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cityboi

Will Charlotte ever have a second outer loop?

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Some cities have two loops. Will Charlotte ever have a metro loop connecting the cities of Rock Hill, SC, Monroe, Concord and Gastonia?

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I believe there was a conceptual plan for it many years ago....it is unlikely it will ever be built in entirity, but I believe a few sections will be built (I believe a piece in SC is the one most likely to happen)

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The SC route you speak of is dead for the moment. A friend of mine works on an advisory group for the member counties, and right now they can't get their act together to agree on how the road should be put together.

So...no, not at the moment.

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Charlotte does have two loop roads. I-485 and I-277. They were known as the inner loop and outer loop when proposed. You are talking about a 3rd loop road.

It's doubtful that it will ever happen and that is a good thing. They tried for a while to get part of I-485 canceled, but there was too much political pressure from developers and the state to go ahead and finish it.

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The SC route you speak of is dead for the moment. A friend of mine works on an advisory group for the member counties, and right now they can't get their act together to agree on how the road should be put together.

So...no, not at the moment.

are you reffering to the rock hill to monroe highway. all my life growing up in waxhaw there was talk of such a planned highway. needless to say most in old waxhaw were against the idea. but now that waxhaw is a brothel for development, i wonder what the status on this thing is?

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I think it will eventually in some form. Charlotte is underserved in the freeways department and may need it someday.

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For the sake of Charlotte, and it's ever increasing urban core, I would hope that you guys never get a third outer loop. Maybe a onesided bypass but not an outer loop. Outer Loops will only spawn edge cities and will cause traffic to be from suburb to suburb. More companies will locate to where this loop crossing major interstates or state routes. This is a logistical nightmare for regionwide public transportation efforts. A third loop would not pass solely through Mecklenburg, I am assuming, so any hopes of cooperation will further deteriorate.

If you make it too easy for auto travel then what's the point of public transportation?

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its hard to say that 50 years from now another outer loop won't be built or in development. Only 20 years ago people thought weddington, waxhaw, etc were in the boondocks and now they are viewed as not that far away. Hopefully people will be wiser and will have learned the lesson about what outer loops really do by that time.

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I still don't like 485. Granted it was most likely needed, but it also encourages and enables more sprawl. There is NO REASON we need another loop. Traffic really isn't that bad in Charlotte.

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I think as the population of cities like Gastonia, Rock Hill and Monroe grow, a plan could be looked at 20 or 30 years from now but not anytime soon. Traffic would really have to start backing up on I-485 for that to happen. My guess is that it would be something like I-585 or I-885 if it were to ever happen.

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I believe it could happen someday. As stated before, surrounding counties will probably never reach a complete consensus, thus, this project would have to be an act of the state for it to actually break ground. I see another interstate being built through Charlotte in some form or another. Either I-30 or I-27 (as I believe I read someone suggest elsewhere) would help the city economically and would give the much sought after link to Wilmington. However, at the same time you increase the thru-traffic in Charlotte as well. I'd almost like to see an interstate closer to uptown like I-77; this probably wouldn't be aesthetic for the city though. Nothing says "big city" like driving next to a skyline.

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^LOL. You try and commute from Tega Cay to Charlotte everyday and tell me there are no traffic problems. Or, just try and drive 485 toward Pineville during rush hour.

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I would like North and South Carolina to plan ahead and create enough rural roadways to connect communities in the metro area that are outside of 485. It would be foolish to pretend that they won't boom in population over the coming decades.

An interstate, however, would be overkill, and would cause a zooming out of all the tourist maps of the area, which in turn supports sprawl. I believe when the metro area maps are zoomed out, people think that buying far out is not too far out. It wasn't long ago that the maps of Charlotte had Rt 4 as the rough boundary.

I always have thought that the DOTs should continue to upgrade the US highway system to create a point to point network that surrounds the metro area.

For example, continue to upgrade US601 between Concord and Monroe to act as a rural arterial between the two cities outside of 485. Continue to upgrade and improve NC73 between Concord and Lincolnton, to provide access to and from LNK without the need to use 485. Continue to upgrade US321 between Lincolnton and York (of course, much of that is freeway already). Upgrade SC5 between York and Lancaster's panhandle. Then upgrade NC200 and/or NC84 between Lancaster's panhandle and Monroe.

By having the arterial connectors, preferably with some landuse restrictions, it will have the effect of connecting the outlying towns/cities, but by doing this early enough, it will prevent the need for an overburdened system of rural roads, and exurbanites calling for an outer outer outer beltway.

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Years ago there were some plans to build an outer, outer belt. I remember because it was to pass between Hickory and Morganton to the northwest. I couldn't believe they felt metro Charlotte would someday encompass that much land area. The funny thing is...we are well on the way now. I'd say it's a strong possibility in 30 or so years...if we are still using cars at that point.

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U.S. 321 links Gastonia with Hickory, I-40 gets you to Statesville and U.S. 70 takes you to Salisbury. I-85 south to Kannapolis, then U.S. 601 into Monroe...

That's about a 3/5 loop right there, with South Carolina most of what's missing. To the extent those roads aren't limited access (and that route mostly is) you could imagine a day when it would be patched together into a kind of outer loop.

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Heres a suggestion. Instead of buliding an outer loop, How about simply improving road infrastructure between towns and cities around Charlotte. New roads planned through the city could be added at the expense of the developers adding heavy traffic burdens on country roads.

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Heres a suggestion. Instead of buliding an outer loop, How about simply improving road infrastructure between towns and cities around Charlotte. New roads planned through the city could be added at the expense of the developers adding heavy traffic burdens on country roads.

Even though that would be nice, it's probably a pipe dream to us all as the DOt will do anything to save a buck.

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I believe a 2nd loop will happen if NCDOT still wants to build new roads and usage of automobiles by the majority of americans is still popular.

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I think it will eventually in some form. Charlotte is underserved in the freeways department and may need it someday.

I'm with you...

As somebody else noted, 277 is also a loop road. I also think that Charlotte needs more freeways. A good transportation network depends on a large, advanced freeway system in the modern world. What they need more than anything is to WIDEN whats already there. I've never seen such puny freeways in a city Charlotte's size. I 77 should be 4 laned all the way through to SC border, with longer, more advanced exits, and better designed on ramps. I 77 at the I 85 Junction should be widened at least to 5 lanes all the way to the I 277 junction. I 85 at the I 77 junction should be redeveloped (as I think it is) into a much more complex interchange to speed flyovers and thru traffic and relieve the bottleneck. It should also be widened to 4 lanes all the way thru Mecklenburg and to 5 or 6 lanes at the I 77 junction. Cities that depend a large part on being a distribution hub will die without the highway facilities that it demands and it appears to me NC short changes Charlotte in hwy dollars.

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I'm with you...

As somebody else noted, 277 is also a loop road. Charlotte does need more freeways. A good transportation network depends on a large, advanced freeway system in the modern world. What they need more than anything is to WIDEN whats already there. I've never seen such puny freeways in city Charlotte's size. I 77 should be 4 laned all the way through to SC border, with longer, more advanced exits, and better designed on ramps. I 77 at the I 85 Junction should be widened at least to 5 lanes all the way to the I 277 junction. I 85 at the I 77 junction should be redeveloped (as I think it is) into a much more complex interchange to speed flyovers and thru traffic and relieve the bottleneck. It should also be widened to 4 lanes all the way thru Mecklenburg and to 5 or 6 lanes at the I 77 junction. Cities that depend a large part on being a distribution hub will die without the highway facilities that it demands and it appears to me NC short changes Charlotte in hwy dollars.

agree agree agree and yes once more I agree!!!

The problem is the formula they use in dishing out dollars. The NCDOT is more content on paving through a cow pasture down east and spending millions, just to satisfy the stupid formula.

To them it's all about equity.

:angry: To me it is a crock of (fill in your work of chioce here)!

A2

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I'm with you...

A good transportation network depends on a large, advanced freeway system in the modern world...

I've never seen such puny freeways in a city Charlotte's size.

There are larger cities in North America with fewer freeways and lanes. I am moving to Vancouver, Canada in 2 weeks, and one thing I notice went I visited a couple months ago is the lack of freeways. There are no freeways going through the city, and there are no loop freeways. Density and public transportation are key factors in the success of Vancouver. One byproduct of not having a freeway through town is that neighborhoods are not cut off and the city seems more walkable/liveable.

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There are larger cities in North America with fewer freeways and lanes. I am moving to Vancouver, Canada in 2 weeks, and one thing I notice went I visited a couple months ago is the lack of freeways. There are no freeways going through the city, and there are no loop freeways. Density and public transportation are key factors in the success of Vancouver. One byproduct of not having a freeway through town is that neighborhoods are not cut off and the city seems more walkable/liveable.

There may be cities with fewer freeway miles, but I meant cities that I am familiar with personally. As for Vancouver being the "ideal" model of city planning, it depends on what the citizens' idea of desirable is. In America, as in all wealthy civilizations throughout history, "density" is undesirable for the vast majority. People, when given a choice, continue to choose more roominess in living patterns. It is perfectly predictable and desirable and is a hallmark of a wealthy, prosperous society. Americans do not choose "density" and "public transportation" no matter how much the social engineers who idolize whatever propaganda coming from the "sustainable growth" crowd say. The walkable/liveable propaganda is used to beat suburban people over the head with and it is rooted in utopian Marxism and is an effort to subvert capitalism and free market growth; it causes higher prices, pollution, and increases traffic, and I, along with most Americans, oppose social engineering. The reason Vancouver has few freeways is because Canada in general is far behind the U.S. in limited access freeway development. They do not have the equivalent of our cross country interstates. There are many areas of Canada underserved by freeways. A modern city needs to be connected by an advanced highway system if it wants to be a hub. Charlotte's growth and expanding prosperity far outstrip Vancouver or most other Canadian cities, so which one is "sustainable" or "livable" is very, very subjective.

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People, when given a choice, continue to choose more roominess in living patterns.

The problem is lack of choices (all things being equal).

And as I have said elsewhere, the way we live and build today is the result of various complex "social engineering" schemes in American history.

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