but you only have to make it once.

In general though, I think we should use less plastic in packaging. I'm definitly not a pro or anything, but I think glass and metal would be better, since you can recycle it better. The only thing though, is I wonder if the oil used for the extra energy needed to manufacture and ship the different material is more than what it would be just to make it out of plastic.

Then there's the smaller wasteful things, like how Americans use the disposable grocery bags instead of using the same cloth one like the europeans do. Using the disposable ones is more expensive and more harmful to the environment. I think it would be worthwhile for, say walmart, to have some kind of campaign for that. They could sell bags at the end of the checkouts and they could have some signs about being environmentally friendly. Then they'd make money off the cloth bags and save money not making the plastic ones, and their image improves as well.

[runawayjim]

These types of plastics are strong though. Plus, you don't tell people that it's made out of plastic, you tell them about the milage.

Plastic is a petroleum product, but you only have to make it once.

In general though, I think we should use less plastic in packaging. I'm definitly not a pro or anything, but I think glass and metal would be better, since you can recycle it better. The only thing though, is I wonder if the oil used for the extra energy needed to manufacture and ship the different material is more than what it would be just to make it out of plastic.

Then there's the smaller wasteful things, like how Americans use the disposable grocery bags instead of using the same cloth one like the europeans do. Using the disposable ones is more expensive and more harmful to the environment. I think it would be worthwhile for, say walmart, to have some kind of campaign for that. They could sell bags at the end of the checkouts and they could have some signs about being environmentally friendly. Then they'd make money off the cloth bags and save money not making the plastic ones, and their image improves as well.

what do you think is used to power the recycling plants taht metal and glass go to?

[tamias6]

1. Tax incentives to more fuel efficient vehicles. Tax the stuffing out of gas guzzlers.

2. Mandate more fuel efficient vehicles.

3. State and Federal funding to install mass transit systems.

4. Convert heavily used freeways into toll roads, then use revenue to fund construction and mantainance of mass transit options.

5. Urban Planning changes to discourage low density developments such as sub divisions, big boxes, and strip malls, and to encourage medium and high density developments.

6. Green belts to surround urbanized areas to limit sprawl.

7. Revitalize Rail Road infrastructure then have trains ship goods cross country then have trucks take goods from train stations to final destinations.

8. Tax incentives for people that move into the core city instead of surrounding suburbs.

9. Cap on construction of new freeways and new roads. Just maintain what's there. Funds could then be freed up to finance mass transit.

10. All new and renovated habitable structures of all types required to be LEED certified.

11. Massive PR campaign to educate masses on virtues of mass transit and city life.

That's my short list of To- Do's

[bmorescottamanda]

The Crown Vic and Town car are actually capable of some pretty good gas mileage, some can touch 30mpg on the highway with judicious driving, though 25-28mpg freeway is more typical. There's a whole passel of vehicles from not only America, but also Asia and Europe that get equivalent mileage to cars in the Crown Vic class. For instance, our '00 VW Passat wagon with AWD wasn't really good for any more than about 25-27mpg on the highway, and got 22mpg average.

Last I checked, the Civic and Yaris were small in fact, the roofline on the rear doors of the Yaris is just way too low, I ducked my head down way further than I thought I needed to getting in...and still hit it on the c-pillar. The front seat, pulled as far forward as my Dad could comfortably sit, still touched my knees sitting in the back seat. I don't think it gets much smaller than the Yaris. I'm still glad we didn't buy that car. I'm not sure why anybody would buy a Yaris when the Corolla gets nearly as good gas mileage and has so much more room (well, relatively speaking, anyway), more options, and doesn't have the gauges in the freakin' middle of the dash.

That's why you should buy American cars.

[miamivicefan]

My Solution, Ethanol & Biofuels or 85 Ethanol in all of our cars and SUV's, so we can reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

(And let the consumers decide.)

Increase Mass Transit (More Hydrogen, Hybrid or natural gas buses on the Road)

Add Solar panels in our homes.

Revitalize railroad infrastructure.

[miamivicefan]

Smaller cars aren't always an option for all families... even the now "politically incorrect" SUV has a group of users who actually use the vehicle for it's original design. However, there are alternatives to everyone's choice that needs to be considered.

Maybe the government should offer tax breaks as an incentive to consumers to switch from gas guzzling vehicles to more efficient vehicles. But remember, these vehicles are going to be around for LONG time, cars are lasting longer now and if we all went in and traded our SUV's in them the car dealers will turn around and sell them to someone else.

The average age of the American car on the road is 9 years and getting older. Vehicle scrappage rates are declining as cars last longer now and light trucks are also increasing their time on the road. So, we will not see the death or dismissal of the SUV anytime soon.

Not to mention that the average SUV costs $30-$35K now, so even with higher fuel costs, it doesn't make economical sense to run out and trade. How we drive needs to be what we tackle first as that will have the most immediate impact. We then need to ween ourselves over to more efficient makes and models.

[FromCityToRural]

That's why you should buy American cars.

[kickflipjr]

I think a good mass transit system helps a lot. Also a bike trail network and making a city "bike friendly" help too.

As for driving, I have been able to bring my MPG from 28 to 35. By driving slower and more conservativly. Also combinding trips helps too.

Cars have gotten heavier(for safety) and more powerefull(because everyone needs +200HP) in recent years. I wish more effort was put into fuel economy than into increasing power.