Hartford

[runawayjim]

The sheer fact that West Hartford residents will be Hartford residents makes the idea of annexation something positive. Right now Westy's get to hide away in their cute little suburb and have no idea that the only reason West Hartford is so successful is because of Hartford. Forget better response times, how about better public schools, better diversity, more $$$ for after school programs, etc.

I have no idea why you keep harping on the whole density thing. You need to get it through your head that the density will be exactly the same as it is today if annexation occured. The only difference will be where the boundries are drawn. Furthermore, you're bugging out about something that really wouldn't change that much. West Hartford has 65,000 people in about 20 sq. miles and East Hartford around 50,000 in 20 sq. miles. Adding them to Hartford wouldn't all of a sudden turn it into some sprawling suburban hellhole. You're the one involved in the pissing contest, not us.

density of the city of hartford would be decreased. you'd be adding 2 cities with less than half the population of hartford, but more land. how does the density stay the same? but let's forget about density...

the money that you think you would be getting is already going to schools and after school program in west hartford. spreading it out would decrease the quality of those schools, while increasing the quality of the schools in hartford. the only way you can keep the quality of those schools while bettering hartford's poor schools is to increase taxes on everyone, and you know whoever comes up with that idea after annexation will be immediately voted out of office.

again, i think you're trying to ignore the problems hartford has by bringing in 2 towns that work perfectly for themselves. and i truly doubt the people of west hartford have no idea that it's so successfull because of hartford... in fact, i'm sure a lot of those people work in hartford. annexation would be a quick short term solution to a problem that requires more thought and a long term fix. hartford can and will most likely become a great place on its own without annexation, but it does require fixing the current problems. the crime can be stopped, the population can be increased, people can someday find hartford to be a great place... but it's gonna take more than taking over neighboring towns. i think that would help, but the problems will return.

[SOCOM]

density of the city of hartford would be decreased. you'd be adding 2 cities with less than half the population of hartford, but more land. how does the density stay the same? but let's forget about density...

the money that you think you would be getting is already going to schools and after school program in west hartford. spreading it out would decrease the quality of those schools, while increasing the quality of the schools in hartford. the only way you can keep the quality of those schools while bettering hartford's poor schools is to increase taxes on everyone, and you know whoever comes up with that idea after annexation will be immediately voted out of office.

again, i think you're trying to ignore the problems hartford has by bringing in 2 towns that work perfectly for themselves. and i truly doubt the people of west hartford have no idea that it's so successfull because of hartford... in fact, i'm sure a lot of those people work in hartford. annexation would be a quick short term solution to a problem that requires more thought and a long term fix. hartford can and will most likely become a great place on its own without annexation, but it does require fixing the current problems. the crime can be stopped, the population can be increased, people can someday find hartford to be a great place... but it's gonna take more than taking over neighboring towns. i think that would help, but the problems will return.

OK, all I'll say is this...who here has advocated sweeping our current problems under the rug? We're doing a little dreaming here, nothing more. Just because we talk about annexation doesn't mean we are abandoning the city's problems.

With all due respect, I don't think we need advice from someone who has said many times that he doesn't like Hartford, has never been a part of the Hartford metro area, and has very little idea as to what the city is actually like. Forgive me if that sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

[HartfordTycoon]

The city has already come back in my opinion. It's just still early in the process. I've lived here all of my life and the city has never looked better in recent memory. Even when we were considered a boom town in the 80's and had the Whalers there was more blight and crime than today.

[somad]

If Stamford's population doubled, would its sphere of influence increase drastically?

How much of a sphere of influence does Newark have? I think anything that close to NYC will be in its shadow.

[runawayjim]

OK, all I'll say is this...who here has advocated sweeping our current problems under the rug? We're doing a little dreaming here, nothing more. Just because we talk about annexation doesn't mean we are abandoning the city's problems.

With all due respect, I don't think we need advice from someone who has said many times that he doesn't like Hartford, has never been a part of the Hartford metro area, and has very little idea as to what the city is actually like. Forgive me if that sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

i've actually lived for 4.5 years in the hartford metro. i've never found hartford to have as much to do as far as culture is concerned as far as new haven or providence. and i've never found the nightlife to be as good as new haven or providence. so in that respect, no i'm not a huge fan of hartford. i also haven't been there since i left college, which was a few years ago.

that being said, i've always been impressed by the big city feeling of hartford's downtown. and the downtown area has always seemed very clean and safe to me (much cleaner than providence's downtown area). but there was just not much in the downtown area other than the major businesses. i also wasn't keen on how empty most of it seemed at night except the areas around the civic center and the couple blocks of bars right near each other.

no one has specifically advocated sweeping the problems under the rug, but all the talk makes it sound like annexation is an instant fix for the problems. i think hartford woudl be better suited by fixing the problems than by annexation (even if annexation includes fixing the problems).

[jcrc]

i've actually lived for 4.5 years in the hartford metro. i've never found hartford to have as much to do as far as culture is concerned as far as new haven or providence. and i've never found the nightlife to be as good as new haven or providence. so in that respect, no i'm not a huge fan of hartford. i also haven't been there since i left college, which was a few years ago.

that being said, i've always been impressed by the big city feeling of hartford's downtown. and the downtown area has always seemed very clean and safe to me (much cleaner than providence's downtown area). but there was just not much in the downtown area other than the major businesses. i also wasn't keen on how empty most of it seemed at night except the areas around the civic center and the couple blocks of bars right near each other.

no one has specifically advocated sweeping the problems under the rug, but all the talk makes it sound like annexation is an instant fix for the problems. i think hartford woudl be better suited by fixing the problems than by annexation (even if annexation includes fixing the problems).

Culturally speaking, Hartford has the oldest art museum in the country with an extensive collection that is top notch. Hartford has its own symphony, its own operatic company; It has two indie film theaters, it also has Hartford stage and The Bushnell for plays and musicals. I don't know how it stacks up against Providence, but it compares pretty well against New Haven.

[runawayjim]

Culturally speaking, Hartford has the oldest art museum in the country with an extensive collection that is top notch. Hartford has its own symphony, its own operatic company; It has two indie film theaters, it also has Hartford stage and The Bushnell for plays and musicals. I don't know how it stacks up against Providence, but it compares pretty well against New Haven.

the bushnell is probably comparable to the PPAC in providence and hartford stage is more like the trinity rep. so it probably stacks up pretty close to providence, except in the nightlife category... and obviously college basketball... but i'm a uconn alum, so go huskies!

we've got one of the best art schools in the country with risd, so i don't really need to say much more than that about art. i believe we also have an orchestra, but i'm not as much into that, so i'm not too sure on that one (i know new haven does and it's pretty good too).

[SOCOM]

no one has specifically advocated sweeping the problems under the rug, but all the talk makes it sound like annexation is an instant fix for the problems. i think hartford woudl be better suited by fixing the problems than by annexation (even if annexation includes fixing the problems).

Again, no one said annexation is an instant fix nor did anyone imply that. Those are your own words. We are simply dreaming for the sake of dreaming (we all know annexation is a pipe dream at this point). There are a half dozen other threads that deal with Hartford's problems and possible solutions, and just this one that has morphed into a thread on annexation. Hartford has some of the richest suburbs in the entire nation surrounding it, so annexation would certainly be a step in the right direction.

[runawayjim]

Again, no one said annexation is an instant fix nor did anyone imply that. Those are your own words. We are simply dreaming for the sake of dreaming (we all know annexation is a pipe dream at this point). There are a half dozen other threads that deal with Hartford's problems and possible solutions, and just this one that has morphed into a thread on annexation. Hartford has some of the richest suburbs in the entire nation surrounding it, so annexation would certainly be a step in the right direction.

that's debatable. will the annexation of rich suburbs increase the housing costs in hartford or will it reduce the value of the homes? if it were to happen, that's something that would have be very carefully thought out. gentrification is good if done properly... but many times it just tosses people from their homes because they can no longer afford to live somewhere.

[SOCOM]

that's debatable. will the annexation of rich suburbs increase the housing costs in hartford or will it reduce the value of the homes? if it were to happen, that's something that would have be very carefully thought out. gentrification is good if done properly... but many times it just tosses people from their homes because they can no longer afford to live somewhere.

Well it's not like Hartford would annex Avon, Simsbury, or Glastonbury. Hypothetically, we'd be talking about E. Hartford and W. Hartford. W. Hartford is extremely diversified, even though overall it boats some of the highest per capita incomes in the state. There are very moderately priced homes in the south and east part of town, middle/upper class areas near the center and upper class/uber rich areas on the west side of town. E. Hartford is as middle class as they come. Very blue collar, nothing spectacular. People being priced out in the former boundries of the city of Hartford would not be an issue. Right now Hartford's property taxes are insane. With annexation, some of the burden could be taken off the old city residents and distributed more evenly among all residents of the new city.

[runawayjim]

Well it's not like Hartford would annex Avon, Simsbury, or Glastonbury. Hypothetically, we'd be talking about E. Hartford and W. Hartford. W. Hartford is extremely diversified, even though overall it boats some of the highest per capita incomes in the state. There are very moderately priced homes in the south and east part of town, middle/upper class areas near the center and upper class/uber rich areas on the west side of town. E. Hartford is as middle class as they come. Very blue collar, nothing spectacular. People being priced out in the former boundries of the city of Hartford would not be an issue. Right now Hartford's property taxes are insane. With annexation, some of the burden could be taken off the old city residents and distributed more evenly among all residents of the new city.

what are property taxes like in east and west hartford?

if they're less than hartford annexation should not include raising taxes on them while lowering them on everyone else. these are some of those issues that would need to be worked out before it could happen.

[MadVlad]

Well, I for one am done arguing with this guy. Both are pissing matches, plain and simple, end of story....

[SOCOM]

Well, I for one am done arguing with this guy. Both are pissing matches, plain and simple, end of story....

I'm which you.

[runawayjim]

well then... i'm sorry if i bothered some of you with my somewhat negative thoughts on annexation. but i was honestly trying to get you to really think about just how worth it it would be and everything it would entail. i don't really care to get into a pissing contest. and i, personally, prefer more density to the suburban nature of west and east hartford. i've been to cities with lots of people that were not very dense and it wasn't any better than being in the suburbs (atlanta comes to mind). it makes the city less walkable, which, in my opinion, is less of a city (not that i'm calling hartford less of a city). at no point in this discussion did i say that hartford isn't a great place. the last time i was there (and i was wrong before) wasn't all that long ago, i was there to go to one of the bars (i can't remember the name, but it's got 2 or 3 floors club like on one and live band on the third). but that was the only part of the city that seemed vibrant at night. i think they should do more to get more stuff to do in other locations as well.

but i digress from the original issue. i understand annexation is a pipe dream, but you never know what the future might bring. the issues i brought up are real issues that would have to be dealt with if it does happen. i also really think that it would be a mistake if hartford's current problems aren't all solved with long term solutions (and i do realize and fully undersatnd that hartford's comeback has already begun... it's much nicer now than it had been in the past).

[Lone Ranger]

Well, I for one think Providence should annex Pawtucket & Central Falls.

Oh, wait ... wrong thread. Or is it?

[RogerAnthony]

Out of curiosity, how many of you advocating annexation of West Hartford and East Hartford actually live in West Hartford and East Hartford. It is easy to say what should be done if it doesn't affect you personally. Sitting here in my home in Litchfield County I have no problem with annexation, but I think if I still lived in West Hartford I would be strongly against it.

[drc72]

Well, I for one think Providence should annex Pawtucket & Central Falls.

Oh, wait ... wrong thread. Or is it?

What about East Providence?

[Bill Mocarsky]

Out of curiosity, how many of you advocating annexation of West Hartford and East Hartford actually live in West Hartford and East Hartford. It is easy to say what should be done if it doesn't affect you personally. Sitting here in my home in Litchfield County I have no problem with annexation, but I think if I still lived in West Hartford I would be strongly against it.

So annexation is OK just as long as its not in your backyard?

[Lone Ranger]

What about East Providence?

Nah, despite their density, they seem to be happy with a suburban vision of themselves. Providence annexing Pawtucket & Central Falls would be a consolidation of urban areas. It might look a little strange on a map, but hey, look at Cleveland on a map. Look at Detroit.

[runawayjim]

So annexation is OK just as long as its not in your backyard?

it's hard to really think about it until it really happens. but if i lived in west or east hartford and my taxes might increase because hartford annexed my town, i'd be a bit annoyed.

but it's really hard to think about it happening until it actually happens or if you're actually in the position to be possibly negatively impacted by it.

[redbaron]

Out of curiosity, how many of you advocating annexation of West Hartford and East Hartford actually live in West Hartford and East Hartford. It is easy to say what should be done if it doesn't affect you personally. Sitting here in my home in Litchfield County I have no problem with annexation, but I think if I still lived in West Hartford I would be strongly against it.

Annexation, although a great idea will never happen, but growing up in E. Hartford I wouldn't have cared if it was part of Hartford, in fact if people ask where I'm from I say Hartford. West Hartford may have an issue, they like to think they are suburban, and although they may work in Hartford, that is about all they want to be associated with it. Changing Hartfords tax structure, strengthining their schools, and making it safer will have pretty much the same affect, oh and bringing back the whalers (sorry selfish little aside). If the area thought more regionally Hartford would no doubt suceed, at least Rowland for all his flaws helped wake the city up.

[runawayjim]

Annexation, although a great idea will never happen, but growing up in E. Hartford I wouldn't have cared if it was part of Hartford, in fact if people ask where I'm from I say Hartford. West Hartford may have an issue, they like to think they are suburban, and although they may work in Hartford, that is about all they want to be associated with it. Changing Hartfords tax structure, strengthining their schools, and making it safer will have pretty much the same affect, oh and bringing back the whalers (sorry selfish little aside). If the area thought more regionally Hartford would no doubt suceed, at least Rowland for all his flaws helped wake the city up.

from other discussions, it sounds like you need a mayor with a vision.

something providence is doing is called providence tomorrow. it's involving the residents in the planning and development process for neighborhood planning. they had a kick off event a couple weeks ago. it was really good and i think this is the best way to truly push providence forward.

check it out... www.providencetomorrow.org

[SOCOM]

Out of curiosity, how many of you advocating annexation of West Hartford and East Hartford actually live in West Hartford and East Hartford. It is easy to say what should be done if it doesn't affect you personally. Sitting here in my home in Litchfield County I have no problem with annexation, but I think if I still lived in West Hartford I would be strongly against it.

I lived in West Hartford for 17 years when I was growing up, and I may be moving back in the next few months. I'd be for annexation then and I'd be for it now.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of WH residents would be against it, but that's another story.

[jcrc]

from other discussions, it sounds like you need a mayor with a vision.

something providence is doing is called providence tomorrow. it's involving the residents in the planning and development process for neighborhood planning. they had a kick off event a couple weeks ago. it was really good and i think this is the best way to truly push providence forward.

check it out... www.providencetomorrow.org

I was talking to someone who went to Brown. He said former Providence mayor Buddy Cianci who is in jail now did a great job for the city, one of the things he did is he re-routed the highway that cut accross city. How did he managed to do that? Is there a lesson for Hartford there?

[runawayjim]

I was talking to someone who went to Brown. He said former Providence mayor Buddy Cianci who is in jail now did a great job for the city, one of the things he did is he re-routed the highway that cut accross city. How did he managed to do that? Is there a lesson for Hartford there?

hmmm... cianci did a lot, but was also harmful (which is why he's in jail). i don't know when the 195 re-routing was planned, but probably during cianci's term. it's still under contruction.

UP thread on the relocation process.