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shrek05

Phoenix Metro Retail

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Every other forum has discussions on retail, why not Arizona? Retail, I think, is one of the best ways to make your mark/place in the national scene. The best cities have the best retail, and it spirals down from there.

With all these new lifestyle centers underconstruction in and around Phoenix, what are you hoping will come to the different suburbs, or the region in general? Phoenix has been named several times as the one of the biggest markets for retail right now (right after LA). There are several centers under construction right now, including...

One Scottsdale (Scottsdale Road and Loop 101, northeast corner)

Palisene (Scottsdale Road and Loop 101, northwest corner, to 56th street)

CityNorth (Loop 101 and 56th Street, northeast corner, bordering Palisene)

Mesa Riverview

Tempe Marketplace

Zanjero District at Glendale

Westgate Shops in Glendale

San Tan Village

Currently, in terms of luxury retail, Phoenix is dragging behind many of the nation's most prominent cities. Obviously New York, Chicago, Boston, and LA all have better retail. But we are also behind Atlanta, Miami, Honolulu, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Dallas and Houston.

But we are quickly gaining ground. What would you like to see around? My wife has friends that work at Westcor and here just a few companies coming to the valley by 2008 (though not official, there have been rumors of verbal confirmation and successful talks).

Biltmore is undergoing a huge renovation. After completion in Thanksgiving, CH Carolina Herrera and Salvatore Ferragamo are supposedly opening up shop there. Hermes at Fashion Square.

In terms of the new developments in Scottsdale, Palisene is where Barneys NY is looking (opting out of Robinsons-May location at Fashion Square). I was rather surprised Bloomingdale's chose not to open there as it was one of their top-selling stores. Dior, Prada, Chanel are also in talks for Palisene.

But what about the rest of the valley, and Tucson? Tucson has nailed with its second major retailer. After St. John opened at La Encantada, Tiffany and Co is also slated to open this fall. Louis Vuitton is in talks for Arizonas second store in Tucson, or thrid if talks confirm to open a full-line (ready wear) store in noth Scottsdale.

Nordstrom is in talks to open its third store in the Valley out in Glendale. They are also trying to nab a Crate & Barrel, Williams-Sonoma and Pottery Barn.

Supposedly many residents near Mesa Riverview are upset with the retailers that have signed on. Thinking they would get a Kierland Commons, they are getting the exact opposite.

Not sure if I am the only one knowledgeable about Valley retail on this site, but it says a lot about Phoenix that all these stores are looking to open. Just keeping you informed.

If you know anything about other districts, please tell me! I haven't been that up-to-date on centers outside of the Eastern Valley.

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Tucson's not really a shopping city. Most of us frequent thrift stores and Target for our threads. The fashion-conscious have Old Navy.

La Encatada is pretty swanky. I've been up there maybe three times, but only for AJ's, and I'm always disgusted with how much they want for things and end up only with maybe a bottle of root beer. That particular mall absolutely typifies the ideological and sociological divide between the Foothills and the Basin.

The Valley has some great shopping. A couple of friends here went there about three weeks ago just to shop, then went up again last week to return things. A lot of my friends also make Ikea runs every once in a while.

There's a lot of money there, and I'm surprised that the high-end retailers haven't jumped on that sooner (they're usually such sharks about it). And you're absolutely right, Phoenix is still far behind other cities with lower Metro pops in this respect.

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Just came across this site and thread, so thought I'd add my two cents worth:

As most of you probably know, retail is all about demographics. Phoenix will get more high-end retailers when the local demographics are strong enough to support them. However, at the moment, the Phoenix metro area has a lower per-capita income compared with metro areas of similar size (e.g., Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, etc.) Much of this has to do with the fact that Phoenix has very few corporate headquarters, which means significantly fewer high-income households. And Tucson has even lower wages than Phoenix, and the retail choices there reflect that fact (although Tucson does draw some wealthier shoppers from Mexico).

Interestingly, certain smaller metro markets have an inordinately large number of luxury retailers, often due to large numbers of well-heeled tourists. That is certainly the case here in Honolulu, with a metro population about the same as Tucson's, but with most of the name-brand stores found in L.A. or Chicago, as we attract many high-spending Japanese tourists. It's also true for Las Vegas, with a metro population about half the size of Phoenix but with similar resident demographics: due to the huge number of tourists there, they have more than 20 luxury retailers still not found in the Phoenix area.

Although is Phoenix is growing rapidly, I have my doubts that the three large luxury shopping centers slated for north Scottsdale--CityNorth, Palisene, and One Scottsdale--will all be successful. The developers of those centers admit that they're all going after the same retailers, and being so close together, they won't all be filled with high-end stores. And even if many new retailers do show up, they won't all survive (I remember years ago when The Borgata was first built--initially, stores like Yves St. Laurent and Gianfranco Ferre came in, but they didn't last, as the market was not yet deep enough).

Yes, more well-heeled retirees heading to Scottsdale will certainly help, but if you want more high-end retail options in the Valley and Tucson, you had better hope that the area attracts more corporate headquarters with their legions of highly-paid executives and expense-account visitors. Then perhaps you won't have to head to Vegas or L.A. for your fix of high-end shopping!

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I would tend to disagree with you on that point. I am an outsider looking in, and Metro Phoenix, is much more cosmopolitan than you give it credit for. I am by no means a fan of the residents here. But I know they can support high end retail. The only thing is, there is already high end retail in Scottsdale, so this would seem to me as over saturation of the market.

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And even if many new retailers do show up, they won't all survive (I remember years ago when The Borgata was first built--initially, stores like Yves St. Laurent and Gianfranco Ferre came in, but they didn't last, as the market was not yet deep enough).

Yes, more well-heeled retirees heading to Scottsdale will certainly help, but if you want more high-end retail options in the Valley and Tucson, you had better hope that the area attracts more corporate headquarters with their legions of highly-paid executives and expense-account visitors. Then perhaps you won't have to head to Vegas or L.A. for your fix of high-end shopping!

Yes, that is the huge problem with Phoenix, the huge lack of major corporations. THe entire metro has what, four fortune 500 companies?

But many things have changed since those days where luxury retailers had tried Phoenix. I also remember when Bally opened at the Scottsdale Galleria, but at the time in the late 80s early 90s, Phoenix didnt have the luxury market. Obviously YSL and Ferre could not have survived then, I stil dont know if YSL could sustain a store in the Phoenix metro. But what I do think is the major brands could survive here. Perhaps not young-geared brands like Dolce or Chloe (though Burberry is having great sales), but those that target the middle aged would definitely do well here.

The Scottsdale location of St. John is one of the highest selling stores in the states. Tiffany's also does amazingly well in Scottsdale (among its top 10 grossing stores). The Scottsdale LV carries the widest selection of LV items after major markets like Chicago/NYC/LA/SF/Las Vegas/FLorida and Hawaii. I think its long overdue for Chanel or Versace to open doors and step into the market. Dior also has potential.

But it says a lot about Phoenix when Escada, Tiffanys, LV, and Gucci are all thinking about opening second stores in Scottsdale when major areas like Houston and Atlanta only have one store.

The only thing is, there is already high end retail in Scottsdale, so this would seem to me as over saturation of the market.

Heh, Scottsdale pales in comparison to most major markets. Of course, it reflects that we are only the 14th largest metro area. Yes, we have the major retailers like LV, Gucci, Burberry, Hugo Boss, but we are missing the more exclusive stores that only establish/settle in major cities. Bloomingdale's (much less expensive than Neimans and Saks) hesitated at opening in Phoenix. Even though the metro could definitely support it, its still reluctant to open in the area. As to why, I do not know.

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wow I was reading this, i thought i'd bring it up to the top. Any new cool retail news I'm missing?'

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The thing with this state, and especially Phoenix, is that new retail centers go up so often that it's not really news to anyone. At least I don't really think much about them even when I see some enormous lot or a sign advertising a new Home Depot or something.

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I agree. I also think it's only a matter of time before, as homebuilders have. Retailers over saturate the market and it has to make a correction.

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British grocer plans stores in Arizona

So it's fresh and easy?!

Any thoughts?

I give this place 2 years max if it happens at all. The profit margin on supermarkets, especially in AZ, is too thin to support the overhead required to make an overseas expansion. Silly limeys.

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I dunno, Tesco is a british retail Giant, they are worldwide, only slightly behind Walmart in Revenue. The only reason I know anything about them, is because a couple of years ago, there was a rumor that they were thinking about buying Midwestern retail Giant, Meijer. They definately have the $ flow to weather the storm of building a name for themselves. They were looking at Meijer because it's privately owned, and is well established in it's market, it's the original supercenter concept that the big ones Target / Walmart base their supercenters on. It's also the reason that Walmart hasn't been able to dominate the Immediate Great Lakes region. I think they have a fighting chance simply for the fact that they are so big.

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I dunno, Tesco is a british retail Giant, they are worldwide, only slightly behind Walmart in Revenue. The only reason I know anything about them, is because a couple of years ago, there was a rumor that they were thinking about buying Midwestern retail Giant, Meijer. They definately have the $ flow to weather the storm of building a name for themselves. They were looking at Meijer because it's privately owned, and is well established in it's market, it's the original supercenter concept that the big ones Target / Walmart base their supercenters on. It's also the reason that Walmart hasn't been able to dominate the Immediate Great Lakes region. I think they have a fighting chance simply for the fact that they are so big.

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City North could get $100 million in tax rebates

City north, going in at loop 101 and 56th st. Could get rebates and incentives for what they are putting in. From the sounds if it, this place is designed to be a national draw. I wish there were some kind of renderings of what the developers had in mind. Urban in Nature is all I know.

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Wow, this is awesome.

In planning a trip I was reading about West Village in Dallas (http://www.westvil.com) and I know there are other "New Urbanist" communities within cities out there. I'd like to see more detail as to what exactly this development is going to entail.

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that is awsome. It's new urbanist, but it's also in an "urban" setting. All of our new urbanist stuff is in the middle of old cotton fields.

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Bloomingdales Considering Arizona Location.

With all of these high end shopping centers popping up, Federated Dept. Stores owner of bloomingdales is considering a valley location, but with all of these choices of where to put it, the only question becomes, Which side of north Phoenix or Scottsdale should it go?

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I think CityNorth or One Scottsdale are the best bets for a Bloomies, but One Scottsdale more. The demographics near One Scottsdale are much more impressive than CityNorth even though they are only like 2 miles away from one another.

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Do you think there is a market to have both of these so close to each other, both catering to the same demographics?

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Westcor plans SW valley mall, they are presenting plans to the Goodyear city council today. Westcor officials believe that outdoor lifestyle centers will be the way of the future. They definately have appeal. But you're not going to catch me chilling at one on July18th at 2:30pm. Good lord.

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"Estrella Falls"...

What's the deal with these water names? Don't people realize that we're in the desert.

Speaking of water, I read a really grim picture of water shortages today. It sounded a little doomsday-esque, but was predicting shortages during peak usage within 5 years. Stop leaving the faucet on when you brush your teeth, Matt!

But I'd like to see this. Not just the outdoor mall, but a major retail center in that area. They certainly need one because it beats all those people driving north to Arrowhead.

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406228713_2f15a48fd6.jpg

With all the talk about "retail in Metro Pheonix" I had to post this. This is a facade alone Monroe. Abandoned store fronts, and buildings in decay. To me it's a shame that in the nations fastest growing Giant city, with a vibrant, albeit economy on fire, that the cities core looks like this. Downtown Phoenix is little more than a joke. It's a joke from a skyline perspective, it's even worse at street level. Cities 1/8th its size blow it out of the water. Why have the residents of the valley left the city center alone? Why is it so bad amidst tens of billions of dollars of developement and economic growth, does the city still have to finance it's own hotels and convention center. Why are the gothic buildings downtown not taken care of? Phoenix cannot rival the monoliths in Detroit, but it has a suprising collection of small neogothic high rises, and they all pretty much sit in disrepair, abandoned, like everything else in this valley, for the new. Hopefully things like Cityscape, and the proposed entertainment district, can help turn it around. It's time for the residents of the Valley to take some pride in downtown. Downtown, is a cities signature, the stamp the rest of the world can Identify, and right now Downtown couldn't hold a can to a city a third it's size.

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Is that Newman's bar open? I'll have to check that out next time I'm up there.

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You're right though. Even Tucson's Downtown has more activity (although Tucson has a tiny Downtown).

I think it's one of the Catch 22s of the Sun Belt, or at least the New West: you have a city growing to the point where the older part of the city gets forgotten as development focuses on their frontiers and fringes, but, on the other hand, you're seeing tremendous growth.

Hopefully in-fill will start to really take off with some of these great projects going up Downtown.

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One thing I never saw as lacking in the Phoenix metro was retail. Scottsdale specifically is lousy with the stuff. I mean...what's missing? Is it condensed and centralized like my beloved Portland or Seattle? No. But it's there.

Seriously...what retail does PHX metro NOT have? I admit I'm not a shopper so maybe my viewpoint is toally skewed.

PS...I love the train and say full speed ahead to the train peeps.

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Phoenix metro has everything. That's not the issue. The issue is, everyone is so focused on building box stores in Buckeye, and Gilbert, and they have all forgotten downtown, and the cities signature. It's identity has been all but lost.

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