Downtown Developments (South of Calhoun)

[Spartan]

This thread is dedicated to new projects and developments in downtown Charleston that area located SOUTH of Calhoun Street. This includes the neighborhoods of Harleston Village, the French Quarter, Ansonborough and South of Broad.

[Spartan]

Please contribute to this thread! I know there are lots of projects under way or planned in this area.

[knightrider162]

This a project I stumbled upon... Concord at cumberland.. seems like infill close to the battery @ five stories.. should be noteable

More Info

Edited August 16, 2006 by knightrider162

[Charles Pearson]

gorgeous! Now this is what Charleston can do & how the City should look! If I were there, I would contribute...but I am unfortunately 3,000 miles out of Charleston... on the left coast...

Edited August 16, 2006 by Zahc

[Spartan]

Those are indeed nice. They are right next to waterfront park. I think those are already well under construction. It looks like they will have street level retail.

[lsgchas]

Those are indeed nice. They are right next to waterfront park. I think those are already well under construction. It looks like they will have street level retail.

^A really ugly parking garage stood on the site of this project. I wish I had a picture of the old garage. Its facade was 100% cast concrete that had dangerous looking cracks and was practically black with years of caked on oil and grime. Even replacing it with a trailer park would have been a big improvement. These condos look really nice.

[Spartan]

Lol, I dont konw if it was THAT bad, but it was definitely an eyesore!

This is a major improvement to be sure.

[lsgchas]

Lol, I dont konw if it was THAT bad, but it was definitely an eyesore!

Maybe I'm memory's exagerrating how ugly it was, but it was bad. Real BAD. I think it's good that we're talking about a condo project that everyone seems to like. Most of the developments we discuss are controversial, to say the least. It just reminds me that there are dozens of developments in the Charleston area that are perfectly fine, and will be beneficial to the city. It also shows how many projects go forward without any opposition. The qualities these developments seem to share are attractive architecture and appropriate location. Pretty simple. Hopefully we'll see more of these projects and less of the controversial kind.

Edited August 17, 2006 by lsgchas

[Spartan]

Its the non controversial ones that slip by us here on UP.

The interesting thing about developments in downtown charleston's many neighborhoods is that they don't make the news unless they are large in terms of area, scale, or have a great deal of controversey. These places on the waterfront are reclaiming land from industrial uses like warehouses and docks, so most people don't have a problem with it.

Charleston is just an interesting place, and its hard to keep track of how many things are going on downtown, because there is so much of it... more than any other city in SC.

[Charles Pearson]

This thread is dedicated to new projects and developments in downtown Charleston that area located SOUTH of Calhoun Street. This includes the neighborhoods of Harleston Village, the French Quarter, Ansonborough and South of Broad.

A new Wine Bar to be called "Social" is set to open downtown in October at 188 East Bay Street, former home of Charleston Chops...The 4,500-square-foot building has been totally gutted and will be outfitted with contemporary furnishings. The owner is Brad Ball, son of the owners of popular Poogan's Porch, one of my favorite restaurants in Charleston. 25-year old Ball studied at NY's French Culinary Institute & plans to invest $1 million into Social that will seat 75 in the dining room, 40 at the bar, and the wine cellar will be stocked with 4,000 bottles of wine, inlcuding a 1989 German Riesling Auslese and a 1991 Vega Sicilia Unico, a Spanish red...

I'm a big fan of wine and champaign bars...

Scroll to complete article: Wine bar to open on East Bay Street

[Charleston native]

Below is a link to an interesting story of how Chas Place literally transformed lower DT or "South of Calhoun". The article highlights how controversial it was (this should be appropriate considering what you guys were discussing earlier on this thread), the difficult beginnings of it, and the economic transformation it has brought to the DT area. I take issue with McIntosh's comments on how Chas "sold its soul for money". This preservationist provided extreme obstruction to the project, so his comments are no surprise. However, what would he have preferred if Chas Place was not built? The cess pool that used to exist there?!?!

Charleston Place - 20 Years

Edited August 28, 2006 by Charleston native

[krazeeboi]

This is very interesting, because the only Charleston I'm familiar with is the one that now exists. It's very hard for me to imagine a dead, dull downtown Charleston. I had no idea Charleston Place hotel was downtown's magic bullet. Good stuff.

[Spartan]

This is very interesting, because the only Charleston I'm familiar with is the one that now exists. It's very hard for me to imagine a dead, dull downtown Charleston. I had no idea Charleston Place hotel was downtown's magic bullet. Good stuff.

While I have no direct experience with the old Charleston, I have heard speaches from Mayor Riley indicating how crappy it was. Ive seen pictures of the Charleston Place site. it was a mostly vacant lot with a few nondescript buildings on it. The Market was in shambles. You generally didnt go to downtown Charleston. Some people like to hail these days as Charleston's "cool" days I think. But I would rather see the vibrant place it si today than what I saw from those pictures. What if Lower King looked today like Upper King looks today (or 3 years ago!). Perhaps its not a funky or whatever, but IMO its a much more attractive city than it used to be (so far as I can tell).

[Mr.Marc]

A new Wine Bar to be called "Social" is set to open downtown in October at 188 East Bay Street, former home of Charleston Chops...The 4,500-square-foot building has been totally gutted and will be outfitted with contemporary furnishings. The owner is Brad Ball, son of the owners of popular Poogan's Porch, one of my favorite restaurants in Charleston. 25-year old Ball studied at NY's French Culinary Institute & plans to invest $1 million into Social that will seat 75 in the dining room, 40 at the bar, and the wine cellar will be stocked with 4,000 bottles of wine, inlcuding a 1989 German Riesling Auslese and a 1991 Vega Sicilia Unico, a Spanish red...

I'm a big fan of wine and champaign bars...

Scroll to complete article: Wine bar to open on East Bay Street

Very nice

He sure is young to own a restaurant of that caliber.

[vicupstate]

Below is a link to an interesting story of how Chas Place literally transformed lower DT or "South of Calhoun". The article highlights how controversial it was (this should be appropriate considering what you guys were discussing earlier on this thread), the difficult beginnings of it, and the economic transformation it has brought to the DT area. I take issue with McIntosh's comments on how Chas "sold its soul for money". This preservationist provided extreme obstruction to the project, so his comments are no surprise. However, what would he have preferred if Chas Place was not built? The cess pool that used to exist there?!?!

Charleston Place - 20 Years

Thanks for posting, I missed this article somehow.

I remember the controversy. It wasn't unwarrantied. The project as it exists today, is much better than what was originally proposed. 14 stories built up to the street would have transformed the skyline and overwhelmed the 2-3 story store facades that line King and Meeting Streets. Just as controversial was the demolition that was planned for a long row of commercial buildings fronting on Meeting Street. A parking garage was to have taken their place.

Over the course of the years and the lawsuits, the garage was moved to the interior of the site, the Meeting Street buildings, all of which were historic, were preserved, and the hotel itself was re-configured to have 8 stories that are set back from the street [only four stories directly front the sidewalk]. The current project fills-in the block without overwhelming the landscape with a huge presence [see photo]. Riley himself has stated that the end result was better than the original proposal.

The end result was the project transformed the downtown area as intended, the preservationists gave the project it's most prestigious award, the historic Meeting Street buildings were saved, the hotel has been successful, Riley earned a reputation as a visionary, and Charleston was 'put on the map'.

Some might argue that it wasn't worth 'impeding development' to save the Meeting Street structures, but if that demolition had taken place, and the height restriction ignored, what would prevent that from spreading? Charleston historic buildings and human scale are parts of it's delicate urban fabric.

Columbia has an interesting anologous story to this one. When the Palmetto Center (Scana HQ on Main Street) was proposed, the plan was to demolish the historic (and beautiful) Palmetto Building and use that land as well. Preservationists fought the idea, and the Palmetto Center was reconfigured to not include that site. Now the Palmetto building is being restored into a ritzy historic Hotel.

If both sides (developers and preservationists) are willing to be reasonable, and work to find common ground, then a win-win situation can result. I submit the Clemson Architectural Center as further evidence.

As for Mr. McIntosh, he is obviously an extremist. Taking such positions are counter-productive, just as the threats to sell the site to a motel chain [made by the original developer] were as well.

Edited September 2, 2006 by vicupstate

[krazeeboi]

Great points vic. What about the historic Hotel Poinsett in Greenville that now houses the Westin? Any story behind that one?

[Spartan]

Thats an interesting perspective. I think the end result sounds better than the original plan. I guess it is good that the preservationists prevailed in this case.

There is a parallel in Spartanburg's long term Renaissance Project that did not turn out as well... All of Spartanburg's historic hotels have been demolished over the years except for one, and it is not very large. The Hotel Franklin was imploded to make way for our 17 story BB&T (Dennys) tower (even though it was on the other end of the site) and plaza. 3 or 4 small historic buildings were also demolished to make way for an urban park. Perhaps if Spartanburg had been proactive like Charleston it could have saved that historic hotel and those other small buidings.

Its not a total loss though, as Denny's Plaza is used for several festivals and other gatherings throughout the year. The park that they buit looks nice, though it is not used as much as it should be.

[vicupstate]

Great points vic. What about the historic Hotel Poinsett in Greenville that now houses the Westin? Any story behind that one?

From what I have read, there had been talk of demolishing the Poinsett, before it had been renovated, but I don't think it got past the talking stage.

I did find out, while the Hotel was undergoing renovation, that my favorite Aunt had spent her Honeymoon there. That gave me a sentimental reason for liking the project in addition to the aesthetic ones, I already held.

However, everyone today regrets that the Old Greenville City Hall was razed. The city actually tried to get a replica built of it, but no one answered the RFP. The developers all wanted something larger on that site.

[digital_sandlapper]

Thanks for posting, I missed this article somehow.

I remember the controversy. It wasn't unwarrantied. The project as it exists today, is much better than what was originally proposed. 14 stories built up to the street would have transformed the skyline and overwhelmed the 2-3 story store facades that line King and Meeting Streets. Just as controversial was the demolition that was planned for a long row of commercial buildings fronting on Meeting Street. A parking garage was to have taken their place.

Over the course of the years and the lawsuits, the garage was moved to the interior of the site, the Meeting Street buildings, all of which were historic, were preserved, and the hotel itself was re-configured to have 8 stories that are set back from the street [only four stories directly front the sidewalk]. The current project fills-in the block without overwhelming the landscape with a huge presence [see photo]. Riley himself has stated that the end result was better than the original proposal.

The end result was the project transformed the downtown area as intended, the preservationists gave the project it's most prestigious award, the historic Meeting Street buildings were saved, the hotel has been successful, Riley earned a reputation as a visionary, and Charleston was 'put on the map'.

Some might argue that it wasn't worth 'impeding development' to save the Meeting Street structures, but if that demolition had taken place, and the height restriction ignored, what would prevent that from spreading? Charleston historic buildings and human scale are parts of it's delicate urban fabric.

Columbia has an interesting anologous story to this one. When the Palmetto Center (Scana HQ on Main Street) was proposed, the plan was to demolish the historic (and beautiful) Palmetto Building and use that land as well. Preservationists fought the idea, and the Palmetto Center was reconfigured to not include that site. Now the Palmetto building is being restored into a ritzy historic Hotel.

If both sides (developers and preservationists) are willing to be reasonable, and work to find common ground, then a win-win situation can result. I submit the Clemson Architectural Center as further evidence.

As for Mr. McIntosh, he is obviously an extremist. Taking such positions are counter-productive, just as the threats to sell the site to a motel chain [made by the original developer] were as well.

I can

[Spartan]

I am surprised noboday has mentioned CofC's new basketball arena:

article

It will be built in the tennis courts right next to the current stadium, and its capactiy will be 5000. It should be a solid improvement over the glorified gymnasium they have now. I was in the Charleston area yesterday, brifely, and I saw the rendering on one of the news stations down there. It looks really good.

BTW I had heard that about Meeting Street somewhere before. I hear so much stuff in passing though, so I try to take what I hear with a grain of salt until it can be verified.

[krazeeboi]

Good news indeed. CofC's old gym indeed looked like a mere step above a HS gym. Winthrop's Coliseum seats 5000, so it seems feasible for CofC.

[803metlife]

This a project I stumbled upon... Concord at cumberland.. seems like infill close to the battery @ five stories.. should be noteable

More Info

Those are very nice. I don't know why Charleston projects always look nicer than any project of the big 3.

[Spartan]

Charleston has the most advanced design requirements of any SC city. It has to look good and it has to fit in with the rest of downtown.

[Mr.Marc]

Charleston has the most advanced design requirements of any SC city. It has to look good and it has to fit in with the rest of downtown.

Indeed it does. Even the new outlet looks like it was a well thought out process by its architects.

[Charleston native]

I am surprised noboday has mentioned CofC's new basketball arena:

article

It will be built in the tennis courts right next to the current stadium, and its capactiy will be 5000. It should be a solid improvement over the glorified gymnasium they have now. I was in the Charleston area yesterday, brifely, and I saw the rendering on one of the news stations down there. It looks really good.

BTW I had heard that about Meeting Street somewhere before. I hear so much stuff in passing though, so I try to take what I hear with a grain of salt until it can be verified.

Thanks for posting that, Spartan. I've been so busy with school and work, I really haven't had time to get these articles posted. Finally, some good news with DT that I've been waiting for. This arena has almost taken a decade to be planned and bidded on, so hopefully construction will start real soon. It will be a much-needed improvement for the gym C of C has now...it will also enhance that part of Meeting Street, for certain.