New Orleans' identical twin

[L-Beware]

What similar about the two. Does Mobile look like NO?

[AlabamaGuy2007]

What similar about the two. Does Mobile look like NO?

Nope, haha, sure doesn't. I'm talking more of culture and history. Both cities are major major ports, they were hugely important during the Civil War. 5 Flags. They're just those old cajun feel towns. Spanish moss, live oaks, water, Southern all around.

[NCB]

What similar about the two. Does Mobile look like NO?

For the most part, no. Mobile and New Orleans are mostly connected by their locations and early histories. Now, the cities are quite a bit different, especially in culture and size. Of course now they're connected by things like Mardi Gras and their ports, but in modern times, there's not really much else.

As for cities on the list, again, I say Memphis. I love Houston, but apart from the oil industry, it's just nothing like New Orleans.

They're just those old cajun feel towns.

Just a bit of FYI, New Orleans isn't a Cajun city, never has been. New Orleans is Creole, the real Cajun influence is located about 150 miles west and beyond.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

For the most part, no. Mobile and New Orleans are mostly connected by their locations and early histories. Now, the cities are quite a bit different, especially in culture and size. Of course now they're connected by things like Mardi Gras and their ports, but in modern times, there's not really much else.

As for cities on the list, again, I say Memphis. I love Houston, but apart from the oil industry, it's just nothing like New Orleans.

Yea, that's more correct. You explained it better. The cities have really grown apart from eachother. Both are taking a more modern turn though. But, the original Mardi Gras in Mobile is more family oriented, and the larger one in NO is more adult oriented. I love NO, but I also love Mobile.

[UptownNewOrleans]

Only thing I dont like about Memphis is how country they talk. They talk real country. We dont talk like that.

When you compare the two cities rap game though, they got more similarities with their underground, local rap scenes in the 90's, than CMB/No Limit and 3-6 do.

Both Memphis and N.O. had literally hundreds of local to underground music coming out in the mid-late 90's. I got a huge collection from both cities, especially New Orleans.

Also Memphis doesnt really have projects like that. Their projects look like apartments or something. When you look at ours, you can tell they were made around the same time, and by the same company as whoever did most of the ones in New Orleans.

Like that St. Thomas look like our Wilson Street Project

STP

WSP

or dat St. Bernard

and then the Nolia look like our Back To Green Projects.

BTG

Great pics. For a minute, the 2nd pic of St. Bernard looked almost like the Magnolia. New Orleans projects are built differently than most cities' public housing developments. New Orleans has some of America's very first housing projects, the oldest two being the Calliope & Magnolia, both of which were built in 1941. Whereas projects in most cities get fixed up every 5-10 or so years, our housing projects haven't been fixed up in 15, 20, or even 25 years. You can see the decay in some buildings, and even some rats (yes I said rats). The thing about New Orleans projects is that we represent our housing projects. You got folk shouting out Magnolia, Melph, Calliope, St. Bernard, Fisher, Florida, Lafitte, Iberville, etc. It's a sense of pride that folk have about their housing development. To outsiders that signals they don't want to better themselves, but for the residents themselves it's their way of being proud of having a roof over their heads. Folk can represent their project to the point where fights are started, and then bullets start flying.

[NCB]

But, the original Mardi Gras in Mobile is more family oriented, and the larger one in NO is more adult oriented. I love NO, but I also love Mobile.

I would say that the "original" Mardi Gras, at least in the U.S., is in both Mobile and New Orleans. I could care less which city started it a few years before the other, because both cities have been celebrating Mardi Gras for over 300 years now. The Mardi Gras in New Orleans and Mobile is the original, the Mardi Gras in places like Galveston and Saint Louis, not so much...

Also, I'm not sure if you've ever been to Mardi Gras in New Orleans, but I would say that many parts of New Orleans' Mardi Gras are just as family friendly as Mobile's. The image that is associated with Mardi Gras in New Orleans is beer, beads, and boobs, and there is certainly good reason for that. Believe me, I grew up in the Quarter, I know! But, once you're out of the French Quarter, or even just Bourbon Street, nearly all of that, at least at extreme levels(drinking) stops. Mardi Gras in New Orleans is family friendly pretty much anywhere in the city, as long as you stay out of the Quarter.

[L-Beware]

Great pics. For a minute, the 2nd pic of St. Bernard looked almost like the Magnolia. New Orleans projects are built differently than most cities' public housing developments. New Orleans has some of America's very first housing projects, the oldest two being the Calliope & Magnolia, both of which were built in 1941. Whereas projects in most cities get fixed up every 5-10 or so years, our housing projects haven't been fixed up in 15, 20, or even 25 years. You can see the decay in some buildings, and even some rats (yes I said rats). The thing about New Orleans projects is that we represent our housing projects. You got folk shouting out Magnolia, Melph, Calliope, St. Bernard, Fisher, Florida, Lafitte, Iberville, etc. It's a sense of pride that folk have about their housing development. To outsiders that signals they don't want to better themselves, but for the residents themselves it's their way of being proud of having a roof over their heads. Folk can represent their project to the point where fights are started, and then bullets start flying.

Thats not only in N.O. homie. Rats are in the projects everywhere. And cities all over the world people represent their projects. Thats not only America, thats everywhere in the world. Most projects are rundown and decay, thats why most of them are getting torn down. Thats not only in New Orleans. Thats everywhere.

The first projects built in NO were the St. Thomas then the Nolia then the Calio. And New Orleans projects werent really the first built. Atlanta got the oldest projects in Techwood (they tore down for the '96 Olympics), and University Homes which is the first white and black housing projects in the country respectively.

The St. T were the first in New Orleans, which were the white projects, and the Magnolia was for blacks. Like even our projects, Wilson Street Project which real name is the Robert Mills Manor, was built in 1939. They were the projects for whites (just like St. Thomas) and then Meeting Street Manor (Johnson Street Projects) was also built in 1939. Matter fact most of ours were built in 39.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

I would say that the "original" Mardi Gras, at least in the U.S., is in both Mobile and New Orleans. I could care less which city started it a few years before the other, because both cities have been celebrating Mardi Gras for over 300 years now. The Mardi Gras in New Orleans and Mobile is the original, the Mardi Gras in places like Galveston and Saint Louis, not so much...

Also, I'm not sure if you've ever been to Mardi Gras in New Orleans, but I would say that many parts of New Orleans' Mardi Gras are just as family friendly as Mobile's. The image that is associated with Mardi Gras in New Orleans is beer, beads, and boobs, and there is certainly good reason for that. Believe me, I grew up in the Quarter, I know! But, once you're out of the French Quarter, or even just Bourbon Street, nearly all of that, at least at extreme levels(drinking) stops. Mardi Gras in New Orleans is family friendly pretty much anywhere in the city, as long as you stay out of the Quarter.

Yea, I was just making a huge generalization, if I used that in context. I just based my opinion on what visiters to the NO Mardi Gras have told me. They said that Mobile was MORE family oriented. So, I dunno, I guess they wouldn't use the word MORE if there wasn't any family orientation to the MG in NO.

[TSmith]

Damn L-Beware... you know a lot about projects. You really think that these projects being "represented" in Rap music is because these guys are happy to have a roof over their heads? I gotta doubt that my man... seems like more of a rivalry thing to me. But I'll yield my time to you on that one.

[L-Beware]

Go back and show me where I ever said that. I didnt say that. UptownNewOrleans said that.

You got your people mixed up.

[UptownNewOrleans]

What he was getting at is when rappers rep their projects, they do it so as to not forget where they came from. It's more of a rags-to-riches type story, it's their way of showing love to the housing development that made them who they are.

[TSmith]

Go back and show me where I ever said that. I didnt say that. UptownNewOrleans said that.

You got your people mixed up.

Yep, I sure did get yall mixed up. Apologies.

[TSmith]

it's their way of showing love to the housing development that made them who they are.

To me, it's their talent who made them who they are. The projects in N.O. are a broken system that breeds violence and fear. They get their material from there... I'll give you that. To them, the projects are a badge of courage and rising above... that they overcame the odds and came out on top... and now, a source of material. If they really loved the projects, they'd still live there.

I hope I don't offend anyone... but I'm no N.O. project sympathizer. I firmly believe that the projects were one of the two main failures in New Orleans. The people that lived there needed better surroundings and institutions to succeed, and had they had it, we probably wouldn't be talking about this. Imagine... as a kid...living in the projects and trying to get ahead by going to Orleans Parish schools. It's borderline sinful that they've had so little available to them to better their lives.

[L-Beware]

It is. But at the same time you got professional lawyers, doctors, senators, congressman, dentists, judges, every respectable profession you can name of people, that have come from all of New Orleans housing projects.

So even though it was a setup of failure, that wasnt all that it was. Just as you have that you have many people that live respectable, honest, hard-working, tax-paying lives that dont contribute to the violence. And that should also be acknowledged and respected.

And given the situation now, St. Bernard, Iberville, Lafitte and the BW Cooper shouldnt be torn down, seeing as how scarce housing in New Orleans is. They should allow people to move back into their homes until they can get back on their feet. These people have leases and pay their rent and taxes just like everybody else.

You cant punish the good for the sake of the bad. Especially given New Orleans situation right now. The crime is just like its always been right now. No better no worse. And tearing down the projects wont fix the problem.

And far as UptownNewOrleans is concerned, people reppin their projects is no different than anything else. It has nothing to do with rags to riches. People were repping their projects before they got riches. Its just repping where you come from. Just like Americans repping America and having American pride or any place else.

[krazeeboi]

^However, I will say that there is a difference between representation and glorification, and glorification of all of the ills that that were present in one's neighborhood at that. Next thing you know, one group "reppin' their hood" wants to take out another group doing the same thing. Sad but true. At any rate, I digress.

As far as the projects go, I say tear them down. I would rather the folks who lived there be able to find adequate housing in another city than to come back to those things. Concentrated poverty is a horrible thing. Sure, demolishing them won't be the magic bullet, but it will be a great start. You'd be surprised what effect the built environment has on the disposition of a community.

[L-Beware]

These people had leases previous to the levees breaking. They have every right to come back to their apartments as any and everybody else does. Using Katrina, criminals, or any other excuse to tear these peoples rightful homes down is a public disservice. Not to mention its just flat out wrong. They, nor their homes are any less important than anybody else. They have the right to come back to their homes. Like I said, those same projects churn out success and honest hardworking people too. If you want to fix the conditions fix the conditions. Fix the educational system, the lack of jobs and the pathetic wages the common man is making. But dont deny people their right to come back and live in their homes just because the hurricane blew them all away.

Bottom line is if New Orleanians allow these people to tear down the few remaining projects at a time like this, that will be the key indication right there that you all can kiss any hopes of getting a good bit of your Black people back goodbye. Those that couldve come back to their apartments wont have anywhere or thing to come back to. I see it first hand in my city. And as far as New Orleans is concerned, housing is everything right now. Crime is there with or without the projects. This is a FACT. No way they should use that excuse to tear these peoples homes down that there is little damage to and nothing wrong with.

[krazeeboi]

Sorry, but I can't defend the projects. I have nothing against public housing, but projects are simply an embarassment to those who live there and to the community at large. It's nothing more than warehousing the poor. Mixed-income housing is a far more superior way to do things, and that's been proven; THIS should be the city's focus. Sure the projects have churned out successful folks, but what is the proportion of successful people to criminals that have been produced? Furthermore, the successful people leave (if they're smart). In other words, from a societal perspective, the projects have done more harm than good. They should have never been built to begin with. I would much rather see the honest, hardworking folks who occupied these places get a new start in another place where their only option of housing isn't a poor people's warehouse.

[L-Beware]

Im not arguing AGAINST that fact. Im trying to tell you that Im dealing with truth and facts. Not what we would be an ideal situation.

The truth is that if they allow this to be an excuse to NOT let people back in their homes, condemn and tear down perfectly good apartments (that were all recently renovated by the way) these people will NOT be able to come back to New Orleans.

Theyre not wanted back frankly, and the same people that are pushing to have the projects all closed right now are the same people that dont want that demographic back. So if they use Katrina as an excuse to close down perfectly good housing, the people can kiss their chances of coming back home goodbye.

And thats the truth. So in the context of this situation, using Katrina as an excuse to close down the projects is just a good scapegoat to push gentrification and these people out of the city.

Point blank.

[TSmith]

Theyre not wanted back frankly, and the same people that are pushing to have the projects all closed right now are the same people that dont want that demographic back. So if they use Katrina as an excuse to close down perfectly good housing, the people can kiss their chances of coming back home goodbye.

And thats the truth. So in the context of this situation, using Katrina as an excuse to close down the projects is just a good scapegoat to push gentrification and these people out of the city.

Point blank.

Do you honestly believe this? That's sort of a "they bombed the levees" kind of mentality. If we can all agree that the projects are a bad system, then what's the problem here? Low-density mixed income has been proven a better alternative, and the feds are ready to deliver. We have a golden opportunity to replace these communities with BETTER communities, courtesy of Uncle Sam. This won't happen again.

Look, how about a compromise? Allow them to move back to, say, half of them, but with an agreement to replace these things? While they live in one half of our huge number of projects here, the feds could be demolishing the others and building new communities. When that half is done, move 'em in. Then, start on the other half.

I agree with you that it is a shame that these people are kept away, as they do have a right to return. But as tenants of these projects, they really have no rights at all. They are at the whim of their landlord... the federal government. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing. What we should be doing is urging the feds to move FASTER to complete these communities so these people can come home to a better life.

[UptownNewOrleans]

Sorry, but I can't defend the projects. I have nothing against public housing, but projects are simply an embarassment to those who live there and to the community at large. It's nothing more than warehousing the poor. Mixed-income housing is a far more superior way to do things, and that's been proven; THIS should be the city's focus. Sure the projects have churned out successful folks, but what is the proportion of successful people to criminals that have been produced? Furthermore, the successful people leave (if they're smart). In other words, from a societal perspective, the projects have done more harm than good. They should have never been built to begin with. I would much rather see the honest, hardworking folks who occupied these places get a new start in another place where their only option of housing isn't a poor people's warehouse.

In earlier decades public housing was much more working-class, middle-class & white than it is now. The reason why public housing has such a bad rep is that people with recourse left, only leaving the most destitute. Another two reasons that led to the decline of the projects was policy decisions: 1. People could pay no more than 25% of their income for public housing and 2: City housing agencies didn't screen residents, which meant that criminals could come on the property and do their dirt.

[krazeeboi]

Im not arguing AGAINST that fact. Im trying to tell you that Im dealing with truth and facts. Not what we would be an ideal situation.

The truth is that if they allow this to be an excuse to NOT let people back in their homes, condemn and tear down perfectly good apartments (that were all recently renovated by the way) these people will NOT be able to come back to New Orleans.

Theyre not wanted back frankly, and the same people that are pushing to have the projects all closed right now are the same people that dont want that demographic back. So if they use Katrina as an excuse to close down perfectly good housing, the people can kiss their chances of coming back home goodbye.

And thats the truth. So in the context of this situation, using Katrina as an excuse to close down the projects is just a good scapegoat to push gentrification and these people out of the city.

Point blank.

You have a point, but I would actually choose the alternative. The projects do indeed have law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but entirely too many lazy, unmotivated, criminally-bent people as well. Given the choice between the projects in New Orleans and better options elsewhere, I say let them start over elsewhere. Some of these people need a new start. Call me crazy (as my name suggests), but I believe Katrina will prove to be a blessing in disguise in this regard, and it already has for some.

UptownNewOrleans, good points. There were also a few more reasons as well, due to policy in some cases, like relaxing the rules governing welfare.

[UptownNewOrleans]

Katrina was definitely a blessing in many ways. Someone told me the name Katrina means to cleanse, and by that definition Hurricane Katrina cleansed New Orleans of the criminality & unfettered poverty. In New Orleans rapper B.G.'s words "Yeah, New Orleans gone, yeah New Orleans f***ed" but at the same time, we are giving birth to a NEW New Orleans. I'd rather have a New Orleans with much less criminality and poverty than the old N.O., where 3 people were getting shot down every night.

[L-Beware]

A) The crime in New Orleans is the same as it was before Katrina.

B) Which proves my point that it exists with or without the projects.

C) Which is even more reason to allow the grown adults who can make their own decisions and dont need the government to make decisions for them to move back in their homes if they want to.

D) The closing down of the housing projects right now is just the first step in their gentrification plans and them doing their best to keep the residents out of New Orleans for good.

[TSmith]

D) The closing down of the housing projects right now is just the first step in their gentrification plans and them doing their best to keep the residents out of New Orleans for good.

Alright, basically you're crying racism. So, who's the racist? Is it our African American mayor, our African American city council president who has come out in favor of these measures, or our African American head of HUD? I'm confused... clear that one up for me.

[L-Beware]

Im not crying anything. Im saying that the land developers, the people that have BEEN wanting New Orleans, which is no secret to anybody, this is their golden opportunity to change New Orleans into what they want it to be.

And just because somebody happens to be Black doesnt mean their intentions are in favor of their people.