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The Vue: R.I.P.


cdarr

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I thought that the Parking Authority would have picked one of the taller projects, since the project being replaced had been a 28 story building. From the story, it sounds as if some of the other project leaders felt that there was a bias towards Turley. I would be interested in knowing how each graded out for each separate criteria and not just the total. Does anyone know if any of the criteria were weighted higher than the others? Does anyone know what the highest score obtainable was? I know that a number of people on this site are very big on tall buildings, even if they are not warranted in a certain area. How are the feelings that the least expensive, five story buiding was chosen? What chance do you think that any of the other projects will be built on other open sites nearby? As mentioned, there are several open lots further south on Main that may be available. The link to the story is below:

http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/sto...ml?surround=lfn

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Although I am not really excited about the Turley, 5 story blah project, it does seem to be the most feasible, IMO. We have other buildings downtown that are empty. They need some attention, as well. There are 3 other projects that can go either by the Orpheum Theater, The Greyhound station site, and maybe directly in front of the Pyramid ( the two eyesore surface lots). My favorite site is the GreyHound Station site. You have Autozone park directly across the street and the it is in the midst of the Entertainment District. I think a nice hotel would be ideal for such a site. I think the 28 story project would be nice for the site near the Orpheum Theater.

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I e-mailed them heres his reply

"Thanks for your thoughts. We picked the less exciting project for three

basic reasons. First, we believe the project is financed and ready to

go (versus the others which range from not- financed to maybe-financed).

Second, the project we decided on fits nicely into the New Main block

from an architectural and historic perspective. Third, while we, too,

were excited about the hotel project proposals, we judged the subject

buildings were too big for the small 110 South Main site, and that given

the severely restricted street and traffic conditions surrounding the

site (no car traffic allowed on Main, Gayoso on south side is only 30'

wide, etc.) operating a big hotel would be challenging.

The good news is we're going to look for other, more appropriate sites

for the hotels. Hopefully, we'll be successful. And by the way, at 11

a.m. this morning developers will announce that a 250-room Hyatt Regency

will be built as a part of the One Beale project (which will also

include 150 condos and office space).

With 28,000 people now living Downtown, some 70,000+ working in the

area, and millions of visitors annually, Downtown is coming back. It's

not easy, and things don't happen as quickly as I'd like, but hang in

with us. It will happen!"

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I e-mailed them heres his reply

"Thanks for your thoughts. We picked the less exciting project for three

basic reasons. First, we believe the project is financed and ready to

go (versus the others which range from not- financed to maybe-financed).

Second, the project we decided on fits nicely into the New Main block

from an architectural and historic perspective. Third, while we, too,

were excited about the hotel project proposals, we judged the subject

buildings were too big for the small 110 South Main site, and that given

the severely restricted street and traffic conditions surrounding the

site (no car traffic allowed on Main, Gayoso on south side is only 30'

wide, etc.) operating a big hotel would be challenging.

The good news is we're going to look for other, more appropriate sites

for the hotels. Hopefully, we'll be successful. And by the way, at 11

a.m. this morning developers will announce that a 250-room Hyatt Regency

will be built as a part of the One Beale project (which will also

include 150 condos and office space).

With 28,000 people now living Downtown, some 70,000+ working in the

area, and millions of visitors annually, Downtown is coming back. It's

not easy, and things don't happen as quickly as I'd like, but hang in

with us. It will happen!"

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That's a fair response. I really hope they can build at least one more of these projects. We need a lot more apartments downtown. The Bristol and the Ballpark apartments (whatever they're called these days) recently sold with the highest per unit price in Memphis.
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I think this project is just the right size for the area. I would like to see more towers go up in between downtown and midtown. I do believe that Main Street should be opened up to one lane of traffic in each direction though. Whoever had the bright idea to completely shut it off from traffic are the reason its hard for businesses that aren't on a corner to stay open. We live in a car based society. Besides, I've been to cities that share tight streets with streetcars and light rail. Memphis even pulls it off along Madison Avenue. This would give the area more visibility. People who don't actually walk along Main don't have a clue to whats going on down there.
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I agree with mandrws that we will probably see more construction fill in the area between downtown and the medical district. I think it is only logical for this to happen. As for residential towers, they will probably stay within viewing distance of the river. Downtown is landlocked. I am know there are opportunities to expand north, but I think that is years away. To the south, there are a bunch of people who want to live downtown, but expect downtown to be like the suburbs and protest everything proposed that go against their suburban ideology!!!

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I agree with mandrws that we will probably see more construction fill in the area between downtown and the medical district. I think it is only logical for this to happen. As for residential towers, they will probably stay within viewing distance of the river. Downtown is landlocked. I am know there are opportunities to expand north, but I think that is years away. To the south, there are a bunch of people who want to live downtown, but expect downtown to be like the suburbs and protest everything proposed that go against their suburban ideology!!!
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Seriously. We need some architectural height downtown. We have street-life that is ahead of the curve [at least in several large areas inside the core city] compared to other SE cities of similar size. We've got the clubs, bars, food, music, etc that I would never trade off or even consider altering for a couple of pretty high rises. But most folks around this forum and Gene Carlisle himself [as quoted in the recent CA article] are willing to admit that buildings play a defining role in civic identity. I agree with his comment on the matter:

"We truly believe that buildings define who we are as people, communities and neighbors...We lack the physical buildings that say we are a great city, and I think this project will help us do that."

Memphis' recent architectural endeavors are not exactly in touch with Carlisle's sentiments evident in the quote above. We're not askin for a brand new suit, only a new pair of shoes. I haven't seen any renderings for the 5 story building chosen for Main St.,but it feels like we didn't even get a clean pair of socks. I think it's an underachievement setting a bad precedent but still I'm waiting to be proven otherwise.

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http://www.downtownmemphis.com/domain/news...l/thisweek.html

About halfway down on the left, there is a rendering of the Vue's replacement. It does have a nice look to it. I think it will go very well with much of the rest of the Main St. architecture.

I thought that the CCC was looking for a 4-5 story parking garage (probably about 500 or so spaces). This project is providing only 215. I suppose that when you subtract the number of apartments the Vue had, you can lose quite a few spaces. Still, I'd assume that about 1/3 of the project is parking, and that seems like a large cost for the developer. I guess that the CCC may reimburse the developer some way for public parking, but, figuring 1.5 spaces (off-the-cuff number) for each apartment and at 96 units, that would yield 144 spaces for the apartments. 70 public spaces seems a bit thin. Hopefully more details will come in short order, and things will be clearer.

The best thing I can say about this project is that it is much less likely to fizzle like the Vue did, even if some of it looks to me like it wouldn't make sense to the developer or the CCC. And though there was probably some political favortism to Mr. Turley, he knows the downtown market as well or better than anyone, and was building downtown before downtown was "cool." He's one of the few bright lights among Memphis area developers who did not give up on the most vital area of town. I agree that this project seems rather myopic for such a visionary, but I'm hoping he knows something I don't know.

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Seriously. We need some architectural height downtown. We have street-life that is ahead of the curve [at least in several large areas inside the core city] compared to other SE cities of similar size. We've got the clubs, bars, food, music, etc that I would never trade off or even consider altering for a couple of pretty high rises. But most folks around this forum and Gene Carlisle himself [as quoted in the recent CA article] are willing to admit that buildings play a defining role in civic identity. I agree with his comment on the matter:

"We truly believe that buildings define who we are as people, communities and neighbors...We lack the physical buildings that say we are a great city, and I think this project will help us do that."

Memphis' recent architectural endeavors are not exactly in touch with Carlisle's sentiments evident in the quote above. We're not askin for a brand new suit, only a new pair of shoes. I haven't seen any renderings for the 5 story building chosen for Main St.,but it feels like we didn't even get a clean pair of socks. I think it's an underachievement setting a bad precedent but still I'm waiting to be proven otherwise.

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It seems many people here are disappointed at the lack of vision and the loss of oppertunity to add to the Memphis skyline and give the downtown area a true urban feel which can be lacking. Turely won the votes of the DPA and CCC. No one can change that. But maybe some people would like to voice their opinion to Turley's company. It may not change anything but at least they would hear the desires from parts of the community on what the citizens and other peolpe who want to see Memphis grow in the right direction really want and desire. We must voice our opinions because I'm sure a company like Turley's may not even know about a forum such as this. We need to tell them There are a lot of good discussions of what downtown could be.

So if you'd like to meil the Henry Turley company, email them here: [email protected]

Website: http://www.henryturley.com/

Maybe ask them why the space at Gayoso and Main is so lacking in boldness and vision. And maybe express your opinions on what you would like to see in downtown. Give them something to plan for in their next development and tell them to build an iconic building like One Beale that changes and adds to the Memphis skyline. And tell them about this forum so they get a sampling of some very good discussions, directions, and desires from a lot of people with the best wishes for the Memphis area. If we do so, maybe what happned with the 5 story spot on Main and Gayoso will not happen again. . . we can only hope.

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  • 2 weeks later...

the only reason this proposal was taken over any others was b/c of the corruption in all phases of government here. Outsiders seem to be frowned upon and so turley was chosen....surprise surprise.....it's sad one of the larger projects couldn't have been built at this site....no matter what though, anything is better than a big hole in the ground!

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In today's Commercial Appeal:

Downtown site just one of many

Its disappointing that this project was chosen and it looks as though there was lots of biasism in the decision. There are alot of parking lots downtown and hopefully the other projects will come through.

What we learned:

  • CCC is looking for cheapest/safest proposal, not daring/prestigious

  • There are atleast 3 highrise proposals currently looking for locations

  • CCC isn't immediately concerned about the need for more hotel rooms

You think that they would be more concerned about getting major events downtown then filling a hole.

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  • 2 months later...

I was just thinking about this project recently. When I first read about why they chose Turley, one of the reasons was because his project was the most financially sound and would get off the ground quicker. Since the time CCC choose this project I haven't heard anything about it. Is it still in the design stage? Has there been any advertising for this project? Has Turley done anything? I feel that if one of the other teams were chosen at least some type of word would be spread.

I am not underestimating Turley, but I figured he would at least let some type of word spread about what is going on.

I still wish they hadn't chosen Turley to do this project. He is not a visionary. I really like what he did with Harbor Town, but he needs to stay away from urban redevelopment because I just don't think he has what it takes.

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I was just thinking about this project recently. When I first read about why they chose Turley, one of the reasons was because his project was the most financially sound and would get off the ground quicker. Since the time CCC choose this project I haven't heard anything about it. Is it still in the design stage? Has there been any advertising for this project? Has Turley done anything? I feel that if one of the other teams were chosen at least some type of word would be spread.

I am not underestimating Turley, but I figured he would at least let some type of word spread about what is going on.

I still wish they hadn't chosen Turley to do this project. He is not a visionary. I really like what he did with Harbor Town, but he needs to stay away from urban redevelopment because I just don't think he has what it takes.

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Perhaps Turley's vision of Harbortown is a bit outdated. I say that because it's not truly urban, resembling more a well-planned suburban sort of environment. It lacks the integration of retail-commercial with the residential part of the development. It lacks public transportation. I doubt if it's particularly "green" either.

That's not saying Harbortown is bad at all, just that what it is is a 1980's version of new urbanism.

The Main site would be entirely different if for nothing else, its location I think.

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To add a little bit to my last post, I really like Harbor Town. It is truly amazing. I am not taking any credit away from that project because it has received so much attention from across the country, the same way Seaside has down in Destin, which I feel is a similar project. I like the idea the Turley saw mud island as more than just a desolate mound of sand. He saw a planned community in there that would give memphians a feeling of being somewhere else the same was disney world takes you back to another time and another place. In this regard Turley is incredible. I am not sure that his south bluffs gate community has the same effect on people.

The place I feel his talent lacks is in urban infill. If you look at a fellow name Tony Giarratana in nashville, you will see a visionary. From what I understand when he first came around and started constructing buildings people thought he was nuts. Now nashvillians think of him as a king. His projects are aesthetic and visionary. He has seen a need for creating projects that will boost nashville into the future. It seems as if memphis sees opportunity to keep us exactly where we are right now, I feel this is also evident in the south bluffs residents voting against the tennessee brewery project because it might hamper their views. All I can say about that is, "get over it you are not in the suburbs".

All in all, at the end of the day I am glad that we at least have something being built there to encourage foot traffic along main street. Maybe some one will take fearlessv's idea and encourage street vendors and other street life similar to what you see in New Orleans. Also, I hope that downtown will keep pushing for high-end retail along south main and that street becomes something similar the Soho area of new york.

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The place I feel his talent lacks is in urban infill. If you look at a fellow name Tony Giarratana in nashville, you will see a visionary. From what I understand when he first came around and started constructing buildings people thought he was nuts. Now nashvillians think of him as a king. His projects are aesthetic and visionary. He has seen a need for creating projects that will boost nashville into the future. It seems as if memphis sees opportunity to keep us exactly where we are right now, I feel this is also evident in the south bluffs residents voting against the tennessee brewery project because it might hamper their views. All I can say about that is, "get over it you are not in the suburbs".
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