Flagstaff

[colin]

Thanks for posting, Urb.

It's interesting to get different perspectives on Flag, especially from those who have actually lived there.

Most people I know who have lived there for a time have idealized versions of it, but they were going to college and were working only menial jobs (if working at all) usually not supporting themselves.

For things being inflated, do you mean that things like food items and general daily necessities were more, or are you talking more things like eating out or luxury items? Or are you just referring to real estate?

I'm actually very surprised that Flag was at all effected by the tech boom. It seems like the economy there is in such a constant lull that it would just ride out these waves and only be rocked slightly.

I think that "don't let anything come to the town" is a consistent sentiment in a lot of places. Big box/chain stores coming in generally leads to more irresponsible growth, traffic problems and the undermining of the small business community. I think that, also, large employers are not encouraged because of that same resentment against the Scottsdale types who are pushing up housing prices and others who want a life in a nice, mountain town. I mean, Flagstaff would be a hell of a lot larger if there were actually jobs there. Who wouldn't rather live there than Phoenix??

Flagstaff is lucky in that, despite its relatively low income level (although the mean income is still quite a bit higher than that of Tucson), it's been able to maintain a fairly vibrant community, especially in the Downtown area.

I would say that you can make it living there, but not without a good degree + some experience, or the acceptance of living a paycheck-to-paycheck life. But this is true for almost any smaller city.

I was in Phoenix last night for a concert and, for whatever reason, thought about Flagstaff. If a friend from Houston comes for Thanksgiving, I'll be going up there then (she's never seen the Canyon), but may be going up there even if she doesn't come just because I enjoy it.

Thanks again, and welcome to the forum!

[urbie]

Thanks for posting, Urb.... I think that "don't let anything come to the town" is a consistent sentiment in a lot of places. Big box/chain stores coming in generally leads to more irresponsible growth, traffic problems and the undermining of the small business community. I think that, also, large employers are not encouraged because of that same resentment against the Scottsdale types who are pushing up housing prices and others who want a life in a nice, mountain town. I mean, Flagstaff would be a hell of a lot larger if there were actually jobs there. Who wouldn't rather live there than Phoenix??

Colin, that's basically it -- that's the local attitude, and it's why jobs don't come and locals scrape by.

The problem is that if you don't let companies locate there, it is not going to stop the trophy homes -- you can't stop growth, but the way things are now, all the growth is from outsiders with their 5,000-square-foot houses that are vacant 50 weeks a year (as my friends who clean them can attest). The big outside money is going to do what it wants. And it does inflate the cost of pretty much everything, not just real-estate. Seriously, Flagstaff is almost as expensive as Boston, in terms of what things cost.

By preventing any local job growth, all you're doing is guaranteeing that Flag will never be a real town with any kind of local economy.

That, in a nutshell, is why we left.

Urb

[colin]

I went up to Flagstaff this past weekend, staying at a friend of a friend's house a few miles east of town.

I spent a little bit of time (not nearly as much as I would have liked) Downtown, and spent much of the day Saturday at Snowbowl going up to (mainly waiting to go up to) Agassiz Peak, the second highest peak in the state (Humphrey's is only about 300' higher and only about a mile away). This is the only place in the state where tundra exists, and I believe the only place where it gets high enough to reach above the treeline (Arizona's second, higher treeline that is).

There is a ski lift that takes you up there and a short hiking trail to catch some views. It was pretty chilly (mid-30's, but not much wind) but no snow. I got some pictures, but on my phone, and I'm still waiting for a microSD card to be purchased.

I'll post some of Downtown that I took if any are good though.

[colin]

Downtown Flagstaff:

This is a place to be admired. Virtually corporate-free, very pedestrian oriented, incredibly safe and very healthy. There are also two historic hotels. The area underwent a revitalization project in 1999/2000 and has been flourishing since. Pictures taken on Sunday afternoon.

Looking west on Aspen Avenue:

Looking east on Aspen toward San Francisco Street:

I have a thing for alleys:

Heritage Square. There was a lot more activity the day before:

The famous balcony of the Hotel Weatherford:

Wheeler Park:

The newish city hall. Built in a classic style:

[convulso]

nice pics....flagstaff's downtown area is very nice - not new-nice, but inviting as a functional and reasonably-scaled public space. you can park well away from the restaurants, etc. (of course i don't know street names), walk to everything, and enjoy the walk back, because nothing is too distant and everything seems more accommodating of peds than of cars. if you like to walk, bike, take your pets out, skate, or - oh, i don't know - ride a segway, downtown flag is your place. we may go up this weekend if the weather up there is nice.

[convulso]

damn double posts...

[kaneui]

^^^ Colin, your pic of the red sandstone building referred to as City Hall is actually the Coconino County Courthouse built in 1893, recently refurbished and restored, with a late 50's wing removed to reveal more of the original structure. (I'll try and retrieve some archival pics of the courthouse from the NAU library so you can see its evolution from the beginning.)

Flagstaff's City Hall is located at Humphreys St. and Santa Fe Ave.--a red brick building built in the 80's with modern architecture, right next to Wheeler Park.

[MJLO]

You know, i'd think that Flagstaff really could have an economic advantage if it wanted to. It's got a great location on I-40. But I guess it doesn't matter since the city doesn't much care for growth or stability. It sounds as tho the status quo isn't that bad though.

[davidals]

Fat chance. The bubble burst, then 9/11 happened, and we found ourselves... stuck in Flagstaff. Some call it paradise, but others call it "Poverty with a view," and we found that the latter was closer to the truth.

Small town, but the cost of everything is grossly inflated by the Scottsdale Robber Barons who come up on weekends, build their million-dollar trophy homes, and price the little guy out of the real-estate market. Extremely liberal, anti-growth, anti-business city government, and a hippie pot-smoking ethos of "don't let anything come here, it'll ruin the town and its hippie, rural character." My wife called it "Berkeley without the brains." The city council is always passing resolutions calling for Bush's impeachment, or an end to the massacres in Darfur, or whatever other global issue they have no influence over. Meanwhile, city officials do everything they can to kill small businesses (I can give examples if you're interested).

I managed to get a half-time job at NAU, which I had for four years, but it eventually became clear that we were just not going to be able to make it in Flagstaff, with my skill set. So I enrolled at the NAU business school for a degree in accounting (which I finally finished this summer). The idea was supposed to be that it would enable me to make a living in Flagstaff -- but while I was working on the degree, my wife and I decided we were sick of the town and its stupidity and small-mindedness, and that we wanted to go back to a city that takes itself seriously.

Long story short, Flag is a great place to go on vacation, but don't try to live there, unless you embrace poverty (albeit, as the cliche goes, with a view). Was I ever glad to get back to the east coast....

Urb

[MJLO]

You know that was the first time I got a good read of Urbies post. It cracked me up. I never have heard that perspective on the way things are run up there. I'd imagine it's probabally fairly close to the truth too.

[colin]

Went up again for New Year's. It was snowy!!

Sunset Crater National Monument:

Wupatki National Monument, peaks in the background:

New Year's celebration Downtown:

Everyone was drunk. Good times.

[convulso]

nice nice nice. terrific pics. i suppose flag does new year's right. is that a ball-type thing getting ready to drop up there?

[colin]

Yeah. The only frustrating thing was that you couldn't drink on the streets.

It's actually a big metal pinecone. Get it??

[colin]

Appeals Court rules against snow-making at Snowbowl

Kind of a blow for Snowbowl, which will have to continue on an extremely limited season, thus losing all the more money and reducing the state's ability to compete with its neighbors for ski tourism.

Oh well. I guess it's better than literally spraying sh*t all over the Peaks.

[MJLO]

I don't know that i'd want to ski in that anyway.

[colin]

National Geographic says Flagstaff is among best wilderness towns

No surprise there, really.