Hoskins / Thomasboro

[BobbyRobert]

I just searched the archives and found hardly a mention of this (apparently) forgotten older suburb. It is a bit out of the way (e.g. the other side of I-85) but its only four miles from downtown. What is holding this part of town back. The housing stock is generally pretty good (in places), its very cheap (hello displaced NoDa artists) there are signs of revitalization (although I am not sure that Hoskins mill is getting sold well by Urban Reality) and its very well connected. So is it crime? The airport glide path? Or is the area simply invisible to the march of revitalization? Does anyone have thoughts on this forgotten corner of Charlotte?

Here is a map of the area:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&a...134404,0.227623

[DigitalSky]

I think that people associate this area with high crime and the airport as you've mentioned... but I also think this area will get it's chance to shine one day in the near future too

[rockhilljames]

Honest to God, I've never been there or even heard the name.

Methinks I might need to road trip it one day.

[dubone]

I believe that this area will begin to turn around when the streetcar extends to there. If everything goes as expected, that should be within the next 5 or 6 years.

However, many areas west of 77 get held back by the general sense that the realtors give to white middle class buyers: North/South = Good, East/West = Bad.

[Charlotte_native]

There is the large barrier of I-85 that separates Hoskins/Thomasboro from the closer in neigboring neighborhoods. So far the emerging neighborhoods, for the most part (NoDa is a good exception) the areas that have seen the most activity have been adjacent to the center city or adjacent to other neighborhoods that have already changed.

This neighborhood does have high crime, train tracks that cut through it and trains that stop traffic constantly. I would imagine there will be change, but no time soon -- it is a bit far flung from the city, it is a very large neighborhood so crime won't be easy to combat quickly, and as noted on here, almost nobody knows this is here.

The Hoskins Mill project likely won't change much -- though it has new homeowners it is at the very edge of the neighborhood and is completely fenced in. It doensn't really engage the interior of the neighborhood at all. The developer there did a pretty horrible job with the "renovation" of the low income apartments it once was (pergo floors, laminant countertops, didn't replace the bathrooms -- just cleaned them up, and did no landscaping). The project is cheap in both senses of the word. I guess that is what an out-of-town developer gets us -- the potential with that mill was great though I'm not sure if high-end finishes would have pushed the prices too high for someone to move out there. It is definitely pioneer country. I would imagine that is why both real estate companies that have worked on this have had trouble with sales.

[BobbyRobert]

There is the large barrier of I-85 that separates Hoskins/Thomasboro from the closer in neigboring neighborhoods. So far the emerging neighborhoods, for the most part (NoDa is a good exception) the areas that have seen the most activity have been adjacent to the center city or adjacent to other neighborhoods that have already changed.

This neighborhood does have high crime, train tracks that cut through it and trains that stop traffic constantly. I would imagine there will be change, but no time soon -- it is a bit far flung from the city, it is a very large neighborhood so crime won't be easy to combat quickly, and as noted on here, almost nobody knows this is here.

The Hoskins Mill project likely won't change much -- though it has new homeowners it is at the very edge of the neighborhood and is completely fenced in. It doensn't really engage the interior of the neighborhood at all. The developer there did a pretty horrible job with the "renovation" of the low income apartments it once was (pergo floors, laminant countertops, didn't replace the bathrooms -- just cleaned them up, and did no landscaping). The project is cheap in both senses of the word. I guess that is what an out-of-town developer gets us -- the potential with that mill was great though I'm not sure if high-end finishes would have pushed the prices too high for someone to move out there. It is definitely pioneer country. I would imagine that is why both real estate companies that have worked on this have had trouble with sales.

I would have written the area off because of the I-85 barrier but I thought of the example of east Atlanta, a neighborhood that looks similar to Hoskins (although East Atlanta has a much better defined 'central business district') but thrived begining in the mid 1990s despite it being on the 'bad' side of I-20. Its rapid gentrification leapfrogged several closer-in neighborhoods that did not have the same interstate barrier.

I am the first to admit that Atlanta is very different from Charlotte but I am reluctant to say that interstates form developmental barriers that cannot be bridged (look at Wesley Heights for example). The issue of I-85 aside, I agree the crime and rail yard can be very discouraging to potential renovators.

Thanks for the info on the Hoskins mill renovation, I had not been inside and a sloppy renovation would explain alot about the market's response to the project.

[Charlotte_native]

I would have written the area off because of the I-85 barrier but I thought of the example of east Atlanta, a neighborhood that looks similar to Hoskins (although East Atlanta has a much better defined 'central business district') but thrived begining in the mid 1990s despite it being on the 'bad' side of I-20. Its rapid gentrification leapfrogged several closer-in neighborhoods that did not have the same interstate barrier.

I am the first to admit that Atlanta is very different from Charlotte but I am reluctant to say that interstates form developmental barriers that cannot be bridged (look at Wesley Heights for example). The issue of I-85 aside, I agree the crime and rail yard can be very discouraging to potential renovators.

I don't think this area is without potential, just that a few things hinder it. The I-85 barrier is only important, IMO, because the neighborhood is already separated by 2 miles of neighborhoods, THEN the barrier. I think things will change here eventually, but the filler in between might likely come first.

Wesley Heights beat the odds already - 6 or 7 years ago "experts" said no one would really spend much money there due to the Freedom Drive / Morehead industrial and commercial strip combined with crime. Nice to see how wrong they were!

One of the coolest parts of Hoskins are the interdispersed storefront buildings that have survived.

[lukedog]

I just searched the archives and found hardly a mention of this (apparently) forgotten older suburb. It is a bit out of the way (e.g. the other side of I-85) but its only four miles from downtown. What is holding this part of town back. The housing stock is generally pretty good (in places), its very cheap (hello displaced NoDa artists) there are signs of revitalization (although I am not sure that Hoskins mill is getting sold well by Urban Reality) and its very well connected. So is it crime? The airport glide path? Or is the area simply invisible to the march of revitalization? Does anyone have thoughts on this forgotten corner of Charlotte?

Here is a map of the area:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&a...134404,0.227623

I have been looking into this area lately and I think it has huge potential. I haven't been in the lofts yet and I need too...but I have seen some pictures and they look nice. Prices of the condos range from 100 K to 200 K. These condos will sell out (even if it takes a year or two) and the people moving in will be middle to upper middle class...perhaps those who can't afford the 250 K + condos uptown. When Hoskins Mills start to fill up the area will change dramatically. Police presence will increase and many of the trouble makers living in old, beautiful homes will be replaced with middle to upper middle class people. The real estate will then go through the roof. If you are looking for the next Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Noda...I don't know of another area around the 277 loop that has more promise.

If you do happen to check out the area....make sure you go to Hoskins Park...the city has put a lot of money into it and it is nice!

[lukedog]

I just searched the archives and found hardly a mention of this (apparently) forgotten older suburb. It is a bit out of the way (e.g. the other side of I-85) but its only four miles from downtown. What is holding this part of town back. The housing stock is generally pretty good (in places), its very cheap (hello displaced NoDa artists) there are signs of revitalization (although I am not sure that Hoskins mill is getting sold well by Urban Reality) and its very well connected. So is it crime? The airport glide path? Or is the area simply invisible to the march of revitalization? Does anyone have thoughts on this forgotten corner of Charlotte?

Here is a map of the area:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&a...134404,0.227623

http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/eu5p6...kins%2BPlan.pdf

Check out the link above to see what the city's plans were/are for this area. This area will be very nice in 3 or 4 years

[AuLukey]

I have to be honest, I too have never heard of this area. I'll have to go check it out for myself. It is a little surprising to look at the city's design overall and not wonder how more uptown driven development hasn't made the leep over 77 and at least somewhat influenced areas closer to 85. However, having the double interstate divide pretty much destroyed all hope for the area in question during Charlotte's automobile driven (pardon the pun) days. However, as mentioned before, if and when the streetcar is developed, that should provide a well needed boost.

Also, it's good to hear from somebody who can provide a little info on that area who knows what's going on. Welcome to UP lukedog. P.S. great name!

[uptownliving]

I think this area has potential...but I think its going to take more like 5-10 years for it to pan out. The streetcar won't have much of a direct effect as it will terminate 1.5 miles away at Rosa Parks Place. Other than a lack of rail connection with downtown, the main drawback is that the area is directly underneath the flightpath for the airport's diagonal Runway 23.

For anyone who hasn't seen the inside of the old Hoskins Mill that is now called Foxridge Lofts I highly recommend doing it. It has a large wide open lobby that spans almost the entire length of the building and goes up some 40 ft. What is unique is that it is all supported by the exposed original huge wooden beams. You won't find this anywhere else in Charlotte's modern day construction.

[lukedog]

I have to be honest, I too have never heard of this area. I'll have to go check it out for myself. It is a little surprising to look at the city's design overall and not wonder how more uptown driven development hasn't made the leep over 77 and at least somewhat influenced areas closer to 85. However, having the double interstate divide pretty much destroyed all hope for the area in question during Charlotte's automobile driven (pardon the pun) days. However, as mentioned before, if and when the streetcar is developed, that should provide a well needed boost.

Also, it's good to hear from somebody who can provide a little info on that area who knows what's going on. Welcome to UP lukedog. P.S. great name!

Thanks Aussie Luke...I bet people call you Lukedog from time to time too...if not I'll let you borrow the nickname! Anyway, I hear what people are saying about the airplanes flying over this area. However, I really don't think it will hurt the values of the houses as I have been out there and the planes are still at a high altitude when going over Hoskins/Thomasboro...so high that you can see the planes but not hear them. As for the crime, I don't know the crime rates but it can't be higher than Noda (the bad side of the Plaza) or Belmont.

I know I seem very positive about the area...I am actually buying a house there close to the mill/park...1500 sqare feet/ in very good shape/ great hard wood floors and nice front porch/built in 1900...good size lot (most of the houses in this area have at least .25 acre lots if not bigger)...all for 80,000. I'm buying it to rent out for now but I could see myself moving into this house in a few years.

[Charlotte_native]

Thanks Aussie Luke...I bet people call you Lukedog from time to time too...if not I'll let you borrow the nickname! Anyway, I hear what people are saying about the airplanes flying over this area. However, I really don't think it will hurt the values of the houses as I have been out there and the planes are still at a high altitude when going over Hoskins/Thomasboro...so high that you can see the planes but not hear them. As for the crime, I don't know the crime rates but it can't be higher than Noda (the bad side of the Plaza) or Belmont.

I know I seem very positive about the area...I am actually buying a house there close to the mill/park...1500 sqare feet/ in very good shape/ great hard wood floors and nice front porch/built in 1900...good size lot (most of the houses in this area have at least .25 acre lots if not bigger)...all for 80,000. I'm buying it to rent out for now but I could see myself moving into this house in a few years.

Two houses, 2 blocks from the mill, just sold for $15,000 each! i'm sure they need lots of work, but that is lot value...

[lukedog]

Two houses, 2 blocks from the mill, just sold for $15,000 each! i'm sure they need lots of work, but that is lot value...

True...you are probably talking about houses on Goff which are close to the mill and it probably would take a lot of work to fix them up to the point they are livable. At the same time, it was only 4 years ago you could buy small houses in Noda (on the good side of the Plaza) or lots for not much more than $15,000....now you can't buy a small lot for less than $80,000 in Noda. Thats the thing about these neigborhoods...you have to have vision (not saying you don't Clt native). Noda, wesley heights, wilmore...all of those places were risky at one time for people to buy into. I have looked around Hoskins and I think it has a strong potential to turn over...there is a lot of land and buildings that could be turned into shops and restuarants if business start to invest. That is just my opinon though and I am not a real estate expert. Cheers!

[cinco]

maybe you could've found a house in noda for $15,000 - 14 years ago... but, no way could you have found one for that - 4 years ago. hoskins area has a ton of potential... especially if your looking into mill/factory/urban upfits. if you want to find a small warehouse or industrial bldg and transform into your home... then this area is probably reasonably priced for that. i have a friend that bought a smallish warehouse space in this area recently... the space is amazing, but, the immediate neighborhood is pretty rough to plain bad. they don't spend much time outside their bldg.

the potential is there, but, i think this area is many, many years away from seeing results similar to north davidson.

[Charlotte_native]

True...you are probably talking about houses on Goff which are close to the mill and it probably would take a lot of work to fix them up to the point they are livable. At the same time, it was only 4 years ago you could buy small houses in Noda (on the good side of the Plaza) or lots for not much more than $15,000....now you can't buy a small lot for less than $80,000 in Noda. Thats the thing about these neigborhoods...you have to have vision (not saying you don't Clt native). Noda, wesley heights, wilmore...all of those places were risky at one time for people to buy into. I have looked around Hoskins and I think it has a strong potential to turn over...there is a lot of land and buildings that could be turned into shops and restuarants if business start to invest. That is just my opinon though and I am not a real estate expert. Cheers!

I think you read me wrong, I intended to be quite positive, as in " this is lot value, so what a hellova deal for a lot with a house on it! FREE HOUSE"

I think this area will turn around. Not next year or the next, but as the closer in neighborhoods get more and more expensive these homes will become VERY attractive. Combine that with being able to leave Hoskins Mill, hit Brookshire, and be in the middle of center city in less than 10 minutes (barring a train or rush hour traffice), it is a great spot.

There are deals all over the area, there was even a church with an auxilary building on close to an acre that sold a year or two ago for $250,000. There are houses anywhere from $15,000 to $80,000.

I hope I have vision, I have property in Hoskins!

[mtnboy]

I've just finished reading all the responses from everyone over the past few months. It seems to me that everyone is pretty optimistic about this area. That's good to know. I just purchased a third floor end unit at Fox Ridge and am pretty excited. Purchasing a unit in this part of town does have the obvious concerns as most of you have discussed regarding flight traffic, congestion, trains, crime, shady dudes on the streets and more trains. But if you will look around at the large builders throughout the larger Charlotte area, most of them do have neighborhoods coming out of the ground in these "rougher" neighborhoods for good reason. Take for instance the following regional/national builders: Ryland, Ryan, MI Homes, Centex, and Eastwood all have new neighborhoods sparking up just minutes from this area. Large production builders do not take chances on losing market position these days, epecially in Charlotte since the Carolina's region is one of the last remaining areas in the continental U.S. that has not seen the effects of a slowing market. These large national builders are depending on these posts in the Carolinas to keep them afloat during these times. With this being said, there is and will always be risk associated with real estate and really anything else that can produce a large amount of capital in a relative short amount of time. Short amount of time....I agree, probably not in this area, but with these builders choosing to put large production neighborhoods in these areas amist a slowing market- a couple of these fellas know what they are doing. A mirror location without the crime is south of Ballantyne on 521 going into Lancaster. Over the last 8 months to 2 years, most of the farm land and other old commercial property has become absorbed by these large residential developing firms and plans for large communities are in the work, relatively a while before the "craze" became. While most were still interested in the Ballantyne area, big builders were gaining future market position by thinking down the road (no pun intended) and securing the land. Currently, you are pretty hard pressed to find land in this area.

With this being said- I personally tend to follow big builders for my investments. May not always be the best bet considering the national downturn, but while this area is still chugging, the Hoskins area is a great place to be.

And by the way- the project is not a "cheap" renovation by any means. It just takes a little elbow grease and ingenuity to create an urban loft with lots of character that can be molded after the property is purchased.

[monsoon]

Congratulations and welcome to UrbanPlanet. I hope you will stick around keep us informed on what is going on in that part of Charlotte.