Goose Creek Development

[titanhog]

I keep hearing about the Goose Creek Development that will start soon in south Franklin at the Goose Creek exit on I-65. I've heard rumors that it will be very high end, higher end than Cool Springs, with as much, if not more retail than CS. Rumors of several thousand homes and condo's, hotels, office buildings, and upper crust retail.

Does anyone have any good updated info on this project?

[ATLBrain]

Boyle is developing GC. Their body of work is not of the highest quality. They're also building the Community Health Headquarters in Cool Springs, and it's a standard box. I haven't been impressed with the plans for it. I think compared to its neighbor, Nissan, that building will just blend into the surrounding suburban blight.

[cheeriokid61]

I doubt Goose Creek will be any higher end than Cool Springs, because while Goose Creek will Serve Franklin and Spring Hill, which are high end areas, Cool Springs serves Franklin and Brentwood, even higher end. And I don't think it will have more retail than CS. It will have thousands of homes, but I don't think more retail, and definately not more office. I don't even know if it will have any hotels. Maybe just little ones like a Days in or something.

[titanhog]

cheerio...I think you're gonna be surprised. They (franklin officials) are saying it's gonna be higher end than CS. What that means, I don't know, but that's what I heard from franklin officials at a recent meeting I attended.

[titanhog]

Here's some info from the Boyle sight:

http://berryfarmsboyle.com/master/reams.asp

http://berryfarmsboyle.com/master/chadwell.asp

http://berryfarmsboyle.com/master/rural_plains.asp

[frankliner]

The name of the project is Berry Farms. It was touted as a mixed-use, 600 acre, upmarket version of Cool Springs. There are several tributaries throughout the property that were touted as parkspace/greenspace. In fact, I believe 30-40% of the development was touted as remaining "green".

here is a link to the overall masterplan

http://berryfarmsboyle.com/master/conceptual.asp

And a link to the "central area" near I-65

http://berryfarmsboyle.com/master/image_di...ame=Site%20Plan

As you can see, the developers tried to follow a somewhat "New Urbanism" type of development. When they were making the arguments for the project, they touted the under construction development of Westhaven quite a bit. I'll post more things about the project as I find them/think of them. Hope this helps you out!

[titanhog]

That's funny Frankliner...you and I posted the same website only seconds apart!

[frankliner]

here we go, a little something jogged my memory!!

The site has a potential 3.3 million square feet of office and retail space (this is the equivalent of the Galleria and 4 Primus buildings). Although it will be all interspersed, aka no enclosed mall, throughout housing (single-unit and apartment style). I believe there were also plans for 1 or 2 hotels. It will be a major project though and I know for a fact that Franklin is already looking at upgrading the roads in the area as a result and is in the process of extending the sewer out there.

[Hankster]

Frankly, all this makes me want to gag. If it were being developed closer in (doesn't have to be downtown), it wouldn't bother me so much. We need to fill in all the many huge open spaces before we start building farther and farther out, promoting more and more seemingly endless sprawl. Where is it all going to end?

[Lexy]

Frankly, all this makes me want to gag. If it were being developed closer in (doesn't have to be downtown), it wouldn't bother me so much. We need to fill in all the many huge open spaces before we start building farther and farther out, promoting more and more seemingly endless sprawl. Where is it all going to end?

Amen! Somebody stand up to this crap and make a stand. Obviously governments in both Williamson and Rutherford Counties have demonstrated the lack of a backbone. It's time for the people to have theirs. This garbage, and that's all that it really is anyways, is just overkill and a profit monster for some greedy little young developer. It's high time that both counties governments grow a pair and stand up to this crap and demand better for their citizens.

[Boisefan]

oh my, thats huge, but i don't like it at all, it reeks of sprawl, car-fumes, and over-priced housing, but you know Williamson County(actually Franklin i believe, because i think that Franklin annexed Peytonsville....) will never turn down a "master-planned" subdivision, or mixed-use complex

[frankliner]

oh my, thats huge, but i don't like it at all, it reeks of sprawl, car-fumes, and over-priced housing, but you know Williamson County(actually Franklin i believe, because i think that Franklin annexed Peytonsville....) will never turn down a "master-planned" subdivision, or mixed-use complex

I suggest you take a look at Tywater Crossing (a development on the outskirts of Franklin) before you say that...

EDIT-Sorry, I'm stupid and got the names of the subdivisions wrong

[frankliner]

I guess this is in response to many concerns that have been voiced on here. I agree that this development is just sprawl with a cherry on top to make it sweet (bad analogy but I'll go with it). Franklin in the past 5 years has put very stringent regulations on their subdivisions to encourage mixed uses that create communities where people can shop, worship, and eat in their own neighborhoods. New subdivisions such as Avalon, Westhaven, and this Berry Farms are creating a mixed-use environment so as to minimize the use of a car (kinda like the feel of the downtown Franklin neighborhoods).

I think you will find the track record of Franklin's current Board of Alderman to be pretty noteworthy. In my previous post I mentioned one of several subdivisions that Franklin has had the vision to say NO to. Indeed, even Wal-mart has been denied a 2nd location in the city because it was not in keeping the character of the plan developed for the area it was proposed in.

In fact, the current Board actually denied this development on it first being proposed because it was too suburbany!!! They had to come back with a more mixed-use plan that utilized green space and minimized automobile usage. Almost at the same time, the Board was considering a MORATORIUM on all new developments. Although the moratorium failed and this project passed in the end, the fact that there are elected officials in suburban America willing to stand up to this incessant sprawl should be commended. So I ask you, don't just lump us in with Spring Hill or any other suburbs that truly does not turn away development at all and take note that at least one suburb is taking a different path with more stringent standards and expectations.

[rocky top buzz]

If private investors can build it and it will be successful, I have no problem with the development. Couldn't people in Franklin point to development in Davidson county as "sprawl?" After all, Franklin is an old city, so why can't it have infll growth too? Sounds like this is infill growth between Spring Hill and Franklin. Is Metrocenter sprawl? Is Old Hickory Sprawl? Is Bellvue sprawl? After all, shouldn't all these people have been forced to fill in around Franklin first???

Besides, if you look at a map, there's not that much undeveloped space between Franklin and downtown, except for the Radnor Lake area. I don't want 100% infill between Nashville and her suburbs. Having some natural areas other than city parks is nice.

My gut feeling on this is that 2 cool springs type developements will not be sucessful. If this Goose Creek is more like the providence devewlopement in Mt. Juliet, then that might work.

[Lexy]

If private investors can build it and it will be successful, I have no problem with the development. Couldn't people in Franklin point to development in Davidson county as "sprawl?" After all, Franklin is an old city, so why can't it have infll growth too? Sounds like this is infill growth between Spring Hill and Franklin. Is Metrocenter sprawl? Is Old Hickory Sprawl? Is Bellvue sprawl? After all, shouldn't all these people have been forced to fill in around Franklin first???

Besides, if you look at a map, there's not that much undeveloped space between Franklin and downtown, except for the Radnor Lake area. I don't want 100% infill between Nashville and her suburbs. Having some natural areas other than city parks is nice.

My gut feeling on this is that 2 cool springs type developements will not be sucessful. If this Goose Creek is more like the providence devewlopement in Mt. Juliet, then that might work.

But with that train of thought, one has to look at Atlanta. At least that is the model you are suggesting.

And you know what a mistake Atlanta is and is still becoming. There is plenty of land between Franklin and NASHVILLE for this development.

Also, let me clear this up a bit. Infill growth is a term used to describe re-growth within a defined urban area. This piece of land doesn't conform to any part of that description. For example, Adelicia is infill by definition. It was surrounded by urban fabric for a long time and then grows up and into that fabric by utilizing the parameters of the block while getting rid of a parking lot.

[cheeriokid61]

I have a love-hate relationship with this development. I love it, well like it, because it's one of the nicer projects going on in Franklin, could bring more, evidently upscale retail to Franklin, and I know it's wrong, but I kind of like it when Franklin gets these projects. I hate it, though, because the land there is so nice right now, it'll cause more traffic, we don't need the office and retail, I'm fine with only having 1 Cool Springs, and it'll take even more away from Nashville. Overall, I don't really like this project, and the sprawl it causes, but I won't mind seeing what it turns into.

I feel like I'm betraying everyone on this site.

[Lexy]

It's the same way here in Sprawl-erford County. We are getting this stupid thing called "The Avenues" (ohh how splendid) why?? Becasue Murfreesboro WANTS it. Not because we NEED it. That is the driving force behind this. I have seen quite a bit of sprawl in my life, but Murfreesboro and Cool Springs are two of the most disgusting animals I have ever laid my eyes on. And there is no stopping either one of them and that is exactly what scares me the most.

[cheeriokid61]

Well, space will stop them, and Cool Springs is quickly running out of space. The problem is, once it does run out of space, Goose Creek will be in full swing, and there will be now stopping that. It could go to Columbia.

After thinking about it for a while, I'm starting to move towards Lexy and Hankster's side. I think, oh 3.3 million square feet of office and retail in Franklin? That's cool. but then I think that 3.3 million square feet of office space in downtown Nashville could come out to some nice skyscrapers and density where we need it.

The only developments in Franklin I support are the ones in downtown Franklin. And I'm working on that thread RK. It's comin'.

[Lexy]

If Franklin wants to develope its core and surrounding neighborhoods, than fine. I wish Murfreesboro would do that. But if all they want is more tax money and a revenue source that will in turn, degrade the quality and way of life for thousands....then forget it. Find another way to get your tax money Franklin. Don't keep making the same freakin' mistakes over and over. It's not worth it in the long run. Same goes for Sprawl-eesboro. God knows there is plenty that could be done within the core of this pathetic town here. LOL!!!

[titanhog]

I know many wish the retail and office space that are attracted to Franklin would go to DT Nashville instead...and I don't disagree that I would love more and more infill in DT. But...one thing to remember...we may all lump Middle Tennessee together as one big metro area, but truth be told, every city has a right to become it's own little urban area with it's own infill.

I don't like sprawl either, but these suburbs of Nashville are cities that have been here almost as long as Nashville. They can grow up...or out. Some like one, hate the other, and vice versa. It's not all Nashville growing outward, but every town in MT growing outward.

[Lexy]

I know many wish the retail and office space that are attracted to Franklin would go to DT Nashville instead...and I don't disagree that I would love more and more infill in DT. But...one thing to remember...we may all lump Middle Tennessee together as one big metro area, but truth be told, every city has a right to become it's own little urban area with it's own infill.

I don't like sprawl either, but these suburbs of Nashville are cities that have been here almost as long as Nashville. They can grow up...or out. Some like one, hate the other, and vice versa. It's not all Nashville growing outward, but every town in MT growing outward.

That's a good point and I appreciate it very much. I don't necessarily think it should all go downtown, but it doens't have a place almost 30 miles out of the core of the "Main" city. That is just an open invitation to continue the growth out. All I am saying is there is plenty of land around Franklin that is more orientated to Nashville growth for this development. Build it if you want, but not so far out.

And as far as Murfreesboro goes, it's just trying to be something its not. A city. It's still a small town at heart with a big city problem, stupid leadership. It should stick to being a blue collar college town and embrace that and it's HISTORY. LOL!! I am sorry for the rant. LOL!!

[Boisefan]

Well, space will stop them, and Cool Springs is quickly running out of space. The problem is, once it does run out of space, Goose Creek will be in full swing, and there will be now stopping that. It could go to Columbia.

He's right, there is little developed land between Peytonsville and Columbia, it could spread along 840 and 65, and if an interchange is built at Thompson's Station Road(is that even a possibility??) this thing could start a huge cycle of development along 65 and 840, and could possibly spread all the way to Columbia as Cheeriokid stated, developing naturally rural towns such as Thompson's Station into suburban towns. If there is money that can be made, then who knows what could happen....

[Lexy]

Some "towns" were not meant to be developed like they are being developed now. One good example is Spring Hill. In a planners eyes, that should stay a small town and not be steered in the direction of fast, uncontrolled growth. But look what's happening. If stuff starts going down 840, that may well be one of the biggest mistakes this region has ever made.

[frankliner]

He's right, there is little developed land between Peytonsville and Columbia, it could spread along 840 and 65, and if an interchange is built at Thompson's Station Road(is that even a possibility??) this thing could start a huge cycle of development along 65 and 840, and could possibly spread all the way to Columbia as Cheeriokid stated, developing naturally rural towns such as Thompson's Station into suburban towns. If there is money that can be made, then who knows what could happen....

Boisefan, that is exactly where developments are starting to go. Thompson's station is just now starting to build large-scale subdivisions (Tollgate) and "superchurches". The sad thing is, the county had GREAT opportunities to stop this problem. Back in the late 1990s, several county and city of Franklin officials went to Montgomery County Maryland and in the 2000s to Charleston South Carolina to look at their growth models. In Montgomery County (a suburb of DC), they have a growth model that leaves 50% of the county for rural uses and restricts further residential development. Williamson County has studied potential fixes to our growth problems but we really lack leadership on the issue at the county level. However, at the city level, there has been a concerted effort to create direct purchases of green space and programs (ex. Transfer of Development Rights, TDRs) that would be an incentive to landholders to get compensation for their land while maintaining conservation easements on their land. Sadly, many of these programs are coming along much too slowly to match the astounding rate of development the city and county are witnessing. Ironically, though, it is only the city of Franklin that is taking the lead on maintaining a semblance of rural/open spaces in the entire county...

[Boisefan]

oh ya, Spring Hill, its a mess, they didn't have the infastructure(roads) to support the population that they had when i lived there(3 years ago) and they wont untill TDOT decides to fix it. Maybe it'll be soon, because they went for a drive down there, and it scared the heck out of them. But it is way out of control, and will be until there is a build out, and the way things look, that might not be for a while.

Trust me, stuff will start going down 840 when it fully complete, and things will just get worse from there(eps. since most of 840 is in Williamson County)

I noticed that, good for them, but i highly doubt any highrises will be in the future for anywhere near the old grid(the most practical place)unless the car dealerships are sent out to Cool Springs, and a larger grid can be laid out.