This about sums it up...

[Randy@Tacoma]

So something urks me. I want to know why the Coyotes, and the Cards, have their venues so far outside of Phoenix. It seems like developments like Westgate, are in direct competition with Downtown Phoenix. I for one am a very big fan of Phoenix. I'd love nothing more right now, than to see construction projects, and high rises going up all over downtown and uptown Phoenix. But it seems like all the perimeter cities, are competing just as hard for the attention Phoenix should be getting.

Let me tell you guys a story. It's about a city called Detroit. Detroit used to be one of the foremost cities in the country, well on it's way to being one of the vogue cities of the world. What happened to Detroit? Well some say the decline of the auto industry killed it. But I'll go toe to toe with anyone on that. While Detroit lost more than half the residents it had at its peak, It's metropolitan area trippled in size, Metro Detroit continues to gain population even today. Detroits decline was political. In the first half of the 20th century, Detroit, and subsequently southeastern Michigans population exploded. In fact Detroit's population grew so fast, it got so powerful, the state of Michigan passed laws in the 1920's making it virtually impossible for the city to annex anymore land, thereby limiting it's power. The 1950's saw the beginnings of white flight. The cities in the country had grown urban and dense. The African population started migrating to the north for the good jobs, the residents of the cities, given the social climate at the time moved outside of the cities. The same was true of Detroit. The 1960's were a time of great civil upheaval. The climate of the country was changing. Race riots broke out in cities across the country. Detroit saw the worst of them all in July of 67'. Four days of intense rioting left people dead all over the cities east side. The federal gov't sent troops into an American city for the first time effectively declaring it a combat zone. This accelerated the cities population decline to unheard of rates. From 67' to 70', 300,000 people moved out of the city. At this point, banks would not give mortgages to people who wanted to buy homes in the city, because insurance companies refused to insure homes within the city limits. They reasoned it was to unsafe. Detroit's population decline spiraled out of control, the city lost so much of its tax base, it couldn't afford to keep street lights on. Everyone moved to Detroits suburbs. The money and businesses relocated to the suburbs, so much so that the major sporting venues were located in the suburbs. Now the city of Detroit sits on a tipping point of resurgance. 50 years after it's started decline, the city has a chance to maybe comeback, recapture some of it's golden years when it was one of the most revered American cities. But now the power and money for Detroit sits respectively outside of it's borders. Most people in America, regard Detroit as one of the poorest blighted places in the country if not the world. But if you cross the line from Detroit, into Oakland County, you will step into one of the wealthiest places in the US. All the premier designer shopping. Exclusive stores that exist only in places like LA and NYC, five start hotel rooms. Some of the worlds largest corporations. Detroits beholden suburbs, have effectively walled themselves off from the city, and try to pretend like it doesn't exist. They are in a political war with Detroit, trying to attract the same development money that the city so Desperately needs. So the city waits, and it's future remains unsure, because the people who live within minutes of it, refuse to help it.

LOL, ok sorry for that. Do I think Phoenix will ever have the problems that Detroit does? Not in a million years. However when you go to Chicago, you drive down Michigan Ave. You are in one of the worlds premier most fashionable districts. When you drive down 5th ave in New York you are awe struck by the scenes. You have to drive a halfhour away from downtown Detroit to find the same kinds of things. My concern, is that with huge things like Westgate attracting venues like Glendale Stadium. Developing things designed to make them the premier destination in the valley. Downtown Phoenix really must struggle to attract development it needs to develope a healthy city center. If things keep going this way, the way they have been going. I fear a little bit of political tensions in the region, and with that you get stalemate. Stalemate will cement this area into mediocrity. Phoenix, could very much remain unrespected by the main stream, and largely unheard about in the media. In that aspect, the region would have one big problem in common with Detroit. But how do you convince the movers and shakers in the valley to sign on and invest, where it could really help the city?

This lovely synopsis from MJLO was really interesting to me. I came across it in something revolving around Phoenix.

I would like peopple's thoughts/feelings/emotions/etc.

:-) Thanks!

[dtown]

as far as i know, most of what he said is true.

[Michi]

Yes, it's true, but do you want comments about Phoenix or Detroit?

I'll start...

First, the one thing that I would contest is that you can find the same things in Chicago and New York in Detroit's suburbs. You can't. I think I know what you mean (in terms of amenity) but the experience of suburban Detroit is just that...suburban.

How this relates to Phoenix: modern day boom towns will not develop like the boomtowns of yesterday. The automobile already has our country by the balls and isn't letting go. The way to grow the economy where there is abundant land available (Phoenix and suburban Detroit) is to expand your transportation system (roads) and build around that. This, on top of the many points that MJLO is why Detroit is the single-most largest failed market in the country.

Why is that? It's because of the complete opposites of what Detroit IS (or was) and what modern-day growth means today (the paragraph I talked about above...expanding the suburbs). To ellaborate, Detroit's maximized potential was reached before the prominence of the automobile and thus it's infrastructure reflects that. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to take an entire city, built around the density transit allows and "remake" it into a suburban market. If the city still had transit, maybe it wouldn't be a failed market, because its commercial infrastructure would still be serviced.

But that's not the case. Commercial strips are dead, and the parts of them that are active have been remodled to allow more than enough parking by destroying many of the buildings around them. In addition, these stores, buildings, etc service a poor population, so they aren't properly cared for, need added security, and don't work well with the old streets and abandonment adjacent to them.

Phoenix has the right idea by implimenting transit. Try splitting up the bus system there (one for the city and one for the suburbs) and see how effective that would be. THEN, try and reverse that, propose rail transit, and you have the uphill battle that Detroit has been fighting for years. As MJLO mentioned, the suburbs won't listen because their interests have nothing to do with Detroit's.

[MJLO]

haha I just found this. I wasn't trying to make a solid comparison, Phoenix and Detroit are complete apples and oranges. I was simply venting that Phoenix's suburbs seem to receive more investment $ and premier destinations than they are worth. It kind of reminded me ( on a much smaller scale) The divide between Detroit and It's burbs.

Sorry guys, no disrespect intended on the D.

[Randy@Tacoma]

I wasnt trying to put you out there MJLO.... I just thought it was a powerful statement wisely worded! I liked it. I really hope Detroit keeps moving in the right direction for the sake of the colony!