Goose Creek Development

[Lexy]

I hate to admit it Boisefan, but you're right.

Frankliner, they should have went to Lexington, KY. They have one of the most scenic landscapes in the east and their PDR's are some of the most succesfull in the ocuntry. Would have been the perfect model for them to study.

[frankliner]

I hate to admit it Boisefan, but you're right.

Frankliner, they should have went to Lexington, KY. They have one of the most scenic landscapes in the east and their PDR's are some of the most succesfull in the ocuntry. Would have been the perfect model for them to study.

Although Lexington is quite beautiful, the situation in Montogmery County actually fit Williamson County almost perfectly. The county is a very upscale suburb of a major city that had faced growth problems a couple of decades before Franklin's leaders went there to study their solutions. Still, nothing has come out of it due to a lack of leadership on the issue, mostly because people are quite a bit more petrified of encountering the property rights arguements in Williamson.

[Boisefan]

if it is about 840 that i am right, you can go down 31 and see signs of growth, its 4 lanes, has a high school, and a mixed use development, with more to come, and i hope that they don't build superchurches like they did in Brentwood, or Franklin, that is just to big. As for 840, people were pretty worried about 840 making Nashville into an Atlanta type area, and they were right to worry, because thats how i see it turning out.

[frankliner]

if it is about 840 that i am right, you can go down 31 and see signs of growth, its 4 lanes, has a high school, and a mixed use development, with more to come, and i hope that they don't build superchurches like they did in Brentwood, or Franklin, that is just to big. As for 840, people were pretty worried about 840 making Nashville into an Atlanta type area, and they were right to worry, because thats how i see it turning out.

Yeah, Tollgate is the development right in front of the high school (Independence). There is another major development going in right after you take a left at the 4-way stop sign in Thompson's station but the name escapes me.

The first superchurch is already happening, 4th Avenue Church of Christ which previously was in downtown Franklin announced several months ago that they were moving out to Thompson's station and building one. Although the city of Franklin tried to slow the process down, by contesting that Thompson's Station was infringing on their UGB, the ballot question just passed in the recent primary elections back in May.

Not necessarily related but interesting, the old Methodist church in downtown Franklin that was used as a Civil War hospital is also moving out of downtown to build a superchurch somewhere in Franklin. Supposedly they will keep the historic sanctuary for special occasions and possibly one service. With these major moves, look for some serious redevelopment initiatives in the downtown Franklin area in the next few years.

[cheeriokid61]

Yeah, the movement of both churches, particularly the Church of Christ, will cause MAJOR controversy. Last time a major church left downtown Franklin, it literally split the city in two. And if you think what is going on in Spring Hill and Thompson's Station is bad, just wait. There will be another 1100 home Tollgate-like development on the other side of the interstate from Tollgate. Also coming will be a major recreation center, another Kroger, a huge shopping area with a Lowes and many other un-announced projects. Also, many more hundred plus home neighborhoods lining Duplex Road and other rural two lane roads in Spring Hill, and the mother of all sprawl developments...you guessed it. A WalMart Supercenter. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Spring Hill has more than 30,000 people by 2010. That's not exaggerating at all. And none of this is connected to Goose Creek. There's a lot of land to develop in Southern Williamson County.

[ATLBrain]

Perhaps Ann Roberts should cast her watchful eyes on Franklin (j/k).

Cheerio, you're probably right about Spring Hill. Also, I've been astonished by the projections for Smyrna, Lavergne, and Mt. Juliet for 30K too. Those towns used to be the sleepiest little burgs on the outskirts. Haven't been to them in a long time, but I'm sure I'd be astonished by their rampant, commercial suburban growth.

I assume you mean that the population of Franklin was "split in two" by taking sides on the departure of the church from downtown. LOL

[Justiceham]

Perhaps Ann Roberts should cast her watchful eyes on Franklin (j/k).

Cheerio, you're probably right about Spring Hill. Also, I've been astonished by the projections for Smyrna, Lavergne, and Mt. Juliet for 30K too. Those towns used to be the sleepiest little burgs on the outskirts. Haven't been to them in a long time, but I'm sure I'd be astonished by their rampant, commercial suburban growth.

I assume you mean that the population of Franklin was "split in two" by taking sides on the departure of the church from downtown. LOL

Ann Roberts Actually, Smyrna already has 36,000 residents. La Vergne will continue to see unprecedented growth due its proximity to Nashville and cheap tax rates. I also believe that Mt. Juliet will continue to see growth because there are still a select few who want the larger and more private lots.

[cheeriokid61]

I assume you mean that the population of Franklin was "split in two" by taking sides on the departure of the church from downtown. LOL

lol Yeah, I wasn't around when it happened, but this was back when Franklin only had like 10,000 people. Many people thought that it was good they were moving, because they needed to expand, and many people hated to see them leaving the historic downtown church. That's what friends from that time have told me, at least.

[frankliner]

lol Yeah, I wasn't around when it happened, but this was back when Franklin only had like 10,000 people. Many people thought that it was good they were moving, because they needed to expand, and many people hated to see them leaving the historic downtown church. That's what friends from that time have told me, at least.

Well, there have been several church moves out of downtown in Franklin. The People's Church out on 96 used to be downtown (used to be called First Baptist when it was downtown). Christ Community Church now on Hillsboro Road actually took over First Baptist's old complex in downtown for a few years and then moved to their current location. The most controversial move that I have heard of was the First Presbyterian church. The main church moved to the location on Franklin Road. However, some people wished to keep the old downtown church as a Presyterian church and actually were forced to raise the money to buy it themselves. So there's a short history of superchurches for Franklin, lol

[titanhog]

OK...I'm starting to see what you're talking about. It's pretty sad to watch beautiful farmland be dotted with McMansions.

I like what someone said about Montgomery County MD and their growth pattern. Williamson Co. needs to set aside some green space before it's too late.

[cheeriokid61]

Franklin has several city parks, but what it needs is plots of land designated so that they have to stay a farm. Not a city park. I would actually rather see a farm with horses and cows than a farm with people.

[Boisefan]

I agree, hopefully they keep the farm on Mack Hatcher the way it was. I actually suspect for Spring Hill to have 35-40,000 at least by 2010, based onmy persception of the current growth.

[rocky top buzz]

That's exactly how I fill Titanhog. Each city can choose to do as they and their voters see fit.

Lexy, you say the Avenue is coming because Murfreesboro wants it and not that the city needs it? Are you saying that Murfreesboro taxpayers will be subsidizing the businesses located in the Avenue shopping center? I don't believe that is the case. The consumer demands these types of projects, and I think it's great! Keep more shoppers in Rutherford County.

I also disagree that Atlanta is a mistake. If the suburban sprawl had been combined with commuter rail (maglev, not steel wheel), I truly believe Atlanta would be the perfect example. People can get out of the city, have a nice house with land, and live the American dream. To go to work, just catch the high speed train into downtown. I haven't completely given up hope on this, but the fact that suburban communities have not even allowed MARTA to expand means it's doubtful anytime soon.

[Relient J]

Lexy, you say the Avenue is coming because Murfreesboro wants it and not that the city needs it? Are you saying that Murfreesboro taxpayers will be subsidizing the businesses located in the Avenue shopping center? I don't believe that is the case. The consumer demands these types of projects, and I think it's great! Keep more shoppers in Rutherford County.

rocky top buzz, I totally agree with your analysis. The companies that have signed on to locate their shops and restaurants in The Avenue wouldn't have made the committment if they didn't believe it would be good for their company to locate there. The fact that The Avenue Murfreesboro is appreciably bigger than any other Avenue project Cousins Properties has developed so far indicates to me the strong growth that Murfreesboro has had and is projected to have in the future.

[Boisefan]

now, if Atlanta had developed like that, it definatly would not have been a mistake, but i don't see that happening anytime soon in Atlanta, or Nashville, unless the commuter rail is a sucess.

[nashvillwill]

Slighty off topic(but not to far), I was wondering. When will 840 be completed? Not the entire loop, but the Williamson Co. end that is broken. Sorry, I'm just pretty far away, and tend to forget about it. Any info?

[rocky top buzz]

840 is projeted for completion in 2012. But they might as well project it for 4839 because that things never going to be done! I think it will be a great route for traffic going from Memphis to Atlanta, or trucks crossing the state.

[Lexy]

RTB and Reliant J, we can just agree to disagree on just about everything you said and are going to say on here. I have strong emotions against sprawl and some on here happenes to like it (why I don't know but to each his own). I just happened to be very opposed to it, seeing as how it promotes unhealthy lifestyles and poor living conditions in the long run. Murfreesboro and this stupid waste called The Avenues stands for everything I hate about this area. Enough about that though.

And if you think Atlanta isn't a disaster, go talk to an educated urban planner and you would certainly hear different about that. It is a disaster with a thousand little towns and cities doing their "own thing". There is no cohesivness (sp???), no grid, no consistancy of services, the list goes on and on. Not to mention that the metro is pretty much automobile dependant, and that chokes the city. But that is the price you pay for poor planning and massive sprawl. Have fun driving in Murfreesboro ten years from now. God knows mass transit will hardly be an option there. Decent mass transit that is.

And about 840, the northern leg of it has been scrapped. It's not getting built seeing as how it is a waste.

[Relient J]

It is a disaster with a thousand little towns and cities doing their "own thing". There is no cohesivness (sp???), no grid, no consistancy of services, the list goes on and on. Not to mention that the metro is pretty much automobile dependant, and that chokes the city. But that is the price you pay for poor planning and massive sprawl.

Just so I understand your viewpoint, how would this "master planning" be achieved, and by whom? You seem to be advocating a system of government that is very centralized and controlling (please correct me if I'm wrong), something that I definitely oppose. Smyrna, Georgia should act in the best interest of its citizens, not in what's best for Atlanta or for the metro area in general, just as Murfreesboro should not be beholden to Nashville's desires.

[Lexy]

Just so I understand your viewpoint, how would this "master planning" be achieved, and by whom? You seem to be advocating a system of government that is very centralized and controlling (please correct me if I'm wrong), something that I definitely oppose. Smyrna, Georgia should act in the best interest of its citizens, not in what's best for Atlanta or for the metro area in general, just as Murfreesboro should not be beholden to Nashville's desires.

Not central government, but a plan that is metro wide and will in effect....tie in the different cities in a way that promotes better growth patterns, etc. etc.. Not just random subdivisions and shopping centers placed to and fro on the virgin countryside like they do in Murfreesboro and Rutherford County.

[Relient J]

^ But again, who would draw up this plan, and what would enforce it? It still sounds centralized to me.

[Lexy]

^ But again, who would draw up this plan, and what would enforce it? It still sounds centralized to me.

Representatives from the cities would meet together and draw up a plan that is beneficial to everyone and there would be no need to enforce it per say. If everyone can agree on it and, (being the city leaders) are the ones who help steer development, they would in turn be abiding by the agreements by developing their cities in a generalized fashion. This idea of enforcement is a bit extreme. Just the same as the United States Government has treaties and "unwritten" laws that they abide by on a global scale....the same would apply here to these municipalites. A general growth plan for a small piece of civilization. Not a mass reform of the government. I think you are thinking to hard about this, or perhaps reading too much into it. This is not a model of Socialisim, but a model fro growth. I know it seems like the Russian language in this part of the country, but there are communities that have done this in the past.

[Lexy]

For example.

I am the mayor of Murfreesboro. I decide to meet up with the mayor of neighboring Franklin and decide together what the best growth patterns for our two growing communities would be. How would it affect the FUTURE of our community (and in case you have forgot...Nashville is a part of that community) so their needs would need to be addressed too. This agreement would be carried out through PDR's and Zoning laws etc. Developers would no longer control the governments decisions about development. They would have input and ways to make changes and adjustments, and even appeal. But they would not be able to build a 150 lot subdivison in the middle of the RURAL county like in the past.

Me, being the mayor, would be able to oversee this development pattern and make sure it is carried through properly. Again, this has some flexability and all (it isn't totally concrete). But it adds a foundation for the future. Not a short term cash infusion.

[frankliner]

Representatives from the cities would meet together and draw up a plan that is beneficial to everyone and there would be no need to enforce it per say. If everyone can agree on it and, (being the city leaders) are the ones who help steer development, they would in turn be abiding by the agreements by developing their cities in a generalized fashion. This idea of enforcement is a bit extreme. Just the same as the United States Government has treaties and "unwritten" laws that they abide by on a global scale....the same would apply here to these municipalites. A general growth plan for a small piece of civilization. Not a mass reform of the government. I think you are thinking to hard about this, or perhaps reading too much into it. This is not a model of Socialisim, but a model fro growth. I know it seems like the Russian language in this part of the country, but there are communities that have done this in the past.

If you look at urban development across the world, most countries use regional development authority to guide developments around a city in order to minimize sprawl (especially Europe). In fact, Nashville has a regional development authority (the Greater Nashville Regional Council), we just don't give it much power at all. Here is their website if anyone is interested.

http://www.gnrc.org/mission.htm

[Relient J]

Lexy, my intent is actually not to put words in your mouth, but to press to really find out what your alternative to the current situation would be. Though we disagree pretty sharply on these issues, I very much appreciate your answering my questions. You believe I'm reading too much into the issue, but I tend to believe that when you give politicians and inch of power, they take a mile.

I do look at this as a separation of powers issue and don't want leaders from other cities and counties influence where neighborhoods and shopping centers are placed in Rutherford County. Frankly, I think that should be more market driven.