Belk to purchase Parisian

[gs3]

Uh, no offense but that is Gadsden, a city that is not exactly the wealthiest secondary market in the state. I wouldn't expect a high-end location in a region like that. Honestly, I don't know what Saks, Inc. was smoking when they decided to convert that location from McRae's to Parisian.

[StevenRocks]

Uh, no. I don't care the chain, period. End of story. Honestly, you are right you are wasting your time trying to convince me (and others) otherwise.

[memphian]

To be honest Leonard23 hits the nail on the head. Belk just does not have any cache outside of NC. Their first entry into the Bham market at Riverchase certainly didn't leave anyone in Alabama anticipating their arrival at all the other malls in town. Dowdy fashions and cheap decor - does this sound like a winning formula?

Also, to say that people are too attatched to some entity and won't shop at a replacement is crazy. They won't shop at Belk because they know there is nothing to look forward to.

Here in Memphis Belk is not even attempting to convert the Parisian - instead it will most likely become a Macy's. Belk simply cannot compete with or equally replace a more fashion-forward store. Just like in Chicago where Macy's is struggling something fierce to lure shoppers into their converted Marshall Field's Stores.

On a sidenote... I read somewhere that Pizitz may resurface. Anyone have any information on this? What a time to come back - I am sure the Pizitz family knows quite a bit more about the AL shopper (hell, they've kept Gus Mayer alive for years in Bham and Nashville). I know the store in Nashville has a strong clientele.

[Owsley9]

On a sidenote... I read somewhere that Pizitz may resurface. Anyone have any information on this? What a time to come back - I am sure the Pizitz family knows quite a bit more about the AL shopper (hell, they've kept Gus Mayer alive for years in Bham and Nashville). I know the store in Nashville has a strong clientele.

[davidzLA]

Here in Memphis Belk is not even attempting to convert the Parisian - instead it will most likely become a Macy's. Belk simply cannot compete with or equally replace a more fashion-forward store. Just like in Chicago where Macy's is struggling something fierce to lure shoppers into their converted Marshall Field's Stores.

[mallguy]

To be honest Leonard23 hits the nail on the head. Belk just does not have any cache outside of NC.

[StevenRocks]

Would somebody explain to me why Belk or any store has to be prestigious to get any respect? I don't find Parisian to be the least bit prestigious, but apparently you guys do. I'm not going to judge, because it's personal opinions. Stuff like prestige is subjective; what floats one person's boat may not mean anything to anyone else.

Belk will at least maintain the quaility of the Parisian stores it aquired, if not enhance them. Obviously, as even Parisian proved in smaller markets, not every store will be a glamourous emporium of glittery designer apparel, but such is the business of department stores. They aim for the highest and best in the markets they serve, but highest and best could mean something entirely different from one city to another.

If Pizitz comes back, to the satisfaction of those who want a homegrown department store in Birmingham, that's fine. They'll be entering a market that's slowly but surely racing towrds the bottom and may or may not be able to deliver the store experience they were able to a generation ago.

They could be the start of a trend of new regional stores headquartered in medium to large size cities, and that would be a good thing. They could potentially take out all of their competition, or make that competition work harder for the consumer dollar, and that too would be a good thing.

But the reality is that Pizitiz is going to have a hard time reestablishing a chain with a limited market and limited buying power in a general retail market that favors bigger store chains with more buying power. That's part of the reason Parisian is no more; they weren't biog enough, fancy enough or possesing a broad enough appeal to stand out in the marketplace.

That's also part of the reason that Belk is attempting to grow; it's a big company, but it doesn't hold a national cachet, so it's trying to shore up a broad regional market with stores in seemingly compatible markets. It's a sound strategy, and it could work with enough support. If it doesn't, it's nobody's fault, it's just businesss.

But, after saying all that, I were to disparage them for not making a handful of people happy by saving a name with almost no power outside of its home market, I would feel stupid. Signs aren't going to make or break Belk or any other store: it's the shopping experience. If the shopping experience isn't right, people will not come back.

I sincerely believe that Belk is working hard to make the transition from Parisian as seamless as possible. Some things will change, but I don't imagine that things will get worse, because it's not a smart idea to take over a place just to change what works.

And as a a final note, there's no need to bring Marshall Field & Company into this. Marshall Field's was an innovator, an iconic retailer of the first order. No store in this discussion could even come close to the susutained impact that Marshall Field's had on retail worldwide. When Federated bought May Company, it was primarily for Marshall Field's, which had established itself as a truly strong and powerful regional chain. It was a name that meant something in the industry at large and Chicagoans in general, rather than a specialty retail nameplate that a handful of people are revering mostly because it's gone and they don't like the chain that bought it.

Believe what you will, but don't distort the facts. Belk will pass or fail on its own merits, but the name is thae last thing that will matter.

[kayman]

From the perspective of a common consumer in most large markets that Parisian was in it was a upper-end, prestigious chain. Nashville, Birmingham, and the majority of the Atlanta market's consumers seen the chain up to the level above what the existing Belk locations offers. The current Belk stores in these markets tend to target older demographics with incomes between $30,000 to $50,000 while Parisian stores tended to target $50,000 and up.

If most people outside the Carolinas don't think they have the abilty to sustain that type of pull because their chain is way too all over the place when come to target consumers. Honestly, you can argue this with me or whom ever until your face turns blue, but they honestly don't care for the chain. Most people that have discussed this transition in all these markets mentioned have said they plan on taking their money elsewhere because of the bad first impression of the chain with Riverchase. Belk should have chosen a better way to enter the Birmingham market particularly with a better store format if they didn't want that Riverchase store stigma that sticks with most consumers here.

If Pizitz comes back, to the satisfaction of those who want a homegrown department store in Birmingham, that's fine. They'll be entering a market that's slowly but surely racing towrds the bottom and may or may not be able to deliver the store experience they were able to a generation ago.

[davidzLA]

Would somebody explain to me why Belk or any store has to be prestigious to get any respect? I don't find Parisian to be the least bit prestigious, but apparently you guys do.[\quote]

Certainly within Alabama, Parisian appealed to a higher-end customer than competitors such as McRae's, Pizitz, Newberry's, etc. It's been "our Rich's." It's been "our Neiman Marcus." Given the market's experience with Belk to date, the stores they have seen, it's as though JC Penney bought out Saks Fifth Avenue. That's the perception.

Equally important is the sense of loss in seeing a homegrown, familar name fade away, and how that reminds us that we're old and will die eventually. It's the same emotion that drives bank customers to move accounts when their bank changes names. There's a lot of misplaced emotion - maybe some of this displeasure with Belk should be directed to the Saks board that sold Parisian in the first place? It's not as though Belk abducted and raped a defenseless Parisian.

McRae's buying Pizitz in the 80's wasn't welcomed either, but the prestige level wasn't as wide in my opinion, and much more importantly, the internet wasn't there to vent.

But the reality is that Pizitz is going to have a hard time reestablishing a chain with a limited market and limited buying power in a general retail market that favors bigger store chains with more buying power. That's part of the reason Parisian is no more; they weren't big enough, fancy enough or possesing a broad enough appeal to stand out in the marketplace.

Not exactly. I'd be really surprised to see the Pizitz' revive that name for exactly the reasons you describe. Also, if they were truly interested in reopening mall-anchor scale stores, the best way to do that would have been to buy some Parisian stores rather than new construction.

But Parisian didn't go bankrupt. It "is no more" because a group of executives determined to strip down their company decided to divest it; it wasn't "big enough or fancy enough" for a board on a course to undo a bad merger. The buyer is chosing to rebrand the stores to fit their brand. It didn't fail or go away due to a failed strategy.

No store in this discussion could even come close to the sustained impact that Marshall Field's had on retail worldwide.

[memphian]

I brought up Marshall Field's because the conversion of Parisian to Belk, for the Birmingham consumer (and others) is the exact same thing as the conversion of Field's to Macy's. Parisian was at one point an innovator.

If you really want some proof - go to the belk website and then go look at the Parisian website. If a grand company like Belk is so damned wonderful... why the heck do thay have such a HORRIBLE website? Is it 1996 or 2006?

Now, I wish them luck (they're gonna need it) and I will give them a chance (If anyone from Belk reads this board - YOU ONLY GET ONE CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION - you failed miserably in Birmingham at Riverchase).

From a business perspective... I see having two brands that don't share charge cards and have totally different markets as a win-win situation. Hotels do it. Automakers do it, retailers do it.

[DruidCity]

I don't shop enough to know about the whole Parisian-Belk dynamic, but the Pizitz thing caught my attention :

Also, if they were truly interested in reopening mall-anchor scale stores, the best way to do that would have been to buy some Parisian stores rather than new construction.

[kayman]

I don't shop enough to know about the whole Parisian-Belk dynamic, but the Pizitz thing caught my attention :

How about, instead of mall anchors, a completely new chain of downtown department stores ?

Everything goes in cycles. Downtowns largely "died" for a couple of generations, giving way to shopping centers, but downtowns everywhere appear to be making a comeback, while some shopping centers are becoming stale, now perceived as too generic.

[davidzLA]

The Pitzitz could buy the downtown Birmingham Parisian store, which it's future is up in the air now especially considering Belk closed its downtown Charlotte store 15 years ago.

[memphian]

I think a regional chain of stores only located in downtowns might work - you just have to have the right merchandise mix. Since there is really only one downtown to any city the store would become a destination for its location alone. If it has good buyers that know the local tastes and then pushes the style a bit then there is definitely room for a retailer like this to emerge. Couldn't be a Dillard's or Macy's though.

Could be the re-entry strategy for Lord and Taylor in the South though...

[StevenRocks]

If you're saying that comparing Marshall Field's to Parisian is like comparing Tower Records to Record Bar, I understand. Again, hometown pride is front and center for most. So do you think then that the *opposite* destiny will unfold in Chicago - disgruntled Field's shoppers will cause the rebranded Macy's stores to fail?

[memphian]

On the old Proffitt's, Inc. website there used to be a history of Parisian - it was somewhat infomative. And I will agree that the magnitude of Field's greatly outweighs that of Parisian but to simply dismiss Parisian's role in the South (and Midwest btw too) is a bit trite.

The Macy's at Riverchase opened as a nice store. The mall became a victim of a newer center right down the road. Funny thing though... Parisian's Riverchase Store never looked bad, Rich's at Riverchase never looked bad. McRae's at Riverchase never looked good though. Proffitt's was a disappointment but I blame that on horrible leadership and BAD buying.

Belk's website sucks and if you want to say that is a cheap shot - go right ahead. The point was that you could visually see the difference in quality of the stores by looking at the websites. On a side note, Belk aired tv commercials in the Nashville Market over the holiday weekend. They advertised brands you could buy at Peebles or Goody's. This is not going to help their image and it is certainly not going to win over many, if any consumers in Franklin (where Parisian is). Franklin is in Williamson County and is one of the ten wealthiest counties in the Nation. This is not an elitist argument here at all but unless Belk comes out with nothing less than a Southpark type store. They're going to have a difficult time here.

Dillard's has had its share of problems as it gobbled up local names too. In Nashvill for instance in 1987 when Allied sold out to Dillard's a local group tried to buy back Cain-Sloan but Dillard's won. Joske's was not an easy purchase either - but that was due to racial issues.

In 1998 when Dillard's purchased Mercantile they were forced to sell 5 stores in Nashville because of overlapping Dillard's stores. Castner Knott Co. was eliminated. Castner's was the No. 1 store here and so were most of Mercantile's divisions. I am not sure that Dillard's got the results they were looking for with that purchase.

Anyway. I see that I am giving some redundent info here. The two stores are not like-for-like. They cater to two decidedly different crowds. I am eager to watch this all unfold. I'll certainly be ready with my "I told you so" in case things don't pan out. If they do work out - I will be surprised, eat a little crow and whatever else I need to do.

I think really what will happen is that this purchase will just eliminate an upscale (not luxury) brand and replace it with a lower-level offering. The people with style and money will move on to another store and in 2 years the Nashville location will close for remodelling to become Bloomingdales. LOL

[StevenRocks]

The same complaints and compliments you have about Belk could easily be applied to Parisian.

I was on Parisian's mailing list for many years, and what I saw in their circulars was identical to what Belk offered, and sometimes it was worse. They carried the same $9.99 polo shirts, tacky jewelry, and offered the same kinds of percent-off coupons. Not exactly deserving of that "Saks of the South" moniker I kept hearing earlier on this thread.

Further, you cannot dismiss the historical signifigance of Belk either. The company was not an innovator, but it brought quality department stores to markets that wouldn't have had them otherwise. Their successful upscaling in the '70s is one of retail's great stories, and strong Belk sales put the Carolinas on the map for upscale retail. That's nothing to sneer at.

But, of course, since they sell some brands that you can find at Kohl's or JCPenney to customers that proudly wear them along with the dozens of upscale lines found in the larger stores, they're somehow a second-rate store that won't past muster in Birmingham and Nashville. Nope, being accessable while still offering some of the world's finest brands and still retaining family ownership after nearly 120 years of continuous operation is nothing to be proud of at all.

Shame on Belk for trying to retain some semblence of department store retail in the mid-South. They should get out of the way so that Nordsrom and Saks and Neimans can come in and plant stores all over Gadsden, Montgomery and Knoxville.

What's that? They're not coming? You don't say! They'd all be here except for bad ol' Belk coming in and ruining things for everybody, I'm sure!

So they're really not coming? Markets are too small and not upscale enough you say? Oh well, that's gotta be Belk's fault. If it wasn't for that cheap 'ol website we'd have a Burberry on every corner!

What are they thinking, y'all? I mean, if we can't have Bergdorf's at the Cordova Mall, why not let those Parisian stores go dark so that they can get torn down or turned into Dick's Sporting Goods and Steve and Barry's. Those would be so much better than Belk.

[gs3]

The same complaints and compliments you have about Belk could easily be applied to Parisian.

I was on Parisian's mailing list for many years, and what I saw in their circulars was identical to what Belk offered, and sometimes it was worse. They carried the same $9.99 polo shirts, tacky jewelry, and offered the same kinds of percent-off coupons. Not exactly deserving of that "Saks of the South" moniker I kept hearing earlier on this thread.

Further, you cannot dismiss the historical signifigance of Belk either. The company was not an innovator, but it brought quality department stores to markets that wouldn't have had them otherwise. Their successful upscaling in the '70s is one of retail's great stories, and strong Belk sales put the Carolinas on the map for upscale retail. That's nothing to sneer at.

But, of course, since they sell some brands that you can find at Kohl's or JCPenney to customers that proudly wear them along with the dozens of upscale lines found in the larger stores, they're somehow a second-rate store that won't past muster in Birmingham and Nashville. Nope, being accessable while still offering some of the world's finest brands and still retaining family ownership after nearly 120 years of continuous operation is nothing to be proud of at all.

Shame on Belk for trying to retain some semblence of department store retail in the mid-South. They should get out of the way so that Nordsrom and Saks and Neimans can come in and plant stores all over Gadsden, Montgomery and Knoxville.

What's that? They're not coming? You don't say! They'd all be here except for bad ol' Belk coming in and ruining things for everybody, I'm sure!

So they're really not coming? Markets are too small and not upscale enough you say? Oh well, that's gotta be Belk's fault. If it wasn't for that cheap 'ol website we'd have a Burberry on every corner!

What are they thinking, y'all? I mean, if we can't have Bergdorf's at the Cordova Mall, why not let those Parisian stores go dark so that they can get torn down or turned into Dick's Sporting Goods and Steve and Barry's. Those would be so much better than Belk.

[memphian]

Well you just convinced me. Belk is SO much better than Parisian. (okay I thought I could say that without laughing -LOL). Let's just agree to disagree. Enjoy your shopping excursions to Belk!

[samson123]

Where are you from? I hope not North Carolina, Ya'll . If you were from Birmingham/OTM area, you would know the signifigance of Parisian. Birmingham is not a corporate meca like Atlanta nor do we want to be, in 20 years Atlanta will be L.A., and we want to be San Francisco. Parisian is a high quality retailer that caters to a high income clintel; they do carry some cheaper clothes, but also carry nicer things that these Birmingham shoppers have become acustumed too and regular department stores don't carry ie Belk and its equal good ole equal JcPenny, who have survived by opening stores in very small towns selling cheap clothes to people who don't know the difference. I'm just gonna tell you straight The Summitt is kinda a big deal not by what kind of stores are there or not there, but by the unusaully large amount of money that is spent there compared to other malls in the area and yes across the nation too. Birmingham might not be L.A. or Chicago, but there is an ungodly amount of wealth concentrated in the area/communities around the Summitt, people like you don't understand that and companies like :Saks 5th Ave, Bebe, Coach, Apple, Adrienne Vittadini, BCBG, Anthropologie, Max studio, Sigrd Olsen, Lucky, Marmi, Aveda, Smith & Hawken, Bose, didn't understand till recently when they learned summitt shoppers must have money because these stores have much higher sales than most other locations across the country. Since this is now the case developer Bayer properties has these retailers kissing his ass and others like, yes Nordstrom, Bloomingdales trying to work with him to get in this market, why the hell do you think he's trying to kick Belk, one of his own tenats out???? So don't post something you know nothing about.

P.S. ya'll alittle Ole piece of Birmingham's redneck retail history or what we've grown used too : www.shaias.com, www.gusmayer.com, sell to the same market as Parisian does.

[gs3]

Guys its all smoke and mirrors.

I worked for Saks Inc when they owned Parisian and sorry to say, Parisian had been eroding for years. Parisian was special when the Hess family owned them, but from the Hooker period through Saks Inc it wasn't the same. Parisian sold the same private label crap (under a different name) that Proffitt's/McRae's sold. Smoke and mirrors.

I was born in Birmingham and grew up there. I know what Parisian WAS. I also know the market. While definitely a good market, it still lags Charlotte as far as retail (Belk's home). I think Belk knows a thing or two. And as for upscale, The Summit is nice, but kind of middle America. Check out Southpark where Belk has it's flagship if you want real brands: Gucci, Burberry, Nordstrom, Neimans, Herme's, Tiffany & Co., St.John, etc, etc, etc.

I love Birmingham myself, but gosh guys, the loss of Parisian is really not that major of an event. There's still plenty of great shopping to go around.

PS guys.....maybe you should travel a little more. Any city of decent size in America has that same pocket of wealth that surrounds the Summit. Mountain Brook, Homewood and Ova-tha-Mountain areas are not some Southern anomaly. They're pretty much status quo these days.

[DruidCity]

PS guys.....maybe you should travel a little more.

[mallguy]

Regardless of one's views of Belk or Parisian, US retailing is worse off with Parisian's demise. Fewer different chains means less variety, less competition and fewer mall anchors (perhaps this is good for deadmalls.com, but not for those of us who shop).

And for the upscale vs. downscale debate about Belk vs. Parisian, Parisian is most certainly a store with a higher average price point than Belk. This doesn't mean that Parisian is the same as Neiman Marcus; it's not. Similarly, I'd say that Belk is generally more expensive than JC Penney. It can be proved by just walking around your local Parisian and your local Belk and noting the prices of the merchandise (say, take 5 shirts, ties, shoes, etc. at random on each table) and averaging them; Parisian will come out higher.

[StevenRocks]

Where are you from? I hope not North Carolina, Ya'll . If you were from Birmingham/OTM area, you would know the signifigance of Parisian. Birmingham is not a corporate meca like Atlanta nor do we want to be, in 20 years Atlanta will be L.A., and we want to be San Francisco. Parisian is a high quality retailer that caters to a high income clintel; they do carry some cheaper clothes, but also carry nicer things that these Birmingham shoppers have become acustumed too and regular department stores don't carry ie Belk and its equal good ole equal JcPenny, who have survived by opening stores in very small towns selling cheap clothes to people who don't know the difference. I'm just gonna tell you straight The Summitt is kinda a big deal not by what kind of stores are there or not there, but by the unusaully large amount of money that is spent there compared to other malls in the area and yes across the nation too. Birmingham might not be L.A. or Chicago, but there is an ungodly amount of wealth concentrated in the area/communities around the Summitt, people like you don't understand that and companies like :Saks 5th Ave, Bebe, Coach, Apple, Adrienne Vittadini, BCBG, Anthropologie, Max studio, Sigrd Olsen, Lucky, Marmi, Aveda, Smith & Hawken, Bose, didn't understand till recently when they learned summitt shoppers must have money because these stores have much higher sales than most other locations across the country. Since this is now the case developer Bayer properties has these retailers kissing his ass and others like, yes Nordstrom, Bloomingdales trying to work with him to get in this market, why the hell do you think he's trying to kick Belk, one of his own tenats out???? So don't post something you know nothing about.

P.S. ya'll alittle Ole piece of Birmingham's redneck retail history or what we've grown used too : www.shaias.com, www.gusmayer.com, sell to the same market as Parisian does.

[gs3]

Respectfully, wherever one has travelled , it should come as no surprise that locals consider

it a loss when a homegrown brand dies.

That's true, but Birmingham is the only "city of decent size" in AL, so Birmingham's offerings are a point of interest and pride to a lot of people who reside in the northern two-thirds of the state.

OMG, they killed Kenny !