Broadway and 1st Condos

[ccbarnes]

Just to refute that comment, on any given weekend you may see a very sucessful young real estate broker at Bob's sports bar shooting pool. Bob's defines hole in the wall. You may run into retired folks with homes on the lake at the silver derby. Everyone loves local bars. And for a good west side businesses check out Mieras Family Shoes. They aren't selling Uggs to people on welfare.

This is one point that I whole heartedly agree. This area is very much a 'Bucktown'(chicago) area. There's a couple of awesome mexican restaurants, amazing old-world meat markets, antique stores, original and fun bars(Anchor, Broadway Bar, O'Tooles Public House)...acutally I've been to all of these and I am in the $200,000+ housing range.

[OneSweetWorld]

Like I said, this project only helps to diversify the nieghborhood more. But where there's one development, there's more to come. Meaning there are going to be plenty more developments like this on the West Side that are geared toward the upper-class. The only thing I hope for, though, is for those developments to be high-density. I'm talking 5-6+ story apartments and condo buildings. This will help conserve the lower-income homes while also bringing an upper-income demographic to the area. Also, I hope there will soon be more high-density lower-income buildings eventually built west of 131. The only way that is going to happen, though, is for the Planning Commission to some way get a damn clue.

[joeDowntown]

Although I will say that I worked in this neighborhood in the mid 90's (Community Media Center in the top of the Library), and I think it has gotten worse in some ways. Went to the Stockbridge Liquor store and barely made it out alive (literally). The West Side needs a good spit shine, and it's in the path of new development. It's time will come, but it needs something big like this to stabilize the area.

Joe

[twoshort]

Went to the Stockbridge Liquor store and barely made it out alive (literally).

Well now we want to know the story.

[Prankster]

Well now we want to know the story.

Who are you, Oprah?

[GRDadof3]

Here are some images to chew on. I'm not affiliated with this project, so I can't answer any questions. It would be nice to see some larger porches, IMO (but I'm trying to be not so critical).

Elevation

Site plan

[AlexPKeaton]

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen.

I don't care for the parking along 1st Street. And why dont' any units face 1st? There are only east and west facing units, no north or south. The yards are so small they might as well not even bother. This of course calls for the destruction of the church as well.

I'd rather see more of a solid street wall all the way around. Except maybe on 2nd because it faces the freeway and would be the best place to put utilitarian things like driveways and dumpsters and such. And again, I'd like to see them build around the church. I'd rather they didn't even incorporate it into the development in any way. Sure, redevelopment may be a good way to preserve it, but it kind of beotchizes the original structure as well. Ideally the church can be preserved as is and remain a functioning church.

-nb

[Veloise]

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen.

I don't care for the parking along 1st Street. And why dont' any units face 1st? There are only east and west facing units, no north or south. The yards are so small they might as well not even bother. This of course calls for the destruction of the church as well.

I'd rather see more of a solid street wall all the way around. Except maybe on 2nd because it faces the freeway and would be the best place to put utilitarian things like driveways and dumpsters and such. And again, I'd like to see them build around the church. I'd rather they didn't even incorporate it into the development in any way. Sure, redevelopment may be a good way to preserve it, but it kind of beotchizes the original structure as well. Ideally the church can be preserved as is and remain a functioning church.

-nb

From the first page of this:

Existing houses and their front-yard view

It would not be easy to see the freeway from the 2nd-facing units.

Also, why not combine all the yards and have some decent-quality open space to share? Give everyone a patio for a chair, cupholder, and grill, but have a cohoused-style big yard, perhaps save some existing significant trees. (They can drag a beach towel out there and sleep it off, plan their next pub crawl with their neighbors.)

[GaryP]

I like the street wall idea as well. Maybe they could change the site plan to have street facing units along all sides and an interior square of town homes that faces a shared courtyard with BBQ pits and a volleyball court or something like that.

I like the one way street idea.

22x30x3 floors is 1,980 Square feet for $220,000 is $110/sqft which is way better than anyone else on the market, not sure how they are going to get prices so low.

Not sure what to make of the 'optional' garages.

Will anyone use the courtyard??

[civitas]

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen.

I don't care for the parking along 1st Street. And why dont' any units face 1st? There are only east and west facing units, no north or south. The yards are so small they might as well not even bother. This of course calls for the destruction of the church as well.

I'd rather see more of a solid street wall all the way around. Except maybe on 2nd because it faces the freeway and would be the best place to put utilitarian things like driveways and dumpsters and such. And again, I'd like to see them build around the church. I'd rather they didn't even incorporate it into the development in any way. Sure, redevelopment may be a good way to preserve it, but it kind of beotchizes the original structure as well. Ideally the church can be preserved as is and remain a functioning church.

-nb

I agree. Units need to face 1st in a way that encourages the development of the south side of the street.

The building at 1st and Alabama is interesting but overpriced.

[GaryP]

They would save a ton of space by attaching the garages. It looks like people would lose 10' or so of green space between their garage and house, but IMO that space could be better utilized somewhere else.

How do you put your own drawing together so quickly civitas?

[designcritic]

I agree. Units need to face 1st in a way that encourages the development of the south side of the street.

I agree. Your idea is much better.

[civitas]

How do you put your own drawing together so quickly civitas?

Photoshop cut and paste (fueled by an expresso at the Bitter End).

[Veloise]

Zeiser & Zalar really ought to be paying us for our consulting services! Next we'll be surveying the neighbors and providing demographic data, tavern visit frequencies, net present value...

[GRDadof3]

Photoshop cut and paste (fueled by an expresso at the Bitter End).

Can you add some balconies to the Alabama Bldg civitas? That would make it complete (oh and a new roof that is now almost caving in). I like your site plan better, and also like the fact that you broke up that LONG North/South courtyard. I don't know whether people would prefer a little green space between their townhouse and garage (maybe for a small lanai/garden area) or a larger common park area? A common BBQ area would be great.

On another note, the elevation style would look great mixed with the current church :

[dbrok]

On another note, the elevation style would look great mixed with the current church :

Yeah, it almost looks like the church could have been a bit of inspiration for the design.

[Veloise]

Yeah, it almost looks like the church could have been a bit of inspiration for the design.

Mebbe the Z-men were planning to recycle some brick.

[mpchicago]

I like the overall look of these townhomes. I however would hate to see the church torn down....It's a very attractive church.

[Allison Slater]

Civitas' layout could easilly reproduce this look:

Whereas the original would not. I think I really like the layout civitas has.

[torgo]

I like the look of the buildings, but I agree about the other points regarding building orientation. That little courtyard in the middle of the block just screams "GVSU Laker Village Apartments". Not quite what we are going for. I am also very happy to see the parking tucked back inside the block, away from the street.

[joeDowntown]

Here Here... I see absolutely no reason to tear down the church. As I said, churches can make some of the coolest living spaces. I really hope the keep the church! Save that damn church!

On another note, the elevation style would look great mixed with the current church :

[torgo]

Here Here... I see absolutely no reason to tear down the church. As I said, churches can make some of the coolest living spaces. I really hope the keep the church! Save that damn church!

Ever been to clutch cargo's in Pontiac? That's an old church. Now they hold death metal concerts there.

[Prankster]

Ever been to clutch cargo's in Pontiac? That's an old church. Now they hold death metal concerts there.

There is a former church in the strip district of Pittsburgh that is now a brewery/restaurant. There are many uses for these well built old structures.

[civitas]

Ever been to clutch cargo's in Pontiac? That's an old church. Now they hold death metal concerts there.

Somehow I can't picture that use as a neighborhood amenity.

Hopefully without sparking a debate about religion, I will comment that neighborhood churches have historically been a stabilizing influence on their neighborhoods over long periods of time. Some of these churches have weathered the decline of a neighborhood and have stayed to play a major role is its rebuilding. In that context I would be much more concerned about that church if it was the only church in the area. It isn't.

I have toured the church and know that the developer would have to significantly subsidize that building to save it (it would cost more to save than it could produce in value). He won't, therefore, volunteer to keep the church. And, if keeping it hurts the potential success of the bigger scheme, I can't come up with a reason to make him keep it. I hate these kinds of decisions, but while the HPC might focus of just that building, we need to focus on the much bigger opportunity to change the whole block and maybe have to let the church go.

Having said that, I also think the city should squeeze every ounce of quality out of this development before they even let on that they might consider letting him tear down the church. The church's last contribution to its neighborhood could be as a huge bargaining chip in the approval process.

[Nitro]

I don't get the whole Tabula Rasa thing. Why do we have to wipe out an entire block of existing urban fabric to do this? It makes me cringe. That's Detroit style development.

Not to mention the thought of demolishing that church turns my stomach.

GR Town Planner, you've been pretty silent on this to date. I know you've got to be having some internal conflicts with this. What's the scoop?