Sky High

[Justiceham]

There's been a lot of talk about these cities and their growth, but which one will break the height barrier (a highrise 20 stories or greater)? What do you guys/gals think?

Edited August 12, 2006 by Justiceham

[fieldmarshaldj]

Well, I voted for M'boro, if only because it already has a skyscraper. I don't know what height you had in mind, though, Justiceham.

[frankliner]

Yeah, I always thought the M-boro highrise was kinda odd without another to accompany it. I would say Clarksville has the population to support 2 or 3 skyscrapers. Jackson needs one, just to give a bit more civic pride. But it is a pretty important city for most of West TN. Franklin will never have a "skyscraper" unless there is some extremely drastic change in city policies. We have pretty strict height ordinances here.

EDIT- I voted for Clarksville even though the Boro already has a skyscraper because I thought it had the most potential for a new one.

Edited August 11, 2006 by frankliner

[fieldmarshaldj]

Yeah, I always thought the M-boro highrise was kinda odd without another to accompany it. I would say Clarksville has the population to support 2 or 3 skyscrapers. Jackson needs one, just to give a bit more civic pride. But it is a pretty important city for most of West TN. Franklin will never have a "skyscraper" unless there is some extremely drastic change in city policies. We have pretty strict height ordinances here.

EDIT- I voted for Clarksville even though the Boro already has a skyscraper because I thought it had the most potential for a new one.

I would've voted for Clarksville as a "potential", but as has often been pointed out, the nature of the ground (propensity for sinkholes) there makes it a formidable task (and I believe they won't allow anything taller than the Monty Co Courthouse).

[miami1855]

I would've voted for Clarksville as a "potential", but as has often been pointed out, the nature of the ground (propensity for sinkholes) there makes it a formidable task (and I believe they won't allow anything taller than the Monty Co Courthouse).

They can build as tall as they want, it just takes an extra amount of infrastructure and foundation that many developers are not willing to undertake.

And I see the outskirts of Clarksville eventually becoming like Cool Springs/Brentwood, developing mid-rise office complexes.

Edited August 11, 2006 by miami1855

[Fallingwater]

They can build as tall as they want, it just takes an extra amount of infrastructure and foundation that many developers are not willing to undertake.

And I see the outskirts of Clarksville eventually becoming like Cool Springs/Brentwood, developing mid-rise office complexes.

I do think that will come as well. I actually think it is long overdue. I do recall a few year's ago that Clarksville city officials formed a team or task force whose specific charge was to actively and aggressively pursue Corporations to relocate in Clarksville.

[Justiceham]

Yeah, I always thought the M-boro highrise was kinda odd without another to accompany it. I would say Clarksville has the population to support 2 or 3 skyscrapers. Jackson needs one, just to give a bit more civic pride. But it is a pretty important city for most of West TN. Franklin will never have a "skyscraper" unless there is some extremely drastic change in city policies. We have pretty strict height ordinances here.

EDIT- I voted for Clarksville even though the Boro already has a skyscraper because I thought it had the most potential for a new one.

I decided to throw Franklin in the mix because it is now the 9th most populous city in Tennessee, and the fact that this city offers things you find in much larger cities.

[rocky top buzz]

I voted for murfreesboro even though it shouldn't be on this list. The City Center is 15 storis according to Emporis; pretty close to your 20.

And if you think Murfreesboro looks stupid without additional tall buildings, what did you think of Nashville in the 50's? The City Center is nothing compared to the size of the L&C.

I personally don't want to see a bunch of 10-20 foot towers in the boro. It'll take away from the college town feel.

[nashvillwill]

I don't see any of these cities reaching 20 stories in the next several decades. These area's are considered suburban and attract suburban style "campuses", which tend to top out around 10 stories. Any company/developer that is serious about an urban highrise tend to lean towards the area's with pre-existing infrastructure. Would you really build a 30 floor high-rise surrounded by 20 acres of surface parking?

Anywho, I voted for Jackson, simply because I see that city (in 50 years maybe) being its own independent MSA. Considering it does not rely on a core city as much as the others do.

P.S.- In my urban dream-world, Murfreesboro grows fast enough, and urban enough, to create a Dallas/Ft. Worth like relationship with Nashville. However, I think 'boro politics and shortmindedness will prevent that from ever happening. Just a random comment

[Justiceham]

I voted for murfreesboro even though it shouldn't be on this list. The City Center is 15 storis according to Emporis; pretty close to your 20.

And if you think Murfreesboro looks stupid without additional tall buildings, what did you think of Nashville in the 50's? The City Center is nothing compared to the size of the L&C.

I personally don't want to see a bunch of 10-20 foot towers in the boro. It'll take away from the college town feel.

I disagree, I think the City Center has been alone much too long. The tower is handsome at fifteen stories, but it is a midrise. I could see a few taller towers (20-30 stories) to come dowtown, even though, it seems as if officials aren't too concerned with downtown but more with the Gateway area. I have gotten used to seeing that building be there next to the square, but it's time to move forward. I also believe our downtown doesn't match our outlaying neighborhoods, because it is too small.

[Fallingwater]

Anywho, I voted for Jackson, simply because I see that city (in 50 years maybe) being its own independent MSA. Considering it does not rely on a core city as much as the others do.

But Nasvillwill, Clarksville is already an independent MSA. It is actually the Clarksville/Hopkinsville SMSA. Yet, I don't think Clarksville will rise vertically for the various reasons we have mentioned such as height ordinances and the added expense associated with building foundations in an area prone to sinkholes and caves beneath.

[Justiceham]

I think Clarksville has a lot going for it. The density is already there with several low rises. With 20,000 soldiers expected to come back by this fall, the city will be bustling. Eventually, a few investors will take notice of Clarksville's potential and take the chance. The Cumberland River Greenway is something to be treasured, also. And if sinkholes are something scary, it certainly didn't stop New Orleans from building up.

Edited August 12, 2006 by Justiceham

[fieldmarshaldj]

And if sinkholes are something scary, it certainly didn't stop New Orleans from building up.

I'm not sure I'd use NOLA as a positive model for urban development.

[Justiceham]

I'm not sure I'd use NOLA as a positive model for urban development.

We're not talking levees here, just that it's quite possible for Clarksville to build up.

[Lexy]

It is possible to build up on a Karst topography like Clarksville's. Bowling Green, KY has a few high-rises and it's twice as Karst as anywhere this side of the Mississippi River. But, the envirmentalist, cave formations, and the location of caverns in that area may prevent the development of tall buildings in Clarksville. Personally, I would like to see infill in Clarksville with some good mixed-use mid-rises and some wonderful streetscape.

[Fallingwater]

It is possible to build up on a Karst topography like Clarksville's. Bowling Green, KY has a few high-rises and it's twice as Karst as anywhere this side of the Mississippi River. But, the envirmentalist, cave formations, and the location of caverns in that area may prevent the development of tall buildings in Clarksville. Personally, I would like to see infill in Clarksville with some good mixed-use mid-rises and some wonderful streetscape.

Hello Lexy,

One of my big "knocks" against Clarksville is that newer developments (neighborhoods, roads, etc.) are built without any sidewalks, curbs, or even adequate streetlights. The "old city limits" has these things for the most part but if you drive through Clarksville at night then one may notice it is a fairly dark place. Without sidewalks then it becomes dangerous to even take a leisurely walk or ride a bicycle. That is one thing that I love about Murfreesboro's developments and neighborhoods as they nearly all have adequate street lighting, sidewalks, and many now even have bike lanes. These things might seem like they would not matter that much but I think they definitely add to the overall quality of life and even the allure of a place. Many of Murfreesboros neighborhoods also have "concrete paved" drainage areas whereas in Clarksville (or even in Nashville for that matter) you get a natural "gulley" behind your house.

Since I do enjoy riding my bicycle on occasion for pleasure, my question to anyone currently residing in Clarksville is; Where do Clarksvillian's go to ride their bikes or what major road can they safely walk or jog? Bikes are forbidden on the Cumberland Riverwalk (I think this is unfortunate) and I do not see any bike lanes anywhere. As bad as I think traffic is on Old Fort Pkwy. in Murfreesboro, I think it is actually worse on Wilma Rudolph Blvd. at peak times and Wilma Rudolph is a larger thoroughfare as well. I would be reticent to even attempt to ride my bike around there unless it was one of those roads off the main one. Ft. Campbell Blvd. or Madison Street are other examples. 101st Airborne Divsion Pkwy and its extensions would make a nice bicycle ride but you only have the road (with increasing traffic) and a shoulder. Riding along the Cumberland River would be a great ride with the River on your right and the city on your left but one cannot ride on the Riverwalk which leaves Riverside Drive and there is no sidewalk on Riverside Drive insofar as my recollection. One must just try to brave traffic, I guess.

So, C'mon Clarksville officials - provide these things and make your city a little more liveable and encouraging to healthy activities. You have a city which stretches for over 20 miles so why not LIGHT THAT SUCKA UP with adequate, modern street lights rather than some token light stuck on a telephone pole every quarter mile?

Unrelated but kind of shows the contrast within Clarksville: Yesterday the Mississippie Queen docked in Clarksville and some 350 passengers were able to spend the day downtown walking around or shopping. Last night, a man left a nighclub and drove downtown. Two assailants dragged him out of his vehicle, took his money and stabbed him 12 times then drove off in his vehicle.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Fallingwater

[MidTenn1]

Hello Lexy,

Since I do enjoy riding my bicycle on occasion for pleasure, my question to anyone currently residing in Clarksville is; Where do Clarksvillian's go to ride their bikes or what major road can they safely walk or jog?

Back in the days when I did some serious cycling (15 years and 40 pounds ago), I would participate in some events in Hopkinsville. They held the 'Little River' bike ride every spring and 2,000+ would show up. It featured marked and mapped routes of 31 and 62 miles. There were food and drink stations along the route.

The best thing about it was the terrain. That part of Kentucky is considered an outlier of the American Midwestern Great Plains in that it is flat and was largely treeless and covered with prarie grass until European immigrants arrived and farmed it. And it is flat. Makes for a nonstrenuous, enjoyable bike ride.

Russelville, KY used to promote the 'Tobacco Road' bike ride in October. I did my first Century (100 miles) there. Again, they use a lot of the same flat roads. Maybe they still do it. There might be some bike shops that can tell you where people like to ride, also.

Check these:

Clarksville Cycling Club

Christian County Cycling Club

I don't keep up with that stuff anymore even though I really ought to. Not burning too many calories typing on keyboards.

Edited August 14, 2006 by PHofKS

[Fallingwater]

Back in the days when I did some serious cycling (15 years and 40 pounds ago), I would participate in some events in Hopkinsville. They held the 'Little River' bike ride every spring and 2,000+ would show up. It featured marked and mapped routes of 31 and 62 miles. There were food and drink stations along the route.

The best thing about it was the terrain. That part of Kentucky is considered an outlier of the American Midwestern Great Plains in that it is flat and was largely treeless and covered with prarie grass until European immigrants arrived and farmed it. And it is flat. Makes for a nonstrenuous, enjoyable bike ride.

Russelville, KY used to promote the 'Tobacco Road' bike ride in October. I did my first Century (100 miles) there. Again, they use a lot of the same flat roads. Maybe they still do it. There might be some bike shops that can tell you where people like to ride, also.

Check these:

Clarksville Cycling Club

Christian County Cycling Club

I don't keep up with that stuff anymore even though I really ought to. Not burning too many calories typing on keyboards.

Hello PHofKS,

Well, I am not as avid a cyclist as you were back in the day. I just like to go out around the neighborhood from time to time and have recently discovered riding the Murfreesboro Greenway which is about 14 miles from beginning to end and back.

The link to the Clarksville Club showed that they ride in Sango and Kirkwood. I am unfamiliar with Kirkwood and where it is located. Sango would be a nice fairly rural ride but for how long? That area is being gobbled up with new developments and more and more traffic is coming out that way.

So, judging from the locations of the rides and the photo gallery they provide, their rides seem to take place in rural areas such as can be seen below:

Clarksville, it seems, is not really bike or pedestrian friendly which may be why they go where they do. I think they should at the very least open up the Riverwalk and Upland Trail to bicycles. I would also love to see Clarksville build its new neighborhoods with sidewalks, bike lanes and those little amenities which enhance the quality of life and invite people out of their homes to interact with the greater community. I live on the outskirts of Murfreesboro and every street, every neighborhood has well lit sidewalks (also bike lanes) which are heavily used by the homeowners. It keeps many kids out of the middle of the street and out of danger.

Clarksville, I think, would be such a neat city in which to take a ride (if you don't mind some major hills!) but I can definitely see why the Clarksville Bike Club goes out to the country for their pleasure.

[miami1855]

The Sango bikers usually ride down Sango Road and Dixie Bee Road. It is a rural area, but residential development is growing fast and the roads are heavy with traffic. I know b/c I live in that area.

Kirkwood is the area north of Exit 8, near the outer parts of the extended industrial park.

Edited August 14, 2006 by miami1855

[Justiceham]

I don't see any of these cities reaching 20 stories in the next several decades. These area's are considered suburban and attract suburban style "campuses", which tend to top out around 10 stories. Any company/developer that is serious about an urban highrise tend to lean towards the area's with pre-existing infrastructure. Would you really build a 30 floor high-rise surrounded by 20 acres of surface parking?

Anywho, I voted for Jackson, simply because I see that city (in 50 years maybe) being its own independent MSA. Considering it does not rely on a core city as much as the others do.

P.S.- In my urban dream-world, Murfreesboro grows fast enough, and urban enough, to create a Dallas/Ft. Worth like relationship with Nashville. However, I think 'boro politics and shortmindedness will prevent that from ever happening. Just a random comment

Yeah, a Dallas/Fort Worth relationship would be awesome. Murfreesboro is growing rapidly and as the city annexes more land it will only grow even more. I believe once the population increases another 30k or metro government happens we'll see some (serious) talk about dowtown, until then we'll continue to see sprawl to keep the residents happy. If Murfreesboro went metro today, the pop would be 216,000 and that would bump it up to being the third largest city in TN.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Justiceham

[rocky top buzz]

Wow, the third largeset in Tennessee? But of course, that wouldn't be the case if Knox, Hamilton, and Montgomery went Metro.

Montgomery would probably have the easiest route towards a county metro because they lack large, growing cities with their own identity. I think I've made it clear that I'm opposed to a Murfreesboro/Rutherford county metro.

[Fallingwater]

The Sango bikers usually ride down Sango Road and Dixie Bee Road. It is a rural area, but residential development is growing fast and the roads are heavy with traffic. I know b/c I live in that area.

Kirkwood is the area north of Exit 8, near the outer parts of the extended industrial park.

Oh, okay, thank you. I always just unofficially called that area "Rossview" since Rossview H.S. is in that vicinity. Hehe, I almost accidentally wrote "Kenwood" but that H.S. is out in the New Providence/Ringgold/Ft. Campbell area.

[Justiceham]

Wow, the third largeset in Tennessee? But of course, that wouldn't be the case if Knox, Hamilton, and Montgomery went Metro.

Montgomery would probably have the easiest route towards a county metro because they lack large, growing cities with their own identity. I think I've made it clear that I'm opposed to a Murfreesboro/Rutherford county metro.

Even if Montgomery went metro, that would only be 140,000, so it would still be the fifth largest city. I'm really kind of surprised Memphis and Shelby County have not gone metro yet.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Justiceham

[Fallingwater]

Even if Montgomery went metro, that would only be 140,000, so it would still be the fifth largest city. I'm really kind of surprised Memphis and Shelby County have not gone metro yet.

Justiceham, I stand to be corrected and my conjecture here is not made with a high degree of certainty but I believe Clarksville has voted on Metro a couple of times over the past 20 or so years and it was defeated.

You are correct that Montgomery County would not move up in population position by becoming Metro but I think Rocky Topp Buzz was looking at the Clarksville/Hopkinsville SMSA population rather than Montgomery County itself.

[miami1855]

In my mind, the possible Metro of Montgomery County would not be to benefit the population, but more as a "nearing" to Nashville. Metro Clarksville would technically be 15 miles or more closer to Nashville than the current city limits are. Clarksville has always had the stigma of being too far away from Nashville to be considered a "suburb."