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Snowguy716

Your thoughts on the terrorist plot

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I think it's all rather convenient.

Here are some of the things that make me think a little more:

We haven't seen any suspects. They're making roundups in Pakistan and in Britain... but I"m guessing most of them will be let go without any charges.

All news reports are saying that the attacks were planned for the next few weeks and that the suspects arrested hadn't purchased airline tickets... yet we're upping security today and taking water away from passengers.. and that is only expected to last the next few days. And you can carry water on flights from anywhere else to the U.S except England.

People saw printouts all over in the London tube telling you how to deal with the delays caused by this, indicating that the transit authority in London has known about this for some time.. enough time to put out detailed posters all over the city on how to deal with the delays.

You can carry luggage onto the plane flying from the U.S to Britain, but not from Britain to America....

Tony Blair, who knew about this ahead of time, is on vacation and has made no plans on coming back early.

George Bush has called the plotters fascists, introducing a new "hot" word to his names for terrorists.

These plots may very well have been real and probably were.. but I'm starting to sense a bit of the boy who cried wolf. We have elections coming up and it's not looking good for Blair or Bush's party...

I think either

A) It's a huge conspiracy to keep Americans in fear and blindly following our "leaders" (very unlikely)

B) A real plot with a real bust from British intelligence that is being blown WAY out of proportion by British and American governments to benefit themselves politically

C) I read too much into conspiracies and let my imagination get carried away (most likely)

But hey, I will not be afraid. I will make sure to tell everyone to get to the airports extra early, and will complain to the proper authorities if airlines aren't giving liquids out to passengers for free WHEN they want them....

ANd I certainly won't be changing my mind about who to vote for or who to support because we're fighting "Muslim fascists" in a "war" and this "code red alert" should "remind me" of that.

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i think it's a ploy. i'm sick of the DHS and the colored threat level crap that will never ever go below yellow so long as the current administration is in power. i'm sick of hearing about terrorists and the dumb people who think their flights are less safe.

i think it's stupid that they banned liquids and stuff in carry ons. here's some amusing stuff from boingboing regarding the ban... apparently TSA people are just dumping "potentially explosive" liquids into bins in the middle of crowded airports. go figure...

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Hopefully, we'll be back to code yellow by the time I fly for vacation this fall! My trip in summer was completely uneventful. I definitely don't like the looks of things at the airports right now.

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Me, I'm getting tired of this. Give me air time, I'd moon them and insult them the best way I know how. Enough hatred already! You're not really making a point, you're just being idiots.

And Bush, hiding behind the "they want to take away our freedoms" crap. I never heard any of them express hatred toward our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, or any federal, state, or local laws promoting our freedoms and rights. If they make a plan to kidnap our important documents, then I'd believe that... not like we use them these days anyway.

Had we not stationed our troops in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, we probably wouldn't have angered Goatface. And I'm sure others felt we didn't respect the county of their holy lands. And about Israel... why the heck can't they accept they have a devinely proclaimed title to the land too... just share it. You're just cousins anyway, learn to live together. And we need to stop being big brother and doing what we can to alienate ourselves from the rest of the world.

It's not religion, it's not culture, it's politics. But they like to wrap the others into it. America doesn't want to kill Muslims or hate their culture... however I do believe not every place deserves seeds of democracy. Some cultures we can't change. We would have a fit if the French came over and tried to turn us into Frenchmen. We were scared to death of communism coming over here and changing things... I guess that's how some feel now too. It's always for our own gains and profit, nothing equal or hey... you have yours and we have ours over here... let's be friends and be happy. But I am really tired of the us and them I'm right... no, I'm right bickering going on. It causes such nonsense.

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Upon hearing this for the first time, I immediately became furious at the Islamic extremists.

But after a few minutes, it also dawned on me that this could just be a mass ploy.....with Carl Rove at the healm ANYTHING is possible. Carl Rove is capable of ANYTHING! The man had flyers accusing John McCain of all sorts of nonsense put on cars at Baptist churches in S.C. during the primaries....talk about scum of the earth.

My intuition says watch this closely. It could be just another bit of b.s. thrown in to soften Bush's horrendous approval poll numbers.

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I hate to say this, but it's probably election year posturing. I don't believe anything I hear from Bush and company.

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I agree with everything already posted and will add that I was not surprised to see the administration spin what was a British success in foiling the plot into something they want to take credit for. And of course try and connect it to Iraq to play up their national security credentials and smear Democrats. I just hope Americans are not so dumb that they will fall for it again. I am not too hopeful though.

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Sometimes i wonder if Bush even knows the words he uses, like fascist. Im counting down the days until he is out of office unless someone in DC is brave enough to impeach him for lying too many times about what hes done

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Keep in mind that this is a British case, NOT an american one. The response in the US, at least by the general public (not the media) has been tepid at best, which really shows how bad off the US government is at understanding the public.

I will say I have had my doubts about the legitimacy, but I think the threat was real, although possibly a little exagerated. What I think has happened is that the government has taken advantage of that to promote more of it's fear and war mongering. I also think they are going to take advantage of this as an excuse for poor airline performance and still not support any new transportation technologies.

The question is, when does the person using fear of terrorism and religious hatred as a means to limit public freedoms and use public money for personal goals become more a terrorist than the terrorists themselves? We are getting ourselves into a religious war, the question is how do prevent one from happening when you have two opposing parties intent on creating one?

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I personally think Bush/Cheney is the worst administration since Ullyses S. Grant. Bush is sooooooooooooooooo far over his head it's simply amazing. Almost pathetic, if it wasn't for the fact that he is in charge of our country's security~~

Something none of you has probably heard: Even though I think 99% of the dribble out of Bush's mouth is pure b.s., I do have to agree with him when he says "they hate our freedom".

For people in the Middle East who believe these 11th Century dogmas they embrace, the thought of a woman having equal rights as a man is absurd. Women must be kept in their place, including corporal punishment as a means. Women and men can't even talk to each other! In some of the Arab countries women are forced to dress as bee keepers.

Women are generally not allowed an equal education. Women are killed for adultery, and men are tortured for it. No freedom of the press, of speech, of religion, the list goes on and on.......

These warped minds see the West as corrupt, indecent, worthy of scorn for "allowing" the things they disallow. They see us as Satan, and one of the reasons is because of our "decadence".

Bush is a nitwit with an IQ probably under 100, but I do have to agree with him when he says they hate our freedom. Of course this is one of many reasons they hate the West---troops in Saudi Arabia, support of Isreal, bad history with Britain and France, and now the U.S....and the list goes on and on.....

Hating our freedom is only one part of it, but it is definitely a component.

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Keep in mind that there are many moderate Muslim nations out there, Tunisia and Morocco being two perfect examples.

I knew a girl from Morocco that lived next to me this spring in Austria. She's studying to be a lawyer and has equal chances to excel in her country. She blames the terrorism on extremists and was very disappointed in the extreme wing of her own religion.

Her father was a devout Muslim whom I saw praying several times. It was actually really cool to see. He never judged me for being an American or an infidel, and we actually all had several meals together (I'd cook American things, and they MOraccan things)

It was quite an experience and it showed me that while the terrorists hate our freedom, Muslims certainly do not.. and like the very far right fringe of Christian extremists in our country (like Phelps and such), they should not have the loudest voice.

I think it's time for moderate Muslims to wake up and be heard loud and clear. God is only as hateful as you make him out to be.

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No President is ever going to be perfect. It's very understandable to question Bush and the mistakes with some of whats going on. But to act like the Clinton was great in his time is an absolute joke. The U.S. better pray long and hard for the next one in 08'. I do not understand is how Bush gets the blame for 9-11 when he just entered office. Clinton knew about Osama bin Laden for 8 years(1993 WTC bombing). The Sudan tried to hand his head on a silver platter to the U.S. in the mid-90's and all that was done was accidentally bombing an asprin factory.

The Jihadist radicals detected a weak infidel America, with a so-called "glass-jaw." A paper champion full of hypocrites. They blew up U.S. and other Embassy's, etc...;the U.S.S. Cole off the coast of Yemen. And many other warning signals. WHAT WAS DONE ?? The jealous Jihadist said " we still do not have America's undivided attention".... >> then 9-11

So many are jealous of the blessed U.S.A. And the U.S. is not a weak little infidel with it's little tail between it's legs. What would have happend had America not interveined in WWII ? Who do you really think would rule the world ?

Most of the World hates the U.S. anyway. So the importance to protect Israel remains. Our only friends we have are the ones we $buy and send aid too. If we stop, will they still be our friends??? The John Kerry's of the world will turn our country into another France. And I hope that does not happen. It won't.

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Something none of you has probably heard: Even though I think 99% of the dribble out of Bush's mouth is pure b.s., I do have to agree with him when he says "they hate our freedom".

....

These warped minds see the West as corrupt, indecent, worthy of scorn for "allowing" the things they disallow. They see us as Satan, and one of the reasons is because of our "decadence".

Bush is a nitwit with an IQ probably under 100, but I do have to agree with him when he says they hate our freedom. Of course this is one of many reasons they hate the West---troops in Saudi Arabia, support of Isreal, bad history with Britain and France, and now the U.S....and the list goes on and on.....

Hating our freedom is only one part of it, but it is definitely a component.

Muslems don't hate our freedom, our society or our culture. What they do hate is our support of despotic regimes that keep them from having the freedoms that we do have in the west. The Saudi Royal Family, which is hated by the general population, could not exist without direct security support from the USA. This breeds a lot of resentment amongst the population that does not share in the oil wealth of that country and is one of the reasons the majority of the 9-11 terrorists that attacked NYC came from there. This is repeated in a number of other countries in the Middle East.

Bush's spewing of inflammitory terms such as "islamic facists" are hateful words that anger people which is the cheap way to detract from the fact that he has completely failed at foreign policy. A real leader would not do this and it is reminiscent of him spouting off "Bring It On" in reference to terrorists attacking America. Statements such as this get innocent people killed and do nothing to solve the problem.

Terrorism is ended by ending the conditions that cause it to happen in the first place. War mongering, beyond making a lot of priviledged people rich, only makes terrorism worse. Since Bush has been in office we have blown up Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Lebanon & the Gaza Stip (via proxy with Israel). It should not be too difficult for anyone to put 2 & 2 together to figure out there might be a relationship between this and the rise in the terrorists from this part of the world.

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Sometimes i wonder if Bush even knows the words he uses, like fascist.

the Irony is that the Bush administration itself epitomizes the very definition of fascism. I don't even mean that as a slur or an attack. Look at the emotionally neutral dictionary definition of the word "fascism," and look at the policies and rhetoric of the administration. It fits to a tee.

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Muslems don't hate our freedom, our society or our culture. What they do hate is our support of despotic regimes that keep them from having the freedoms that we do have in the west. The Saudi Royal Family, which is hated by the general population, could not exist without direct security support from the USA. This breeds a lot of resentment amongst the population that does not share in the oil wealth of that country and is one of the reasons the majority of the 9-11 terrorists that attacked NYC came from there. This is repeated in a number of other countries in the Middle East.

Bush's spewing of inflammitory terms such as "islamic facists" are hateful words that anger people which is the cheap way to detract from the fact that he has completely failed at foreign policy. A real leader would not do this and it is reminiscent of him spouting off "Bring It On" in reference to terrorists attacking America. Statements such as this get innocent people killed and do nothing to solve the problem.

Terrorism is ended by ending the conditions that cause it to happen in the first place. War mongering, beyond making a lot of priviledged people rich, only makes terrorism worse. Since Bush has been in office we have blown up Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Lebanon & the Gaza Stip (via proxy with Israel). It should not be too difficult for anyone to put 2 & 2 together to figure out there might be a relationship between this and the rise in the terrorists from this part of the world.

So whats the excuse for the airplane hijacking in the 80's, Marine barricks in Lebanon and also the murder of innocent jewish athletes in the olympics? There are Islamic extremist and Americans need to wake up. Thats not saying that all muslims want to destroy America. It states in the Quran to murder anyone that does not convert.

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Women are killed for adultery, and men are tortured for it.

Hillary asks what's wrong with that last part?

Heck I think adultery needs to be handled more forcefully than it is now and you don't want to know what I have in mind.

This isn't as free of a country as everyone thinks, and this administration doesn't even seem to know that we have a Constitution. But heck even some of the far right doesn't believe in equality for women. It's just not as strict as their culture.

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So whats the excuse for the airplane hijacking in the 80's, Marine barricks in Lebanon and also the murder of innocent jewish athletes in the olympics? There are Islamic extremist and Americans need to wake up. Thats not saying that all muslims want to destroy America. It states in the Quran to murder anyone that does not convert.

If you look at those individual events, they all point back to what I said before. If you concentrate millions of people in a small amount of area because you have taken away their land and place a government over their heads that won't give them any economic opportunity or future, then you create the conditions where terrorism is born. And yes you are correct, innocent people die. I think I said that too. It doesn't matter if it is the Palestians under Israel control or millions of Arabs living under despots supported by the USA.

There is no excuse for terrorism and I don't understand why you would think I was suggesting otherwise. I explained why terrorism is happening and what has to happen to stop it. Our current leadership has no interest in this approach because the "war on terror" is only a free ticket to wage real war. (war makes people rich) The fact that we are 5 years and 4 wars past 9/11 is proof enough of that. You can't fight a terrorist movement with military might. If anything, that makes it worse.

BTW, I can give you plenty of quotes in the Christian Bible that have been used to justify horrible actions against people, especially those of other religions. Your comment about the Quran is misguided and it does nothing but paint people of an faith as nothing more than murderers. The reality is that neither the Bible nor the Quran have anything to do with why we have terrorists, but people who don't want to admit that we have a hand in its creation, like to use this as an excuse. A very wrong one.

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So whats the excuse for the airplane hijacking in the 80's, Marine barricks in Lebanon and also the murder of innocent jewish athletes in the olympics? There are Islamic extremist and Americans need to wake up. Thats not saying that all muslims want to destroy America. It states in the Quran to murder anyone that does not convert

Thank you Russ. Thank you. Nobody remembers the 80's...??

Who can doubt their ultimate objective with their perverted views of God. We need to understand the temper of the times. No body bothered to read my post about what happened in the 90's...yet it's Bush's administations fault.

And this isn't about "civil rights" and consitutional protection. These people use our Constitution to protect themselves so they can kill us. And this decidely is not a game. It is life and death. We want to live, they want us dead ! Any questions? What happens when nuclear devices start to explode in major U.S. cities ?

If we hate America this bad, why don't we just leave ?

How much more inhumane is blowing up buses, planes and subway trains ?

Why the hatred of these people; target Israel. Is coexistence futile ? No such thing as coexist or peace process. Exterminate, proclaim your Jihad, destroy the infidel, dig your own grave ! Unleashed chosen

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Bush has now linked Hezbollah with Iraq, Afghanistan, and the plotters who allegedly were to use liquid explosives to blow up U.S bound planes from Britain...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4787207.stm

All I read is "What I'm doing as President is right and if you vote for democrats this fall the terrorists will blow up your house and rape your wife and kill your children. As long as you're afraid, you'll vote for my party, so it is very important that you are afraid as long as I'm in office."

Well, Mr. President, I am afraid. I'm afraid of what two more years of your leadership means for this country, whether the Democrats take control of congress this fall (which they will), or not.

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Thank you Russ. Thank you. Nobody remembers the 80's...??

Who can doubt their ultimate objective with their perverted views of God. We need to understand the temper of the times. No body bothered to read my post about what happened in the 90's...yet it's Bush's administations fault.

And this isn't about "civil rights" and consitutional protection. These people use our Constitution to protect themselves so they can kill us. And this decidely is not a game. It is life and death. We want to live, they want us dead ! Any questions? What happens when nuclear devices start to explode in major U.S. cities ?

If we hate America this bad, why don't we just leave ?

How much more inhumane is blowing up buses, planes and subway trains ?

Why the hatred of these people; target Israel. Is coexistence futile ? No such thing as coexist or peace process. Exterminate, proclaim your Jihad, destroy the infidel, dig your own grave ! Unleashed chosen

Yes, Clinton made some mistakes. He had the chance to take out Bin Laden several times and he decided against it because he felt it was morally despicible to kill the children that were constantly around bin Laden in the camps he was at. Clinton found him several times on satellite and ordered against his death because of children.

But the NeoCons would have killed him anyway.. even if it meant the death of a few miserable Muslim kids, right? Yeah, it's alright if they die... as long as it's for the greater good of America.

To me, what Clinton did was right. What Bush has done is wrong. He has come so close to getting bin Laden.. and then he let him escape into the mountains.. and now we don't hear anything about bin Laden and Bush is pulling money out of Afghanistan for Iraq... AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE HIM!

I get so sick of this "Well, Clinton didn't get him either so that justifies Bush's incompetence and inaction"... When you criticize Bush, it doesn't mean you are automatically praising Clinton somehow as being better (even though he was)... Bush is not vying for just being worse than Clinton.. he's vying for being the worst ever... comparing him to Clinton is like comparing Apples and lice...

I don't look at the situation as life and death. And I don't think we should curb our civil liberties and live in fear because some idiots in the middle east hell bent on making the world Islam. If you want to live in countries that "protect you" by taking your civil liberties away.. then move to China or Uzbekistan or North Korea.. pick your choice. Then you can elect all the George Bush's you want (or maybe just install one as dictator, since he can do no wrong)...

And I'll continue to hope for a country where:

We don't go around policing the world.

We don't prop up "democratic regimes" and export free-market policies that we don't even have that allow a small minority to amass a huge amount of wealth and leave the other 95% left in abject poverty.. which breeds terrorism (read: Indonesia, Cambodia, most of central and South America)

we don't call other countries an Axis of Evil and unilaterally invade and occupy countries that have no proven link to terrorism or WMDs.

Where civil liberties are kept in tact no matter the 'threat' from terrorists.

And where farmers and workers and little people have a say in their government without being exploited and misled.... and where crazed rich "Christian" neoCons can say and do what they want in their churches, but have no right to try and force their closed-minded narrow, fascist interpretation of the Bible on the rest of the country.

Is it so much to ask? Apparently so.

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Sometimes i wonder if Bush even knows the words he uses, like fascist. Im counting down the days until he is out of office unless someone in DC is brave enough to impeach him for lying too many times about what hes done

If Bush can't spell it or pronounce it, it's a good bet he doesn't know what it really means....

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Thank you Russ. Thank you. Nobody remembers the 80's...??

Who can doubt their ultimate objective with their perverted views of God. We need to understand the temper of the times. No body bothered to read my post about what happened in the 90's...yet it's Bush's administations fault.

I am sure that people have read your post, I did. Nobody is responding to it because you are choosing to make excuses for Bush rather than to address the issue. Bringing up Clinton and WWII in an attempt to legitimize Bush's record is really a waste of our time in this discussion. If you are interested in stoping terrorism it might help to try and understand what motivates these people to commit suicide in terrorist attacks instead of repeating the rhetoric of a failed President.

And for the record, I have been around long enough to remember when the '72 Munich bombing that was the world's first major terrorist event that involved the Middleeast. And if military force could be used to stop terrorism then, then the Munich bombing would have been the last one. It doesn't work. It has already been demonstrated time and time again that bombs don't stop terrorists and Bush should be working with the rest of the world to stop it. The fact of the matter is that Bush's "War on Terror" is doing nothing to make us safer from terrorism because it simply does not address the root cause of why there is terrorism in the first place.

The rest of the world does not hate us as you claim, but under Bush, they have certainly become afraid of us. The sad fact of the matter, much of the world is more afraid of the USA than of terrorists.

As I said in another thread, the USA used to export hope to the rest of the world, now, under Bush and the neo-cons, we export fear. And when people are scared they do something about it which is why the threat of terrorism is increasing.

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As I said in another thread, the USA used to export hope to the rest of the world, now, under Bush and the neo-cons, we export fear. And when people are scared they do something about it which is why the threat of terrorism is increasing.

I am afraid that this exporting of American fear has done nothing but to plague us with the scourge of terrorism for many years to come. It is going to take us years if not decades to undo the damage of the current administration to America's image in the world.

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Thank you Russ. Thank you. Nobody remembers the 80's...??

Who can doubt their ultimate objective with their perverted views of God. We need to understand the temper of the times. No body bothered to read my post about what happened in the 90's...yet it's Bush's administations fault.

And this isn't about "civil rights" and consitutional protection. These people use our Constitution to protect themselves so they can kill us. And this decidely is not a game. It is life and death. We want to live, they want us dead ! Any questions? What happens when nuclear devices start to explode in major U.S. cities ?

If we hate America this bad, why don't we just leave ?

How much more inhumane is blowing up buses, planes and subway trains ?

Like I said, there are many people who really want this to be come a religious war - good versus evil and exterminate the heretics.

Who is the real terrorist, using fear and hatred to justify killing and taking away freedoms?

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