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Waterfall Shoppes

GRM76

By GRM76
in Grand Rapids

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Veloise City

Veloise

Posted
Posted
At least Greenridge Shopping Center has shops with some brick on them, the nice tree-lined boulevard as you come in, and the signage doesn't look like it was done by my 6 year old (I think even my 6 year old could do a better job).

I mean, what is this? Is that sign made of the same white plastic that those cheap patio chairs are made of? :rofl:

WP-9.jpg

I agree Northender, utter disgrace is right.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

Posted
Posted
It may be auto-centric, but it's not friendly to autos. I dread the once a month or so visit to Costco (can't wait to get this last kid out of diapers!). I mean, you turn in off 28th and it's reminds me of the time Kramer used black paint to reconfigure his adopted mile of freeway from four lanes to two. Sorry this lane turns right, fooled you, this lane now also turns right, wait, use this what appears to be left turn lane to actually go straight thru, watch out, these people have to stop but you don't, now they don't, sorry you can't turn into that narrow driveway opening until that person waiting to turn left moves and the bumper to bumper traffic isn't letting them out so... I swear, you couldn't design a better opportunity for back ups and fender benders if you tried. Sam Bernstein should just pay someone to stand out there with a box of neck braces and a stack of business cards.

:angry:

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Allison Slater Town

Allison Slater

Posted
Posted

So now the state is going to spend more of my tax money to tear up our lawns for sidewalks just so the poor people already living on assistance can have a nice place to walk, instead of spending it on fixing potholes in roads for my Hummer? We don't need no steenkin' sidewalks!

~chuckle~

But yes, I hope this brings forth some good results.. especially on 28th Street. Even without a wheelchair.. just on bike it's really horrible. I biked down 28th once (not in the roadway, heavens no) and at one point was forced into the road because the brush next to the sidewalk-less road came all the way to the curb.

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wingbert Burg

wingbert

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Posted

I think a good rule of thumb is that if enough people are walking/jogging/biking to wear a path through the grass and weeds... you need a sidewalk there. Heck, I'd bike to work as well as other places except for one minor detail, I rather enjoy living.

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Explorer55 Whistle-Stop

Explorer55

Posted
Posted

It's been a while since I spoke up here, but this topic I can't ignore. Do you know if the MPO (Grand Valley Metro Council) has a regional pedestrian plan, even a policy that requires any construction/reconstruction of federal-aid roads (and that's more than state highways) must include sidewalks/pedestrian facilities? Does MDOT have a such a policy? Is it enforced? (Probably not from what I've seen.) A regional plan should look at areas that lack pedestrian facitilities, identify where they are needed first and foremost and where safety and access can be improved. A plan should also consider the demand (existing or potential) for pedestrian movement and coordinate the plan with "Safe Routes to Schools", projects to reduce emissions for AQ purposes, and to land use or transit plans that support or serve denser, mixed used development.

"Ordinary" federal transportation funds can be used to fund sidewalks. The GVMC has control over certain STP funds and can use those to build sidewalks (hopefully using a regional plan/policy as a guide). Congestion Mitigation/Air Quality and Transportation Enhancement funds are often used for that purpose in around the country. Actually, the US DOT has a policy that requires sidewalks be included in federal-aid projects, except along Interstates, other places pedestrians are prohibited, and when providing sidewalks would be impossible for various, but well substantiated reasons. There is no reason for a community/region to wait for special funds or earmarks or any other special funding to provide sidewalks, if the member jurisdictions want to do so, and in many instances, they are required to do so. While special grants can be useful, a community should not depend upon those alone or what can be done through private developers as the construct their projects.

There, I said my piece. I hope this is usefull if anyone wants to bring this issue up with certain parties.

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Veloise City

Veloise

Posted
Posted
It's been a while since I spoke up here, but this topic I can't ignore. Do you know if the MPO (Grand Valley Metro Council) has a regional pedestrian plan, even a policy that requires any construction/reconstruction of federal-aid roads (and that's more than state highways) must include sidewalks/pedestrian facilities?
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Allison Slater Town

Allison Slater

Posted
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From what I understand, Cascade Township does not provide any funding to ITP and is not part of the partnership, thus it does not receive any service. Any routes which go outside the areas within the pertnership are being funded privately. The GVSU buses are being funded by GVSU for each revenue mile outside Walker, same with Davenport and the Davenport bus.

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Raildudes dad Hamlet

Raildudes dad

Posted
Posted
Sure do. I was on their committee when I worked DT. The planner running it, Chris Dingman, had a much more global view than even The Other Bicyclist, who claimed, "no one wants to ride or walk on 28th Street." Chris pointed out that there are foot trails worn in the grass and mud, ITP stops consisting of a sign on a pole adjacent to a worn area in the shade, and other tell-tale signs of pedestrian activity despite the lack of provision therefore.

ETA: L@@K! Post 18, more than two years ago!

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...st&p=533610

Part of The Waterfall Story is: private property. It's been developed piecemeal. And Cascade Twp, unlike my favorite city, does not require that sidewalks be installed on all new projects. So even if M-DOT wanted all sorts of wiz-bang ped xings and facilities, getting from Bob Evans (a long-existing use) to Staples cannot be stipulated.

Not long ago I had a conversation with a Cascade planning official. He joked, "it was awarded to the lowest bidder." I am not sure of the back-story on why ITP can't service the Target/Costco; perhaps someone on here knows.

As previously stated, this is in the area of my 9 to 5 habitat. Every time I venture out to M@C, I see people walking or pedaling along that stretch of 28th Street (which makes the Waterfall area look like a playground in comparison). Not using a car should be easier, and safe.

(standard infernal combustion engine diatribe)

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fotoman311 Burg

fotoman311

Posted
Posted
It's been a while since I spoke up here, but this topic I can't ignore. Do you know if the MPO (Grand Valley Metro Council) has a regional pedestrian plan, even a policy that requires any construction/reconstruction of federal-aid roads (and that's more than state highways) must include sidewalks/pedestrian facilities? Does MDOT have a such a policy? Is it enforced? (Probably not from what I've seen.) A regional plan should look at areas that lack pedestrian facitilities, identify where they are needed first and foremost and where safety and access can be improved. A plan should also consider the demand (existing or potential) for pedestrian movement and coordinate the plan with "Safe Routes to Schools", projects to reduce emissions for AQ purposes, and to land use or transit plans that support or serve denser, mixed used development.

"Ordinary" federal transportation funds can be used to fund sidewalks. The GVMC has control over certain STP funds and can use those to build sidewalks (hopefully using a regional plan/policy as a guide). Congestion Mitigation/Air Quality and Transportation Enhancement funds are often used for that purpose in around the country. Actually, the US DOT has a policy that requires sidewalks be included in federal-aid projects, except along Interstates, other places pedestrians are prohibited, and when providing sidewalks would be impossible for various, but well substantiated reasons. There is no reason for a community/region to wait for special funds or earmarks or any other special funding to provide sidewalks, if the member jurisdictions want to do so, and in many instances, they are required to do so. While special grants can be useful, a community should not depend upon those alone or what can be done through private developers as the construct their projects.

There, I said my piece. I hope this is usefull if anyone wants to bring this issue up with certain parties.

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Explorer55 Whistle-Stop

Explorer55

Posted
Posted

To follow up on what I said and to respond to subsequent discusssions:

1) the GVMC non-motorized plan appears to be a 2 plus year old "draft" plan. It's time for them to finish it up (maybe revise to identify priority projects, "gap filling" especially, and to take into account a growing emphasis on non-motorized facilities planning in the transportation planning process.

2) the plan should have more than the "hope" to guide the development of bike and ped facilities and programs. GVMC is the MPO, it has access to federal dollars, it can set goals, policies, criteria for project selection, it has a mandate to address the needs of non-motorized travelers, it should be making it easier and safer for more to people to choose to travel by modes other than single occupant vehicles. Against the cost of building and maintaining highways and transit projects, the cost to build a few sidewalks here and there is miniscule, and yet can be a big boost to addressing total transportation needs. This talk that sidewalks are too expensive is just a cop-out. They can hold a bake sale, if need be!!

3) 28th St. is a state highway. I assume that the state has some sort of standards for sidewalks along its highways (at least within the ROW). If not, it should get some. Do you know that every State DOT has a designated bike/ped person on staff? If you don't know, find out who that is and contact him/her. Talk about your concerns. It's one thing not to provide any sidewalks at all, but to allow "sidewalks" that are half-baked, providing little real access at all is a joke and a waste of money.

4) Bring these shortfalls to the attention of the GVMC, MDOT and if necessary, to the attention of the federal agencies that oversee the transportation planning process. At least, at the next transportation management area planning certification review for the Grand Rapids metro area, attend the public listening session and/or provide written comments and better yet, the pictures of the "sidewalks" near the Waterfall Shoppes. I'm sure you could find some other examples around the metro area as to what NOT to do in terms of providing (or not) sidewalks and bikeways. Issues concerning Americans with Disabilities Acts could also come into play here, as well as Title VI/Environmental Justice requirements.

5) Btw, TMA planning certifications reviews take place every four years. Call the GVMC or check the website to find when the next one is due. If you don't want to wait that long, attend other public meetings of the GVMC, especially when the members (technical and/or policy) are discussing a new plan or TIP development (don't wait until they are ready to adopt a final one) and speak up! You might want to bug the Cascade township commissioners, too. They take such great pride in the walkways around the township that the township constucted, I would think they'd want to augment that pride with a good, overall system of walkways.

So if you want to make sure the debacle of the "sidewalks" near the Waterfall Shoppes doesn't happen again somewhere else, you need to make a splash!!!

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Allison Slater Town

Allison Slater

Posted
Posted

I suppose if cops start telling us to get off the road, we can.. a massive amount of people walking along 28th asking for sidewalks would still get some attention. And, if we're at the guard rail or the stubburn brush, we'll simply have to tell them we can't get off the road. Maybe march into some retail area driveways which have no sidewalks as well, like Waterfall Shoppes.

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