Creative Village

[uncreativeusername]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

What CV essentially did was open up Parramore to residential, negating the agreement between the Frederick administration and the black community.

^May I request a history lesson on this one? 

[JFW657]

43 minutes ago, tc01 said:

Why don’t they implement more creative art designs or unique light fixtures? 

$$$$$$$$$ 

[AmIReal]

12 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Looks like the same old gar-bahge to me.

But what about their approach to "design the building "within a single architectural vocabulary" indicative of the Art Moderne movement, which emphasizes strong horizontal lines with a white color palette and minimal use of secondary colors." 

And the use of "Vertical elements are used as punctuation but remain subservient to horizontal elements," Leibmann wrote in his submission. A series of "origami-like" vertical piers that bisect the horizontal balconies provide that punctuation."

Creative Village Development Review Committee member JP Weesner said the unique lattice work and the shadow effect was "by far one of the coolest things I've seen and will create an awesome pedestrian experience,"

So there... I don't see it either, but I guess they do.

Beauty, meet beholder.

I agree with dculey and spenser that opening of additional land allows developers to cost effectively build horizontally, but I disagree this was a breach of a long standing agreement with the black community. The vast majority of this development was the old Amway Center. 

Mayor Frederick was (is) a great guy, but I'm not sure the City feels (or should feel) bound by his handshake agreement from the 1980s.

[JFW657]

30 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

But what about their approach to "design the building "within a single architectural vocabulary" indicative of the Art Moderne movement, which emphasizes strong horizontal lines with a white color palette and minimal use of secondary colors." 

And the use of "Vertical elements are used as punctuation but remain subservient to horizontal elements," Leibmann wrote in his submission. A series of "origami-like" vertical piers that bisect the horizontal balconies provide that punctuation."

Creative Village Development Review Committee member JP Weesner said the unique lattice work and the shadow effect was "by far one of the coolest things I've seen and will create an awesome pedestrian experience,"

So there... I don't see it either, but I guess they do.

Beauty, meet beholder.

Sounds like so much happy horse.... droppings, to me.

The building looks virtually indistinguishable from 420 & 520 E. Church, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....

Blah and bleh.

[spenser1058]

5 hours ago, AmIReal said:

But what about their approach to "design the building "within a single architectural vocabulary" indicative of the Art Moderne movement, which emphasizes strong horizontal lines with a white color palette and minimal use of secondary colors." 

And the use of "Vertical elements are used as punctuation but remain subservient to horizontal elements," Leibmann wrote in his submission. A series of "origami-like" vertical piers that bisect the horizontal balconies provide that punctuation."

Creative Village Development Review Committee member JP Weesner said the unique lattice work and the shadow effect was "by far one of the coolest things I've seen and will create an awesome pedestrian experience,"

So there... I don't see it either, but I guess they do.

Beauty, meet beholder.

I agree with dculey and spenser that opening of additional land allows developers to cost effectively build horizontally, but I disagree this was a breach of a long standing agreement with the black community. The vast majority of this development was the old Amway Center. 

Mayor Frederick was (is) a great guy, but I'm not sure the City feels (or should feel) bound by his handshake agreement from the 1980s.

The city was not bound by the agreement but the upshot was they killed one of the main goals: to encourage density and verticality in the core. The result: hello, squatty.

For those who don’t mind that,then everything’s fine. All of the carping here about our downtown, however, exists for a reason.

The genius of what Mayor Bill, Jake Stuart and city staffers accomplished is multifaceted. First, you have to recognize just how dead not only Downtown was but the surrounding neighborhoods were also  at risk.

Orlando’s black community, which had managed to avoid much of the violence that ripped apart so many Southern cities, found its voice by the 1980’s. If the white part of downtown was to be restored under an energetic new mayor, they wanted Parramore and Callahan to be included as well.

Gay folks (it would be a stretch to call it a community at that point), especially after the Grand Central (a gay bar at the old San Juan Hotel downtown) burned under suspicious circumstances, began to envision a neighborhood to call their own on the north and east side of Eola. They were joined by straight folks who recognized just how unique the bungalow communities there, as well as places like Lake Davis/Cherokee could be. New opportunities in preservation made possible by the Reagan administration and Congress began to make the idea viable.

Recognizing the potential for a win-win, the Frederick administration began to tighten up just where development could occur. They saved Eola Heights and Thornton Park as well as Lake Davis/Cherokee pretty easily with the zoning.

Parramore had never really had any zoning in the days of segregation and thus was much further gone, with small industrial sitting side by side with churches and badly built apartments.

The successful business district of Parramore began to decline as soon as equal housing legislation came along and those who could move anywhere they wanted for the first time did.

The black neighborhoods had borne the brunt of divided neighborhoods caused by I4 and the East-West. Black leaders wanted to be assured that wouldn’t happen again. They also wanted to make sure gentrification didn’t push out the remaining residents of the area.

The leverage they held was John Young Parkway. Mayor Bill desperately wanted to complete the “missing piece” between Old Winter Garden Road and I4 but all the black community saw was another highway being plowed through their neighborhoods. 

In light of recent unrest in Miami’s Liberty City and a smaller violent protest in Orlando, there was the potential for a huge problem.

The agreement was to leave Parramore and Callahan for organic growth with JYP being built with medians, landscaping, etc. to minimize disruption.

Meanwhile, the old fairgrounds would be the home of a hotel and Expo Centre for meetings, the Arena and a couple of parking garages. Other than that, it would remain mostly open space as it had been for decades.

Basically, it worked. Developers howled about the restrictions but the new residents east of I4 were ecstatic. West of I4, nothing much changed for Parramore residents but black leaders proclaimed they had held the line against incursion and got a deal for JYP. City Hall promised they’d work on affordable housing and other options.

North of Orange Avenue, however, didn’t pan out. Olympia Place, the Radisson and Gateway Center were all built and it was assumed there would be more of the same. However, Olympia and York crashed and burned in Eddie Campeau’s retail debacle and Olympia Place 2 was never built. Coupled with mini-recessions in 1991-92, 2001 and the Great Recession of 2008 and what we now call midtown died. When development resumed after the Great Recession, it was mid-level apartments instead of office towers.

The case may be made that the growth restrictions should have held off growth north of Colonial until later but that’s hindsight.

Glenda Hood continued to honor the Parramore agreement but was soon inundated with the Baldwin Park issue and the light rail imbroglio and Parramore sat as it had for years.

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, Carolina-Florida Properties and others started buying up land west of I-4 and reselling it at a healthy profit for the new federal courthouse. Instead of encouraging organic residential growth like we saw in Eola and other white neighborhoods, the new Dyer administration was all about big projects to supposedly save Parramore.

That, of course, was fine with the land bankers who stood to profit from land sales.

The bottom line is Parramore is still not a particularly desirable place to live and a lot more land became available than should have, resulting in more horizontal growth than was originally desired.

There’s more to the story but this post is already way too long. Obviously, some good things happened: the venues got built (albeit much later than promised in the case of DPAC), downtown’s still growing and UCF/Valencia is coming downtown. 

Given that Buddy said the test of his success as Mayor was Parramore, you can decide if the deals he made were worthwhile. Apparently, given the token opposition in this November’s election, Orlandoans are content with what we’ve got. It’s probably significant to note that his chief opposition is Commissioner Sam  Ings, an African-American who represents areas west of I4.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Duplicated in error.

Edited May 16, 2019 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

I never knew about Grand Central, very interesting. Maybe you could share more stories about Orlando's lgbt scene in the Coffee House in time for pride month?

[spenser1058]

25 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

I never knew about Grand Central, very interesting. Maybe you could share more stories about Orlando's lgbt scene in the Coffee House in time for pride month?

I added a thread up in the Coffee House as you suggest - great idea! Back when so much of this was happening I was active on the political side and less with the day—to-day activities in the burgeoning gay community.

While I knew and periodically worked with most of those active back then, I was never fabulous enough to be a star player like Billy Manes and David Bain.

During PRIDE week in October, the OC Regional History Center works closely with the community to feature LGBTQ+ exhibits at their museum. Hopefully, that will continue - it’s been a great opportunity for so many to learn about us and also to show inclusion for us in the fabric of the region.

Edited May 16, 2019 by spenser1058

[tc01]

 

[dcluley98]

Yeah, this is pretty much what we said it was going to be when it was announced. A short/wide bland 6-7 story design similar to 520 but with Mill Creek type design finishes similar to Modera.  Exactly what I expected and also when I said it will be next to break ground after Radius.

Pretty much a given with the footprint of that lot and the developer behind it that it would look about exactly like this. I think we also said that it isn't necessarily BAD for the area, as it fills in an empty lot, provides affordable housing for the CV, and creates a sense of place around the central park/commons area for Creative Village, giving it more of a real "campus" feel. 

As for the design itself, it is as bland as I expected but does have a few minor details, such as the decorative columns that extend through balconies, and some of the recessed/blue vertical areas are angled in to create some visual appeal with the nook they create. Additionally, I like that it has an arcade type feature for the ground floor retail/sidewalk area and real deciduous trees.  That is actually a big plus for pedestrians that should not be overlooked, especially given that this should be built for more of a walking oriented area with it's location in CV and adjacency to the central park/commons space.   

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by dcluley98

[smileguy]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Yeah, this is pretty much what we said it was going to be when it was announced. A short/wide bland 6-7 story design similar to 520 but with Mill Creek type design finishes similar to Modera.  Exactly what I expected and also when I said it will be next to break ground after Radius.

Pretty much a given with the footprint of that lot and the developer behind it that it would look about exactly like this. I think we also said that it isn't necessarily BAD for the area, as it fills in an empty lot, provides affordable housing for the CV, and creates a sense of place around the central park/commons area for Creative Village, giving it more of a real "campus" feel. 

As for the design itself, it is as bland as I expected but does have a few minor details, such as the decorative columns that extend through balconies, and some of the recessed/blue vertical areas are angled in to create some visual appeal with the nook they create. Additionally, I like that it has an arcade type feature for the ground floor retail/sidewalk area and real deciduous trees.  That is actually a big plus for pedestrians that should not be overlooked, especially given that this should be built for more of a walking oriented area with it's location in CV and adjacency to the central park/commons space.   

 

I also appreciate that the parking deck looks to be covered from three sides, which in my opinion provides a tremendous amount of polish to any project. 

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Yeah, this is pretty much what we said it was going to be when it was announced. A short/wide bland 6-7 story design similar to 520 but with Mill Creek type design finishes similar to Modera.  Exactly what I expected and also when I said it will be next to break ground after Radius.

Pretty much a given with the footprint of that lot and the developer behind it that it would look about exactly like this. I think we also said that it isn't necessarily BAD for the area, as it fills in an empty lot, provides affordable housing for the CV, and creates a sense of place around the central park/commons area for Creative Village, giving it more of a real "campus" feel. 

As for the design itself, it is as bland as I expected but does have a few minor details, such as the decorative columns that extend through balconies, and some of the recessed/blue vertical areas are angled in to create some visual appeal with the nook they create. Additionally, I like that it has an arcade type feature for the ground floor retail/sidewalk area and real deciduous trees.  That is actually a big plus for pedestrians that should not be overlooked, especially given that this should be built for more of a walking oriented area with it's location in CV and adjacency to the central park/commons space.   

[smileguy]

43 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

That must be an old rendering.  Didn't you read the description - it's Moderne!

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Ugly, bland, dry, should be 6ft under design.

[ucfpatriot18]

Screenshots from new UCF Downtown promo video.  

[orlandouprise]

Bland Village

[Urban25]

Bland village is coming along 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

From Florida Hospital garage. 

[Uncommon]

On 5/18/2019 at 8:59 AM, ucfpatriot18 said:

Screenshots from new UCF Downtown promo video.  

For some odd reason, I read this as “Screenshots from new UCF Downtown porno video.”

[dcluley98]

That parking lot will be a green commons soon. 

hmmm. . .

Bland? 

Edited May 19, 2019 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

The architect for the UnionWest building is visionary and to be admired. 

Fantastic design and ground-floor planning with growth to be predicted as well as she/he could. 

This should win awards. 

It is amazing and should be lauded! 

Edited May 19, 2019 by dcluley98

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

The architect for the UnionWest building is visionary and to be admired. 

Fantastic design and ground-floor planning with growth to be predicted as well as she/he could. 

This should win awards. 

It is amazing and should be lauded! 

I think the "bland" comment was in reference to the white, seven story Mill Creek shoebox discussed and pictured on the previous page.

As for UW, not a bad design, but hardly great, IMHO.

Nothing particularly "creative" or"village-y" about it or the rest of the buildings going up over there either.

They/we really ought to drop that CV name and just start calling it UCF Downtown. 

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, Uncommon said:

For some odd reason, I read this as “Screenshots from new UCF Downtown porno video.”

I thought the same thing at first glance. 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

One lower quality wide angle and some other shots of Parcel next to the student tower and the educational building.

[AmIReal]

I am absolutely more than fine with how this development looks. Am I thrilled, no. But it more than meets my pretty low expectations. Let's remember the primary use for what is being built is classes and dormitories using government money by way of some private market. In that regard it looks fine. Also, this is not CBD, nor is it a focal point of downtown- can it even be seen from I-4 as visitors pass by. I also think this is not the final outcome for the area- or at least hopefully. This is the UCF/ State College portion of what is hoped to be something bigger. Will bigger come to pass... dunno. But even if not, this is a tremendous addition to a blighted area that seemed to have no other purpose in the foreseeable future.

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 4:49 PM, JFW657 said:

Nothing particularly "creative" or"village-y" about it

I agree on the creative issue, but disagree on the village issue. Maybe a matter of expectations, but given a few thousand young people and places to hang out, I think they'll make their village into what works for them.

Btw, this is the new Amazon building for Crystal City, VA. They have more money than all of our various Gods and they chose to build this... color me bland beige.

https://dc.curbed.com/2019/5/16/18628100/amazons-hq2-crystal-city-national-landing-plans