A Case for Changing SC's Annexation Laws

[sonofaque86]

I've never heard anybody claim to be from Forest Acres. LOL. They probably would say Columbia, hell, they even got Columbia addresses

[Spartan]

^ Me too. I hope this bill makes it out of comittee. I think it could be made better by removing the stipulation about 25 voters. What purpose does that serve? Its not the number of people so much as it is the volume of land in these holes. But its still a step in the right direction.

[Charleston native]

The funny thing about that is that Forest Acres itself should be a part of Columbia. The last line of the article is pretty funny, as most Forest Acres residents will more than likely identify with Columbia, particularly to outsiders.

If only people did that for Chas in the north city and on James Island! Indeed, I have hardly ever seen a business or residence that actually uses Forest Acres as its address. My church, North Trenholm Baptist, also claims Cola, yet it sits right inside Forest Acres city limits!

[Spartan]

^Forest Acres doesn't have its own zipcode, which is part of the reason for that. I think most people tend to identify with the city in their mailing address moreso than the actual location.

[krazeeboi]

If only people did that for Chas in the north city and on James Island!

Actually, most of the people I know that are from N. Chas will say that they are from Charleston. When asked which part, they will then specify N. Chas. At least that's been my experience.

[Charleston native]

^ I have seen that for the most part, but lately, N. Chas has been REALLY trying to emphasize its independence from its sister city. There is a "Welcome to North Charleston" sign on the coliseum, the Chas Area Convention Center is referred to as a N. Chas one, the mayor proclaims how the new WTC will benefit North Chas and SC, and a few of the car dealerships such as Jones Ford and Gene Reed continually announce their north city location (the north city is even printed on the cars they sell). Many other businesses and residents do indeed announce Chas as their location, but there is a strong, old school mentality in some people who still say they live in a separate city from Chas.

Now James Island residents are even worse. Some of the ones even in the city limits of Chas will write their address as James Island, but the zip code, 29412, is a Chas zip code. There's some real inconsistency here.

[Spartan]

I've never heard anyone say they are from James Island unless the conversation was already on Charleston. Same goes for North Charleston. N Chas can try all it wants, but it will never be anything more than a suburb of Charleston.

[Charleston native]

^ Maybe I'm just ultra-sensitive to it.

[krazeeboi]

^ I have seen that for the most part, but lately, N. Chas has been REALLY trying to emphasize its independence from its sister city.

You mean its mother city.

I can understand some of the examples you listed, as the municipal location needs to be made known in some cases just for the sake of accuracy.

[Greenville]

I've never heard anyone say they are from James Island unless the conversation was already on Charleston. Same goes for North Charleston. N Chas can try all it wants, but it will never be anything more than a suburb of Charleston.

While Charleston will always be Charleston, nobody can deny the fact that North Charleston is in a prime position to make a name for itself. Having the convention center, arena, airport, and a lot of the growing industry and retail in the Charleston metro area gives N. Charleston some advantages that Charleston does not have. Plus, it has plenty of land to expand (that is much cheaper than on the Charleston peninsula). Although it isn't likely to ever overshadow Charleston, I could certainly see a "twin cities" setup occurring within the next 20-30 years.

[Spartan]

I disagree. I don't have time to explain why in any detail rigiht now. Sooner or later Charleston is going to open up the floor for more office development near downtown.

[krazeeboi]

While Charleston will always be Charleston, nobody can deny the fact that North Charleston is in a prime position to make a name for itself. Having the convention center, arena, airport, and a lot of the growing industry and retail in the Charleston metro area gives N. Charleston some advantages that Charleston does not have.

This is a valid point, but I think that in the minds of most people, all of this will still be connected with the mother city. Maybe if the city were named something other than "North Charleston" it would be in a position to really stand out. But as is, most people actually consider themselves to be in Charleston proper when in North Charleston, although they are aware of the municipal distinction.

[GvilleSC]

This is a valid point, but I think that in the minds of most people, all of this will still be connected with the mother city. Maybe if the city were named something other than "North Charleston" it would be in a position to really stand out. But as is, most people actually consider themselves to be in Charleston proper when in North Charleston, although they are aware of the municipal distinction.

I agree with the name situation. Unlike when people say "Greer", very few probably know where they are talking about, but North CHARLESTON kind of gives it away...

[sonofaque86]

Legislature should let town's draw borders

DO YOU LIVE in Forest Acres? Are you sure?

There are lots of little holes in Forest Acres. You could live on a block that

Edited April 15, 2007 by sonofaque86

[Charleston native]

I love this quote from the article:

Weak annexation laws are one of the very best ways to keep local affairs messy. Another is to create lots of

[krazeeboi]

That last quote is spot-on. Home rule is such a joke in SC.

[MikesLogic]

Indeed. It's all about the system and keeping things as-is.

[kayman]

That last quote is spot-on. Home rule is such a joke in SC.

Lawmakers, as a general rule, have never wanted cities or counties

[krazeeboi]

I am very much pro-local control because it make lawmakers on all levels more accountable and makes government very efficient.

But it dilutes the power of the Legislature, and we can't be having that, can we? [/sarcasm]

[kayman]

But it dilutes the power of the Legislature, and we can't be having that, can we? [/sarcasm]

Yeah, it does. But what does a legislator from another district have any business orchestrating the lifelihood of any governmental service half away across the state? That seems to be our biggest problem with state legislators involving most important bills in Alabama.

That is the reason why mass transit has major funding issues in our state because rural legislators kill every bill brought to the floor.

This sounds like the same thing is occurring here involving the annexation bills, rural legislators are whole-hearted against it.

[krazeeboi]

Yeah, it's interesting that although our states are mostly urban now (in terms of development patterns and population density) and have been for some time, a rural mindset still persists. But I can actually say that I see that changing in SC, very slowly, but surely. At least we don't have one behemoth dominating the entire state like Georgia does; that makes for some nice political tangling over there.

[breed]

I took the liberty of contacting David Rusk, the author of the report that spurred the creation of this thread. In addition to doing studies that encompass all of SC's central cities, he also did studies on Greenville in particular and he graciously supplied me with this information. Gsupstate, you say you want numbers? I've got some that will last you for a lifetime.

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Greenville_case_study.htm

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Appendi...xpenditures.htm

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Appendix_B_revenues.htm

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Appendi...portability.htm

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Appendi...xport_ratio.htm

http://www.geocities.com/antical79/Appendix_C2_LY.htm

At the risk of ressurecting the dead horse that's been beaten for so long...

...there's a key point that this misses. The focus on annexing commercial properties is not well documented here. It classifies as business taxes (business licensce fees, property taxes, etc.) as coming from residents. While that is technically true, non-residential taxes are a burden placed on the patrons of those non-residential residents. Based upon property taxes, business license fees, and accomodations taxes, non-residential taxes contribute almost half of the city's revenues.

The general rule of thumb that I've heard is that unless a residential unit is worth more than $200k, it uses more services than it pays in taxes. I'm sure that exact figure varies from city to city though. I am guessing that fiscally responsible cities would have studied what that threshold is for their own city.

It would be interesting to see how much of other city's revenues are generated by commercial businesses.

Edited April 18, 2007 by breed

[erm1981]

I think Greenville would definetly benefit the most if the annexation laws were loosened. Charleston and Columbia would benefit also, but Greenville is about half the city population of those two.

[Spartan]

Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson would all benefit greatly. I still maintain my arguement that Greenville, while it would certainly benefit, would have more competition with Mauldin and possibly Greer. It would depend on how the laws are changed to truely determine anything.

My issue isn't so much that the legislature gets in everyone else's business, but that its done for what I can only assume is spite- and that they won't cede some power to the executive branch that should be there anyway.

[krazeeboi]

Here's an article in Orangeburg's daily about the challenges that the city of Orangeburg and other municipalities within the county face concerning annexation. The article gives you more of a small town perspective. It lets you know that the "big boys" in the state aren't the only ones suffering.